Are we all criminals?

OneFootInTheGrave · June 10, 2003, 10:50

For example are you a criminal if you commit a crime but you are not caught? Should you be turned in and punished?

Are you a criminal if you use banned substances or drugs like marijuana or you share music with your colleagues?

Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

Bereta_Eder · June 10, 2003, 10:55

pot smokers are a tiny minority, like gays.

oedo · June 10, 2003, 10:59

in some countries you are (were) a criminal just because you want(ed) to flee from there.

Spiffor · June 10, 2003, 10:59

Quote:

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

No, and that's precisely why pot should be legalized, and copyright should be completely overhauled to make copies perfectly legal.

Imran Siddiqui · June 10, 2003, 12:20

Well Fez thinks we all are

.

FrustratedPoet · June 10, 2003, 12:57

Quote:

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
For example are you a criminal if you commit a crime but you are not caught?

IMHO no. But that's really just semantics. It's still immoral to break the law whether you get caught or not.

Giancarlo · June 10, 2003, 13:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well Fez thinks we all are

.

Hehehe...

Yup.

DinoDoc · June 10, 2003, 13:04

Quote:

Originally posted by oedo
in some countries you are (were) a criminal just because you want(ed) to flee from there.

Yes, we all know how awful the USSR was.

Dauphin · June 10, 2003, 13:40

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

IMHO no. But that's really just semantics. It's still immoral to break the law whether you get caught or not.

Unless the law sux.

FrustratedPoet · June 10, 2003, 13:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch
Unless the law sux.

Bending the law to your advantage, without actually doing anything illegal, is OK too. As an accountant you'd know all about that.

mrmitchell · June 10, 2003, 15:54

You're only a criminal if you commit the act, are caught, and are convicted and the law is not some faschist state death spiral.

Hueij · June 10, 2003, 17:07

We are all criminals if given the chance. Anyone that sees an easy way to get to the money will do so. The people at Enron did it, I did it and all of us do it by downloading music and software without paying for it.

As long as people think they can get away with it they will be criminals...

Firelad · June 10, 2003, 17:29

The only way not to be criminal is to understand that law doesn't really exist

It's just fiction...

Ben Kenobi · June 10, 2003, 17:47

Quote:

You're only a criminal if you commit the act, are caught, and are convicted and the law is not some faschist state death spiral.

I agree with the third, but not the first two statements. Law cannot be arbitrary, but you are still a criminal if you commit a criminal act and do not get caught.

Quote:

understand that law doesn't really exist

*sigh. I find myself agreeing with you here Firelad, if you mean a criminal law in a society, and not a moral code. Today in particular, I'm a bit out of sorts on this point.

Firelad · June 10, 2003, 17:57

Obiwan: Yes, that's actually is what I meant

chequita guevara · June 10, 2003, 18:00

You are still a criminal even though you haven't been caught.

Ben Kenobi · June 10, 2003, 18:05

Quote:

Yes, that's actually is what I meant.

After reading some of the OT threads, I've even more out of sorts on this point.

What are we doing here in Canada?

Jon Miller · June 10, 2003, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij
We are all criminals if given the chance. Anyone that sees an easy way to get to the money will do so.

not ture

Jon Miller

VetLegion · June 10, 2003, 20:26

Quote:

Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

are you trying to confess something..

I agree, the state says we are all criminals, but state also lets most of us walk free most of the time. As long as it knows where. And with whom. And why..

Alexander's Horse · June 10, 2003, 20:28

Down here in Australia we are certainly all criminals.

Spiffor · June 10, 2003, 20:31

You are all guilty of making DLs ?

Lorizael · June 10, 2003, 23:19

Is it possible in Ausrtalia, AH, to trace back your lineage so that you can find out what your original crime was? That would be really cool.

Some people say, "my ancestors were Poles and Germans." But you could say, "my ancestors were heretics and murderers."

Skanky Burns · June 10, 2003, 23:21

In some cases, yes.

Alexander's Horse · June 10, 2003, 23:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
Is it possible in Ausrtalia, AH, to trace back your lineage so that you can find out what your original crime was?

Yes, our crime was being Irish.

Tuberski · June 10, 2003, 23:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

Yes, our crime was being Irish.

That's impossible, most Irish were shot on sight!

ACK!

Seeker · June 11, 2003, 00:07

NOT TRUE.

The 'all would committ' thing.

At my local community centre/dance hall I once forgot my wallet with $65 and credit cards....FOR TWO DAYS...and it was returned with everything, by mail. That person could've made easy money with zero consequences, but they didn't cause they knew what was right.

A good experiment: Buy a cheap wallet and put 10 dollars in it, and your address and number. 'Forget' it in your local convenience store. See if it is returned to you with the money.

In my opinion there are many good people in the world who will do the right thing regardless of who is or is not watching (and that includes the g o d).

Crime: I believe Socrates was wrong. Sometimes an individual can be ahead of the law, even if it's a democratic, totally legit law. Like copyright, weed, etc.

We have zero moral imperative to obey unjust laws.

mrmitchell · June 11, 2003, 13:06

Are you a criminal if you don't commit the act but are convicted?

Dauphin · June 11, 2003, 13:08

In such a circumstance try to take advantage of double jeopardy laws.

Cruddy · June 11, 2003, 14:28

Quote:

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
For example are you a criminal if you commit a crime but you are not caught? Should you be turned in and punished?

Are you a criminal if you use banned substances or drugs like marijuana or you share music with your colleagues?

Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

Technically speaking - if your country supports the idea of innocent until proven guilty - that's exactly what you are, innocent until convicted in a court.

As for sharing music - where I stand that's a civil matter, not a criminal one.

Of course this idea of criminalization of all makes sense - to those in charge and intent on retaining their power.

Cruddy · June 11, 2003, 14:29

Quote:

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Are you a criminal if you don't commit the act but are convicted?

Yes. Unless you win your appeal or the conviction is quashed.

Sucks, doesn't it?