June 5, 2003, 16:43
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#1
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Emperor
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If Tiananmen Square Happened Today, What Should We Do?
If the Tiananmen Square Massacre happened today - or a similar event - in any country, what should our response be? Should we go to war? Economic sanctions? Nothing?
My answer is that we should voluntarily boycott products from that country, and use the CIA or other means to assassinate those responsible, on the reasoning that defense of another is perfectly moral (provided, of course, that it's not a massive operation costing tons of taxpayer money). That would have been my likely answer to actual Tiananmen Square, too, by the way.
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June 5, 2003, 16:46
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#2
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Emperor
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Why should you stick your nose into internal Chinese policies and actions? (re assasinations)
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June 5, 2003, 16:46
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#3
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Emperor
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Have a few more television cameras there and 24-hour commentary, yeah! 
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June 5, 2003, 16:47
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#4
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Deity
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Sanctions, clearly, and boycott.
And Israeli Mossad DID assasinate those responsible during a similar event...
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June 5, 2003, 16:48
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#5
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Quote:
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Why should you stick your nose into internal Chinese policies and actions?
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Why should the Chinese government be able to commit murder? Or, why should I stick my nose into the affairs between a murderer and a victim?
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June 5, 2003, 16:48
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#6
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Depends if the place this occurs has oil or not... 
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June 5, 2003, 16:49
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#7
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Why would that matter?
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June 5, 2003, 16:49
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#8
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Solver
Sanctions, clearly, and boycott.
And Israeli Mossad DID assasinate those responsible during a similar event...
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The Munchen casualties were Israelis representing Israel, there is a big difference.
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"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.
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June 5, 2003, 16:51
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#9
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Emperor
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DF :
Did you support toppling Saddam's regime?
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June 5, 2003, 16:53
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#10
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Nope, but I would have supported a simple operation to kill Saddam.
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June 5, 2003, 16:54
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#11
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Quote:
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Why would that matter?
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I don't know, but it seems to matter to everyone else.
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June 5, 2003, 16:56
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#12
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King
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The world community would likely play the "worried" role, enact a few sanctions, and that's it. Then Bush would step in and upset the apple cart, and his administration would be accused of making the world a more dangerous place.
Sorry, the cynic in me took over for a moment ...
Gatekeeper
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June 5, 2003, 16:56
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#13
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by David Floyd
Nope, but I would have supported a simple operation to kill Saddam.
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But that wouldnt have been effective. His heirs are as bad as he is/was.
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June 5, 2003, 17:18
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#14
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Deity
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Re: If Tiananmen Square Happened Today, What Should We Do?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by David Floyd
and use the CIA or other means to assassinate those responsible, ... (provided, of course, that it's not a massive operation costing tons of taxpayer money).
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Something doesn't compute here.
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June 5, 2003, 17:38
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#15
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Deity
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Floyd, I thought you said in the other thread that murder is always wrong.
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June 5, 2003, 17:41
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#16
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Yeah, I'd like some elaboration as well, David, because it's been my impression so far that you've been advocating the isolationist "it's their business" stance?
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June 5, 2003, 17:41
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#17
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Quote:
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But that wouldnt have been effective. His heirs are as bad as he is/was.
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If Saddam got killed for what he did, that might have been a deterrant.
DD,
What doesn't compute.
El Awrence,
Murder is indeed always wrong.
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June 5, 2003, 17:42
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#18
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Yeah, I'd like some elaboration as well, David, because it's been my impression so far that you've been advocating the isolationist "it's their business" stance?
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Actually I've moved a bit away from that, on the same reasoning that it's perfectly moral to step in and stop a mugger from robbing an old lady. The key, though, in either case, is that the action to stop the "mugger" must be voluntary - both in terms of finances and actions.
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June 5, 2003, 17:44
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#19
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by David Floyd
DD,
What doesn't compute.
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That you believe killing people can be done on the cheap. We tried that for years with Castro.
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June 5, 2003, 17:45
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#20
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Quote:
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That you believe killing people can be done on the cheap. We tried that for years with Castro.
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It's the not getting caught part that's tough, not the killing part.
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June 5, 2003, 17:47
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#21
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by David Floyd
It's the not getting caught part that's tough, not the killing part.
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Yes. That's where the expensive part comes in.
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June 5, 2003, 17:48
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#22
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Gatekeeper
The world community would likely play the "worried" role, enact a few sanctions, and that's it. Then Bush would step in and upset the apple cart, and his administration would be accused of making the world a more dangerous place.
Sorry, the cynic in me took over for a moment ...
Gatekeeper
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Actually, the Bush admin. would do as much as the original Bush admin. China is too big and too imporant for leaders of the US to do a damn. Plus, since China is a permanent SC Member, the most sanctions states could place on each other would be at the national, local level. But since China is now part of WTO, the type of scope of sanctions placed by any other WTO members is unclear, no, unless mandated by the UNSC, which would not be.
Plus if the Chinese call the people terrorists.....
Sadly, state with power get away with murder.
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June 5, 2003, 17:51
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#23
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Quote:
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Yes. That's why the expense comes in.
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Right, but I don't care about getting caught.
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June 5, 2003, 17:51
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#24
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Moderator
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*sigh* there you go again, DF, sticking your nose into the business of another soveriegn nation's affairs. It's not your business, 'member?
-=Vel=-
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June 5, 2003, 17:52
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#25
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Emperor
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Quote:
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*sigh* there you go again, DF, sticking your nose into the business of another soveriegn nation's affairs. It's not your business, 'member?
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It's my business in the same way that an old lady getting mugged in front of me is my business.
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June 5, 2003, 17:55
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#26
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Deity
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Ah, well, it's just that I've never met a real schizophrenic. 
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June 5, 2003, 17:56
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#27
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El Awrence - is it murder to shoot someone who is trying to shoot you, or another innocent?
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June 5, 2003, 17:57
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#28
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Moderator
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Not your fault, Dave....remember? Don't worry 'bout it.
-=Vel=-
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June 5, 2003, 17:59
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#29
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Quote:
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Not your fault, Dave....remember? Don't worry 'bout it.
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But I have a moral means to prevent it. If I stood aside, it wouldn't be murder - it would be, as someone said earlier, callous indifference, which is also bad. If there is a moral means to prevent immorality, then we should ALWAYS take that means (with the exception that the means involves us dying, in which case it becomes a personal value judgement).
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June 5, 2003, 18:02
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#30
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Moderator
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Does that not represent a rather fundamental shift for you?
I mean, you are practically FAMOUS here on 'poly for the "not our business, not our problem, don't get involved" approach ESPECIALLY when it concerns interfering with a soveriegn nation. NOW you're saying that you're willing to impose your own belief system on what is right and wrong and interfere if you percieve an injustice? D'you not see a shift in that?
For the record, I agree....if I see something that doesn't sit well with me, I'm gonna interfere, whether some folks think I ought to or not. They can gripe at me later.
I'm just....surprised to hear it coming from YOU...welcome to the party...
-=Vel=-
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