I'm Going Conservative

[Static Universe]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Yep, thats a problem on any extreme. Some diehard republicans say we shouldn't give it to anyone who could benefit from it medically speaking.

And many are coming around to supporting the medical aspects as well.

Most of the computers in my sons school are text based, and the "newer" ones are those Apples with the first GUI. The school doesn't have enough money to upgrade to even 8 MB MS-DOS computers, much less computers that these very students will have to work with once they get out of the educational system. The textbooks are 20 years old (including the history books. Meaning theyre currently being taught that the Soviet Union still exists, and that theres a cold war going on). Currently there is an averege of about 40 students per classroom, and there have been 4 instances of knives being drawn at the school. One teacher quit because of it all.

Taking away money isn't quite the answer either

The entire educational system needs to be reformed. Throwing more money at the problem isn't likely to lead to much in the way of improvements in the long term.

Ok, yeah, I agree with you there. I mean, on the flipside, LSD also has a few medical uses......But......

Any illicit drug can be said to have a medicinal use. Heroin, cocaine, and ecstacy were all considered wonder drugs once. Easy availability makes them very, very dangerous. I've met people with marinol prescriptions who pop them for fun.

But then the American image of "land of the free, home of the brave" will be lost, and resentment will increase. Words are just that, words and if turn people away because of that...... I say let everyone in unless we can prove WITHOUT A DOUBT that they have malicious intentions.....

I say where there's a doubt, keep them out.

They've thrown thousands into jailcells after Sep11. Does that count? They are CONCENTRATING them....

They weren't supposed to be here in the first place. What else are we to do with them?

Ignoring you putting words in my mouth....To say that the ENTIRE stockpile was simply shipped away and that we need to invade THEM now is QUITE silly, and I'm surprised that anyone believes it.

I'll agree that WoMDs are a pretext for an issue that cannot be voiced: gaining control of radical Muslim sects who completely hate our values.

[Q Classic]

As a fourth generation American of Irish-Italian extraction, I can say that nobody gave them any handouts. They came here, worked hard, learned the system, and a generations later are solid integrated into the American way of life. They paid their dues.

The riff-raff I speak of anarchists and evil-doers who come to bite the hand of freedom.

on this latter part, i agree with you. i'm second generation, and thus far, the only handouts i've ever gotten are those federal financial aid loans for college. mom has held up her part of the immigrant's bargain, and worked her hands to the bone, and then some, trying to make a life here.
i find myself irritated with those who choose not to work for their success in the united states: those who refuse to learn the lingua fraca (english) from either laziness or foolish knuckleheadedness, and demand everything be translated for them, or those who come here and deliberately leech of the resources while not contributing anything of there own.
however, i find myself with the belief that it is far better to err on the side of liberty, and allow more immigrants in, rather than trying to be more discerning. after all, what is to say that some of the children of these leeches might not prove to be a boon to us rather than a drain?
on the other hand, i don't mind keeping a closer eye on these legal immigrants; illegal immigrants require a closer watch.

I can't speak for your mother. She must have some reason. Ask her and I'm sure she'll tell you.

lol. she does. it's not one i particularly agree with (then again, i despise all political parties, so...), but.

[Dis]

yes, join the darkside

I disagree about marijuana. And I'm pretty much an independant centrist with minor, very minor conservative leanings. I try to remain as objective and balanced as possible.

[Dis]

If someone mentions the word class size again, I'll puke. How is it huge class sizes in the 50's produced such a great generation? hmm?

I spend time in Utah. It isn't that bad. Class size 80, give me a break. If that is the case you will have to raise local taxes and build more schools, don't expect the federal goverment to bail you out.

[Nubclear]

The entire educational system needs to be reformed. Throwing more money at the problem isn't likely to lead to much in the way of improvements in the long term.

I guess this is a subject when we have to agree to disagree.

Any illicit drug can be said to have a medicinal use. Heroin, cocaine, and ecstacy were all considered wonder drugs once. Easy availability makes them very, very dangerous. I've met people with marinol prescriptions who pop them for fun.

Yeah....I know a few people who've thrown away their lives for Lorazapam, cocain, etc.....It's sad really

I say where there's a doubt, keep them out.

Well......I guess were just going to have to disagree

They weren't supposed to be here in the first place. What else are we to do with them?

Charge them with something.

gaining control of radical Muslim sects who completely hate our values.

But you see, invading muslim countries under certain pretexts will only make them hate us more, ESPECIALLY once we find out that the casus belli didn't exist.

You don't twist an arm to get someone on your side, because quite simply they WONT be on your side. If we were to invade either SYRIA or IRAN, it will simply make them hate us even more.

And it will alienate our allies further.

Ya know....At first I was fearful you'd turn into a Ned, but you seem like a very respectable person. Unlike others who accuse opponents of being children You admit when your wrong, not overly agressive, but when you think your not wrong you dont push it but you stand your ground.....

So if you want to continue the debate, I'd be happy to. But I don't find it quite required because....Well, I don't want to press my opinions on you.

So have fun with your new conservative lifestyle

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


...
And BTW.....Most people accept what appeals to them. I don't accept EVERYTHING that far-left wing democrats say.....Banning all guns would be a stupid thing to do,

Works very well in the UK. Can't speak for the US, but as stated elsewhere, if you can't phohibit, regulate.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
and allowing aboritions even during the last days of pregnancy is murder.

That's your opinion. As I'm not female I never comment on abortion. If I had a womb I suspect my thoughts on the matter would be somewhat different.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Republicans aren't always lying

Yes, but having cried "Wolf" we can no longer tell when they aren't, can we?

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
, and pornography.....

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
A lot of people percieve me as ULTRA ULTRA left.....But thats mainly me trolling. In fact, the Iraq war wasn't nearly as bad as I say it is, tax cuts aren't completly HORRIBLE

It took us years to suss out that tax cuts meant little if prices rose to swallow them up.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
, and yes part of the economy is clintons fault. Clinton was not the most desirable of persons (I consider even looking at porn cheating on someone you love....But actually acting it out!!!! )

Yeah, but wait till you get to his age and you'll appreciate that sort of opportunity doesn't happen very often. Which is worse, lying about your relationships or lying about WMD? Both pretty bad - but one of them got US citizens killed and resulted in a huge anti-US backlash. That's part of the price paid for toppling tyrants.

(Personal religious stuff - no comment)

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
But i'm not NOT extreme on certain things. I do think communism is a glorious path

Anyone who doesn't think Commuism isn't an extreme idea hasn't any appreciation of what Communism is best at, ie bloody revolutions.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
, and that the Iraq war was for oil, and that the government IS lying to us presently.

Because I don't completly accept conservatism, but nor do I completly accept liberalism, nor do I completly accept centerism....What am I?

In a mixed up frame of mind? One side rarey has all the right answers - so I guess your scepticism is quite healthy really.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Static Universe

...

When America throws someone in a concentration camp, let me know.
...

From a UK POV (Ok, not that moderate a country that's what Death Row is.

So to us - well, some of us - you've got quite a few concentration camps aimed at eliminating undesiables. NOT that the US is the only (or indeed, the grossest) player in this arena.

What is the US position when it turns out you've turned off the wrong human life? Do you just mutter "oops" and carry on with that policy?

[Nubclear]

See, this is an example of both someone I don't respect and someone just trying to pick an arguement.

Can't speak for the US,

Exactly.

That's your opinion. As I'm not female I never comment on abortion. If I had a womb I suspect my thoughts on the matter would be somewhat different.

Yes, this is my opinion and I have not stated otherwise. And I probably would be thinking differently as well, but you see.....When you let emotions overload your logic, you lose your intellectual integrity.

Yes, but having cried "Wolf" we can no longer tell when they aren't, can we?

I'm siding with the right here....Yet you attack me. Suggesting you are trying to troll, but doing an absoluately dreadful job.

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

I never said otherwise. Yet another dreadful attempt at a troll

but wait till you get to his age

You don't even know how old I am, yet you assume I'm younger.....

Yeah, but wait till you get to his age and you'll appreciate that sort of opportunity doesn't happen very often. Which is worse, lying about your relationships or lying about WMD? Both pretty bad - but one of them got US citizens killed and resulted in a huge anti-US backlash. That's part of the price paid for toppling tyrants.

Another troll. Subtly is key, Cruddy.

And for the record, I believe Bush did a much more serious sin by lying about WoMD........I'm simply pointing out instances where I deviate from the left

Anyone who doesn't think Commuism isn't an extreme idea hasn't any appreciation of what Communism is best at, ie bloody revolutions.

You really must wrap your trolls in something, for your doing a horrible job right now

One side rarey has all the right answers -

So then you are disagreeing with your statement you made earlier? AKA "But I hope you are embracing all of Sonervatism, not just the points that appeal to you.", which does imply that one must accept ALL of conservatism or else they're somehow cast in a negative light

[Cruddy]

Tass, I never troll. I state my beliefs and opinions as they stand. ALWAYS.

That's why I baldy state and boldy go. I'm looking for an argument - because I admit I could be completely wrong about any of my posts!

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
See, this is an example of both someone I don't respect and someone just trying to pick an arguement.

Whether you respect me or not is irrelevent. Yes, I like picking arguments because I like to learn.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Yes, this is my opinion and I have not stated otherwise. And I probably would be thinking differently as well, but you see.....When you let emotions overload your logic, you lose your intellectual integrity.

I didn't mention hormones Tass. I was talking about the ability to bring new life into the world. That's something none of us males can do - so forget the hormone bit and chew on that. What would be your response if you did have that responsibility? You don't know.

Well, I don't know, and I suspect you don't either.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I'm siding with the right here....Yet you attack me. Suggesting you are trying to troll, but doing an absoluately dreadful job.

Who is attacking? Just because I'm siding with the right? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying Tass - I don't attack something because it's right or left, I disagree with a POV if I don't agree with it.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
You don't even know how old I am, yet you assume I'm younger.....

I don't see you denying that you are not at an age where you can criticize Clinton's sexual shennanigans. When you are (and you've been married to someone like Hilary) check those hormones again and see how you feel.

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

And for the record, I believe Bush did a much more serious sin by lying about WoMD........I'm simply pointing out instances where I deviate from the left

Good for you. It would be boring if everyone agreed with each (not to mention short sighted).

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
So then you are disagreeing with your statement you made earlier? AKA "But I hope you are embracing all of Sonervatism, not just the points that appeal to you.", which does imply that one must accept ALL of conservatism or else they're somehow cast in a negative light

The first was ironic and suggested that Static Universe thought about all Conservative policies before declaring himself a Conservative.

Yes, my implication was that someone not embracing all of political doctrine was somehow reduced - but that's down to my own politics, which are best described as moderate extremist and don't really fit into a party structure as such.

Basically, I'll take any policy from either wing that sorts out a given problem with maximum benefit and minimum harm.

[BeBro]

Originally posted by Static Universe
I've been wrestling with my conscience lately and have finally accepted the fact that I'm no longer a left-leaning centrist.

Is that a coming out? What did your parents say?

[monolith94]

"Bush is more in tune with his people than any leader n history. He makes America resonate."

What planet are you from???

What planet are you from???

What planet are you from???

Not only do you make these broad, sweeping generalizations, but you have NO evidence, you provide NOTHING!!!

"Last I heard those people could leave whenever they wanted." How much do you know about the situation of the Native Americans, exactly? How much do you know?

"Federal funding and control of schools has broken up communities. No one has any pride in their schools anymore because they are completely removed from the process, and no one wants to hear them."

Are you insane??? My community is not broken up, and my city has a TREMENDOUS amount of control over the school. And don't even get me STARTED on our school pride. All the federal government does is give money... You are insane - verifiably insane.

[Arrian]

You started out conservative (you said so yourself) and now are returning to that ideology, after a (brief?) foray into liberalism.

That's not really shocking.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Dissident
yes, join the darkside

Dark Side? We're the side of peace and light!

[chequita guevara]

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!

[GePap]

Yeah, you were never a liberal. Doesn;t seem that much of a conversion really.

I had a friend who was always trully conservative (we had big debates in 2000), but then, came 9/11 and he converted (as converst always are, they become radical) so that he is now further left than I. That is a true conversiob.

DD: you aren't that much of a conservative here.

[Japher]

Static: Thanks for choosing the red pill

[Oerdin]

I'm kind of dead in the middle.

- I am against Bush's desasterous tax policies, I voted for Al Gore, but I was for both Afghanistan and Gulf War 2.

-I'm pro-choice but feel there should be restrictions after the end of the 2nd trimester I also think government money for abortions should only be given if the mother's life is in danger (other wise she foots the bill herself) but we most certainly need to spend more money on contraceptives and sex education.

- Our immigration policy should be changed to be more like Canada's where we cherry pick the best based upon education, wealth, and historical association and not just the everyone & his grandmother policy we have now. Fewer immigraints but higher quality immigraints.

- Free trade is the way to greater wealth and economic growth. In his quest to get reelected Bush has lead us into accepting EU style agricultural subsidies which are a desaster for the 3rd world. Both the EU and US need to negotiate an end to ag subsidies and an opening of their markets to 3rd world agricultural goods as long as those goods are proven to be safe and pest free. Lastly, France's push for antiBioengineered crop policies is just plain old fashioned protectionist deguised as "public health". It's a lie which the EU needs to stop saying.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
Static: Thanks for choosing the red pill

But the red pill is just a trick by the masters to make you think you have a choice in the slave world they created. HAH!

[MRT144]

this is why we like you oerdin!

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Static Universe

The ball started rolling much faster several weeks ago, when we all went to see a documentary on Noam Chomsky and 9-11. They loved it. I hated it. They couldn't understand why I did not like Chomsky, and I wondered if they were watching the screen as me. What's to like?, I thought.

Well, I agree that it's silly to slavishly follow Chomsky, the fact that you don't like him is neither here nor there. Most of what he says isn't that controversial anyway (re: the US in central America) but it just doesn't get as wide a hearing when he says it.

They were very upset when I said I thought America had done a pretty good job helping people all over the world. I freely admit there have been problems, most of which I blame on Henry Kissinger.

America has certainly helped a great deal of people. Unfortunately, they've probably harmed a lot more.

1) Dennis J. Kucinich, their favorite son, was a doofus and completely out of touch with both America and reality. A recycled vegetable oil powered bus? WTF?

I don't think much of him either. So what?

2) Al Franken is a woodchuck and his evidence and argument against Bill O'Reilly was a about as devoid of logic and wit as possible. I'm no O'Reilly fan, but for Franken to claim he's any closer to objectivity is a joke. He was mildly amusing in the 70s-80s when I was a kid, with his "Al Franken Decade" bit, but I'm grown up now. I accept that he was never funny.

Both of these guys are media whores and comedians rather than serious journos.

3) Bill Clinton was a sexually-harrassing scumbag and Hillary is an evil carpetbagger.

Of course it's so evil that Clinton lied about a blow job compared to GWB lying about WMDs.

4) Even if the 2000 election was stolen, which I still believe it was, I was happy Al Gore wasn't in the White House.

Translation: "I do not believe in democracy."

5) Michael Moore was a manipulative a-hole.

The guy is a political comedian, not a serious critic.

6) I've always liked Richard Nixon (This hurt them the most, I think). I've even read several of Nixon's books and thought they were quite good.

Ralph Nader remarked that compared to the current Democrats, Nixon looks like a communist.

7) Liberals have ruined education, not conservative.

Liberal welfare state policies are responsible for much greater access to quality education for everybody and vastly increased tertiary access for most people. What's not to like?

8) Marijuanna is a gateway drug and shouldn't be legalized.

Bull. It's bad for some people, not for others. In any case it is still far less harnful than alcohol.

9) The borders should be restricted.

Who doesn't believe that?

10) No one in America is being persecuted.

Ask a black person or an American Indian for a second opinion.

11) No, the government cannot help you solve your personal problems. When it tries they just get worse.

It depends what problems they are. If it's providing better employment conditions it can do wonders.

The job I've had the last six months takes me out of the big city**** several times a week, and I travel all around small towns in Missouri and Illinois, where I've been meeting a lot of interesting people. It's refreshing to be surrounded by people who do their jobs, live their lives, and seem to be pretty happy about it. They don't constantly harp on anti-government rhetoric, or worse, Illuminati theories.

Of course, they live in a wealthy country that rides on the back of third world poverty. What's not to like?

I still have some problems with the corruption level in the Bush administration and America's corporate sector, which I feel is a way too high, but I do feel genuine reform is coming.

Not from the Republicans it isn't.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
DD: you aren't that much of a conservative here.

What sort of a measuring stick are we using here? You're probably right anyway. I just felt like being contrary wrt the dark side comment.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who doesn't believe that?

I don't... open the borders up!

[Ecthy]

I used to wonder what reason there can be not to be a lefty.

Then the lefties started to ruin this country.

And I became more egoist.

2 reasons to turn into a conservative

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Who doesn't believe that?

I don't... open the borders up!

Damn anarchist!

[Myrddin]

What's wrong with running a bus on vegetable oil?

And if you don't believe it, run a Google search on 'Llanelli' and 'diesel' - for a lesson in practical green economics

[SlowwHand]

Congrats, Static Universe.

Here, for you.

[Japher]

I like be conservative... Stupid girls think I save trees

[Imran Siddiqui]

Damn anarchist!

[Ecthy]

Imran, at what age did you find out you're a conservative?

What were your feelings?

How did you deal with your emotions?