Why is the Looniveristy such a group of lazy capitalist pig dogs?

Rokossovky · June 9, 2003, 20:18

I am confused, and was thinking maybe you could all help. In recent times, the Looniversity has shown an inability to run turns in a efficient and timely manner. So, I thus pose a question to you all, why is the Looniversity such a group of lazy capitalist pig dogs? I eagerly await your answers as I am sure they are entertaining.

- Rokossovky

Archaic · June 9, 2003, 20:44

Could it be that you usually post the turn at a time where the University members responsible for playing the turn are asleep?

Rokossovky · June 9, 2003, 22:03

Twenty-four hours is a long time to sleep Capitalist Pig Dog Archaic. I mean that in a most respectful manner of course.

- Rokossovky

Nubclear · June 9, 2003, 22:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Rokossovky
Twenty-four hours is a long time to sleep Capitalist Pig Dog Archaic. I mean that in a most respectful manner of course.

- Rokossovky

There was week when I was deprived of all sleep for about 3 days, and then when I finally went to sleep....I slept for about 23 hours.

And they are lazy because they are capitalist pig dogs. It is just that simple, Comrade.

Rokossovky · June 9, 2003, 23:58

Oh, lol, I forgot, sorry Capitalist Pig Dog Archaic, your mind is always alseep. :P

- Rokossovky

Mr. President · June 10, 2003, 00:49

Are you sure the problem's not on your end? Communists aren't known for their computer manufacture skillz.

MRT144 · June 10, 2003, 01:06

so when is the not so secret alliance to planet bust the hive gonna go into effect?

Rokossovky · June 10, 2003, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
Are you sure the problem's not on your end? Communists aren't known for their computer manufacture skillz.

Yes, the turn has been sitting there for what is now 26 hours and has been downloaded 3 times (if you wouldn't mind, plz get your team to play the turn...)

Quote:

so when is the not so secret alliance to planet bust the hive gonna go into effect?

I am surprised at you. The Free Drones and the Human Hive have much in common as far as promoting equality in a workers paradise are concerned. We would be best as allies working towards the goal of bringing our enlightened state to all the peoples of planet.

Googlie · June 10, 2003, 02:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Rokossovky
and has been downloaded 3 times

Note that 1 of the downloads (every faction, every turn) is mine

G.

Archaic · June 10, 2003, 04:16

I downloaded it right before I went to University this morning. I checked the term's sub-forum, and saw that nothing had been decided for this turn yet, so I left it to when I got back, ie. Now, to do, so there would hopefully have been some discussion. I assume GT did similar before he went to School.

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 06:19

This isn't the first time that a team's exceeded the 24 hour limit. HOWEVER, we did all democratically vote as to what would happen in these cases, and the matter is for our Googliegod to deal with, not to be used as an excuse for interfaction mud throwing. I will remind my Hive collegues that our turn-before-last was also over the 24 hour limit. This is however the second time the University has been over the limit since the poll was closed, so we must trust that Googlie knows the responsibilites he has, and that he knows best how to exercise them. I would, however, recommend that the University, and all of us, keep an eye on the clock, as I'm sure that eventually Googlie WILL start to apply the penalties we voted for.

(BTW, I doubt that the uni are running FM yet, so they are not Capitalist pig dogs, but rather Ivory tower intellectuals

)

-Jam

Drogue · June 10, 2003, 08:47

Jam: We voted for what to do if they broke the time period, but missed out many option such as the one many agreed on in the discussion about it. Also, what authorisation did anyone have to make that poll? Surely that is all GooglieGod's say. Moreover we have never voted on the actual time limit, and your poll I believe stated that it was 36 hours before any action is takern, and that 24 is what we want, but is a warning only. Futhermore, when we had the discussion about timings, we said that although 24 hours was what we wanted, 48 might be better when the game gets going.

Combine with that this being exam season, and I think we need leniency.

I for one still don't agree withthe poll you made, as not only was it emotive (options included "strict" and "nice") which is not allowed in official polls under the old constitution. Also, even the nice option did turned to beign strict after a warning, without including the option of not turning to strict, and the option that was discussed with regards to the different time periods, such as a warning after so much, action after a different amount of time, was not included in the poll.

I think this thread is in general bad taste too. The idea was this to be fun, not bound up in rules about when it must be played. I admit we need a time period to keep the game moving, but with everything else that's happening at the moment, I think we need a lot of leniency, and if not, we need a constitution written stating the rules of the game, that have been discussed and then voted on showing all options supported in the discussion. Maybe have a place for putting forward ideas, and then id any are seconded, they are used in the poll?

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 09:14

Drouge : I agree with you - as I said, the matter is for GooglieGod to deal with, not for a thread such as this one. The poll you mention, as you say, I agree also has no "legal" force. GooglieGod decides on these things, but I beleive GooglieGod is using it as a guideline for the general feeling about late playing. I'm happy to make another poll anytime, and we can see how people's feelings are about the subject now. I propose the first poll asks this question :
After how long should Googlie administer a "punishment"

No punishment
3 x 24 hour warnings, then Googlie plays the turn as best he can the fourth and consecutive times.
3 x 24 hour warnings, then Googlie plays the turn as best he can the fourth time, then he just presses end turn for further occurences.
2 x 24 hour warnings, then Googlie plays the turn as best he can the third and consecutive times.
2 x 24 hour warnings, then Googlie plays the turn as best he can the third time, then he just presses end turn for further occurences.
1 x 24 hour warnings, then Googlie plays the turn as best he can the second and consecutive times.
1 x 24 hour warnings, then Googlie plays the turn as best he can the second time, then he just presses end turn for the third and any further occurences.
After 24 hours Googlie plays the turn as best he can.
After 24 Googlie plays the turn as best he can the first time, then he just presses end turn for the second and any further occurences.
Googlie just presses End Turn.
The team is eliminated.
Write-in
Xenobanana

Any objections to those choices? Speak now or forever hold thy peace. I shall make a poll in about 24 hours to keep Drogue (and others) happy. If noone objects now, then the last chance will be the "Write-In" option. The poll will be accepted as "legal" unless Xenobanana and Write-In poll a combined 50% or more, in which case a new poll will be formed with new options. In the case that no one option achieves a clear marjority of 50% or more, the highest TWO options will be placed in a run-off poll with winner takes all.

Would that be OK?

-Jam

Drogue · June 10, 2003, 09:48

First you need a poll for the time limit. We never had a poll to decide if 24 hours is right, and I for one disagree. That poll you have leaves out the option I want, that after 24 hours you are given a warning (by PM), and after 36/48 hours the turn is played by GooglieGod given the information he has on the private forum. It is not unreasonable for someone not to go on the internet for a day, especially in the middle of exam season (here at least) and with some teams only haveing a few members who can play the turn, it is entirely feasable that 24 hours will not be enough. Especially if it is later in the game, with a longer turn.

Please poll first for time limits. Should it be:

less than 18
18 hours
24 hours
36 hours
48 hours
more than 48

Then you can either take one that is a clear majority (over 50%) and repoll the top two if none are, or better IMHO is to take the average, so if 5 people chose 48, and 4 people chose 18, then it ends up about 30.

Also, make sure there is "official" in the title, and in the old constitution, changes to the rules required 2/3 support.

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 10:08

Sure, that makes sense

So we have these questions to sort out :

What is the time limit?
Do we punish when the time limit expires, or do we warn only at this time and punish 12 hours later?
How many warnings/how do we deal with repeat offences?
How strict are the punishments?

That'll only take 4 polls.

I think for all these questions we should take clear marjority (50%+) or repoll the first two. Once these are decide it will take 2/3rds marjority to change them. Yes?

-Jam

Drogue · June 10, 2003, 10:16

Ok, time limit first. Then do one poll for the first time punishment, and one poll for repeat offenders. I don't think we need one for when punishment should take place, as that goes with the first one, on the time limit.

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 10:22

Time limit poll is up.

Next one should be when the Penalty is applied.

When the time limit expires.
Warning when the time limit expires, Penalty applied 4 hours later
Warning, 6 hours later
Warning, 8 hours later
Warning, 12 hours later.....

Wouldn't you think?

-Jam

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 10:47

Finally done

The polls are here, here, here, and here.

Thanks for your patience

-Jam

Mongoose · June 10, 2003, 10:54

Chill, guys. We haven't had a major problem yet.

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 10:57

Yet - which is why we're sorting it out now - besides we LIKE polls.

-Jam

Snowflake · June 10, 2003, 11:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
Jam: We voted for what to do if they broke the time period, but missed out many option such as the one many agreed on in the discussion about it. Also, what authorisation did anyone have to make that poll? Surely that is all GooglieGod's say. Moreover we have never voted on the actual time limit, and your poll I believe stated that it was 36 hours before any action is takern, and that 24 is what we want, but is a warning only. Futhermore, when we had the discussion about timings, we said that although 24 hours was what we wanted, 48 might be better when the game gets going.

Combine with that this being exam season, and I think we need leniency.

I for one still don't agree withthe poll you made, as not only was it emotive (options included "strict" and "nice") which is not allowed in official polls under the old constitution. Also, even the nice option did turned to beign strict after a warning, without including the option of not turning to strict, and the option that was discussed with regards to the different time periods, such as a warning after so much, action after a different amount of time, was not included in the poll.

I think this thread is in general bad taste too. The idea was this to be fun, not bound up in rules about when it must be played. I admit we need a time period to keep the game moving, but with everything else that's happening at the moment, I think we need a lot of leniency, and if not, we need a constitution written stating the rules of the game, that have been discussed and then voted on showing all options supported in the discussion. Maybe have a place for putting forward ideas, and then id any are seconded, they are used in the poll?

I agree with Drogue here. I understand the eagerness of those awaiting the turn but please also try to be tolerant and remember there are real difficulties in real world at times, such as final week and server down time (so that people cannot read and post in their private forum). On the other hands, for the people who have the turn, it'll be appreciated by others if you would post a note saying that it could be this many hours late due to this reason, then hopefully we could avoid the need of debating about punishment and enforcing rules.

johndmuller · June 10, 2003, 11:05

Not to put a drone in the ointment, but who says it's fair to take polls like this anyway? This may be called a democracy game, but that doesn't mean it is a direct democracy with one vote per person; perhaps we should have one vote per faction, or one vote per piece of eight . . . or per cutlass, . . . per warship?

I realize the eggheads are frustrating (but you busy bees have an easier time of it since the factions who go before you are relatively consistent in the amount of time taken, so you have some ability to plan your RL ahead) - they may be frustrating, but we all have our times when it is tough to get it together within the requisite time frame, so it behooves us to let it be as much as possible.

As to the time limits, if any . . .
I don't think that 24 hours is necessarily long enough if the turn arrives at a particularly inauspicious time. It is a perfectly reasonable expectation if condidtions are reasonable, but if the turn comes in just after you go to sleep before an especially tough day, it could be 20 hours before you even look at the turn, and sometimes consultation is will be desirable - I would say 36 - 48 hours before any punitive action is initiated (and that it not be initiated right at the 36 hour point except for frequent abusers.

Ramping up the penalties is fine in principle, but don't get too carried away - it's a long game, and 5 or 10 years of 'good behavior' ought to expunge a late turn. so the penalty scales back a notch or resets to the base level.

All that being said, if it bothers you enough, it is certainly possible to take it out on offenders in the game. Our 'plank' on the Montezuma's Revenge has already been dedicated to the Provost

.

Snowflake · June 10, 2003, 11:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
Finally done

The polls are here, here, here, and here.

Thanks for your patience

-Jam

Comrade Jamski, the people and party appreciate your hard work.

Jamski · June 10, 2003, 11:34

Quote:

As to the time limits, if any . . .
I don't think that 24 hours is necessarily long enough if the turn arrives at a particularly inauspicious time. It is a perfectly reasonable expectation if condidtions are reasonable, but if the turn comes in just after you go to sleep before an especially tough day, it could be 20 hours before you even look at the turn, and sometimes consultation is will be desirable - I would say 36 - 48 hours before any punitive action is initiated (and that it not be initiated right at the 36 hour point except for frequent abusers.

All these options are available in the polls, so GO AND VOTE if you want your opinion to be counted. If anyone doesn't vote, then they have no right to complain about the results later.

Quote:

Ramping up the penalties is fine in principle, but don't get too carried away - it's a long game, and 5 or 10 years of 'good behavior' ought to expunge a late turn. so the penalty scales back a notch or resets to the base level.

Perhaps an idea for the future. There's probably enough polls floating around to keep people busy for now

Quote:

Comrade Jamski, the people and party appreciate your hard work

Thanks

-Jam

Rokossovky · June 10, 2003, 13:22

I apologize if I have offended anyone. The purpose of this thread was not evil but just to prod the university into getting their turns in on a more regular basis. I am sure we can all agree that it is rather annoying to have it sitting there like that. However, I am pleased that it has spurred some action regarding the turn lengths, and I thank Jamski for his efforts. But once again, this thread was meant to be a fun prodding, not something offensive. I humbly ask for forgiveness from the Googliegod.

- Rokossovky

Googlie · June 10, 2003, 15:16

Forgiveness granted

But this is a contentious issue, and will only get more so after 50 - 100 turns, when war is on 2 fronts, and a simple decision to move a unit or change a build can have far reaching repercussions

re the time diffs - click on the civgroups at top right list and you'll see:

Peace................ from GMT - 8 to GMT + 1
PUT ................... from GMT - 8 to GMT + 10
CC ..................... from GMT - 8 to GMT + 1
Drones .............. from GMT -8 to GMT +1
Hive .................. from GMT - 10 to GMT + 10

But elsewhere (in one of the poll threads) I've given my opinion - 48 hours to play, a warning with a 12 hour "grace period" after which I open the turn and hit "turn complete"

Obviously there will, from time to time, be extenuating circumstances that warrant a further delay, but if these are sent to me I can verify them in a formal "delay of game" post.

I'm not too sure, in retrospect (versus a couple of weeks ago) that I favor the option of "Googlie plays the turn relying on his interpretation of the discussion therads re forward moves, etc" (to paraphrase) - I've played out about fifty years and things get hairy, and I'd hate to be the scapegoat for a decision that in hindsight cost a base or two, or an SP, or whatever.

I'm in favor of the absolute sanction:

Turn time, followed by grace period, then, absent any special circumstances, open and immediately close the turn, repercussions be damned

That's my 2 cents worth (devalued, of course, 'cos they're Canadian)

G.

Nubclear · June 10, 2003, 15:25

First time:

10 public lashings from Googliegod to leader of faction

Second time:

Googliegod simply presses 'end turn'.

Drogue · June 10, 2003, 16:10

I agree with GooglieGods idea. I am more and more thinking that having him play it puts way to much stress onto him.

Snowflake · June 10, 2003, 17:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Googlie
re the time diffs - click on the civgroups at top right list and you'll see:

Peace................ from GMT - 8 to GMT + 1
PUT ................... from GMT - 8 to GMT + 10
CC ..................... from GMT - 8 to GMT + 1
Drones .............. from GMT -8 to GMT +1
Hive .................. from GMT - 10 to GMT + 10

Astounding! Who would have thought that the Hive, who were accused of being wanting to put others into disadvantage, are actually the one in the most disadvantaged place!

Snowflake · June 10, 2003, 17:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
I agree with GooglieGods idea. I am more and more thinking that having him play it puts way to much stress onto him.

Didn't I say that we shouldn't work him till he vomits blood?

for anybody who even considers asking him to play for yourself.