Gandhi's vow of poverty

Quasar1011 · June 10, 2003, 18:10

When conducting diplomacy with India, it is very hard to trade with them. Why? Because they usually have 0 gold in their treasury! It's like Gandhi took a vow of poverty! Has anyone else noticed this? In my last game, they actually had 1 gold piece, and I was shocked! But in my experience, the Indians are always the poorest civ. Comments?

Tassadar500 · June 10, 2003, 18:15

What level do you play at?

monkspider · June 10, 2003, 18:22

Interesting, I doubt it's intentional though.

Louis XXIV · June 10, 2003, 18:52

If it was Spain it was intentional, but I'm not sure about India

The fact that they are commercial should give them some cash

Tassadar500 · June 10, 2003, 22:00

But it could be intentional because of the state of India today in modern times. And why would Spain be intentionally poor. They were quite rich when the Arabs were in power.

Louis XXIV · June 10, 2003, 22:39

Spain is flagged with the AI strategy of never building wealth

This means they won't build banks (they'll build markets because they can build trade, though)

Not sure why they did it, but it was intentional

Nym · June 11, 2003, 07:31

I did not notice this. Have the rules changed for India since PTW? I do not think. I was just playing a standard Civ3 (not PTW) game and had no problem to sell techs to India (around 150gpt for one tech). Have you tried a GTP trade? May be they simply do not have cash but still earn lots of money.

Tassadar500 · June 11, 2003, 11:06

It could be that they keep on trading there gold. So try and use a GPT trade and see if it works. That should give us more info.

History Guy · June 11, 2003, 11:20

Well, in some of my latest games, India is very wealthy indeed...until I sell them my luxuries...

Panag · June 11, 2003, 12:59

hi ,

can you attach a save , .....

this is not always the case , in some games they have plenty of money

have a nice day

eris · June 11, 2003, 13:50

I have noticed several civs don't have enough money to bother trading with wheneve I am in the mood. 0 gold in the treasury doesn't seem to be limited to India.

However, whenever I play India, I simulate Gandhi's vow of poverty by never accepting palace builds. I just close the window whenever they offer it and keep living in the same undeveloped hovel. Thus, I maintain my humility whilst teaching the world the value of pacifism. Tanks work really well at teaching the value of pacifism, as do cavalry and modern armor. There's nothing like being rich and powerful to support your insistence on being humble throughout the ages. After a while, when all the world is India, there is no more conflict and pacifism reigns supreme. It warms my humble peace-mongering heart.

Catt · June 11, 2003, 13:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
Spain is flagged with the AI strategy of never building wealth

This means they won't build banks (they'll build markets because they can build trade, though)

Not sure why they did it, but it was intentional

It was a bug in the design documentation, not the code. When it was pointed out, they promptly fixed it (changed to often build wealth) in the first patch for PTW.

Catt

Louis XXIV · June 11, 2003, 14:48

Ah, that makes sense

BulMaster · June 12, 2003, 06:56

Spain is pretty rich in my current game. The pay me 240GPT for a tech.

CerberusIV · June 12, 2003, 07:26

There are usually one or two civs who are a bit behind in tech and spending all they can raise to try to keep up so they rarely have much gold as a lump sum or gpt to trade with the human. The Ai tends to either do rather well or fairly poorly with India so unless they are a tech leader in a particular game they are usually spending all their cash to buy techs from other AI civs.

Kaos XIII · June 12, 2003, 23:31

Early in the game I see a lot of the weaker civs taking a vow of poverty. It's not India, I think it all depends on whether they are behind.

dexters · June 13, 2003, 00:00

India is one of the best civs in the game. They always make a great ally.

The Gandhi portrait they did is really likable. He's always smiling and he's lovable even when he's angry, kind of like a brown Yoda.

The Viceroy · June 13, 2003, 06:28

Ive always thought it should have been Indira Gandhi .. not Mahatma, Gandhi was never really that interested in power, it was his ofspring that were, and still are today, all be it half italian, and not particulary popular in India.

Although saying that, in many ways, I think Vajpayee will be seen as a great leader in the future, taking India into the 21st century, modern day India is hardly cash strapped (look at the worlds richest men, there are more Indians than Brits).

India only appear poor, when you spread the wealth amongst all its citizens, of which 70% are not participating in the economy in any major way .. spread the wealth amongst the 30% remaining, and you'll see that India's middle classes are increasingly well off.

BulMaster · June 13, 2003, 10:51

besides in 5 10 years india will have the bigges pop in the world

Panag · June 13, 2003, 14:55

Quote:

Originally posted by BulMaster
besides in 5 10 years india will have the bigges pop in the world

hi ,

depends how china is doing , .....

have a nice day

M. le Comte · June 13, 2003, 17:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Quasar1011
When conducting diplomacy with India, it is very hard to trade with them. Why? Because they usually have 0 gold in their treasury! It's like Gandhi took a vow of poverty!

Why not ? Some secret stuffs seem to have been implemented. Perhaps are you going to say that I should stop eating very special mushrooms, but beyond the common features of each civ (expansionist, commercial, scientist...), it seems there are some hidden characteriscs.

For example, in all my games (PtW for several months), Egyptians keep beeing awful warmongers in the Antiquity, Americans keep breaking treaties, Mongols keep dominating their continent, so do the Iroquois, Corea keeps loosing all the time. It's really strange. I remember that in civ2, same phenomenons already happened, with a lesser importance.

M. le Comte · June 13, 2003, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by dexters
The Gandhi portrait they did is really likable. He's always smiling and he's lovable even when he's angry, kind of like a brown Yoda.

On the contrary, forget about mongols leader's portrait. Looks like Chewbaca.

Rhothaerill · June 13, 2003, 17:30

A shaved Chewbacca!

I think it's funny that in the modern era Hannibal of the Carthaginians goes bald.

Quasar1011 · June 13, 2003, 20:41

Okay, it's later in the same game (my Canopus PTW map which I will upload shortly), and Gandhi had 8 gold once... but he is still poor compared to some other civs.... Korea seems to be good at having a decent treasury, and well-advance in science, when comparing several games. But India is so poor that I rarely want to even talk to them... all they offer me is a nice vegetarian curry!

pedrojedi · June 14, 2003, 15:39

Korea is doing good?? What game are you playing?

Like the frenchguy said, Korea always goes a bad way in my games, save "almost" one exception... They were good, until the English resolved to turn them to living rotting slaves. They had to ask the ottomans for help, though.

Hey, the Ottomans are good AI enemies! They are tough. Siphar rules!

Quasar1011 · June 15, 2003, 09:13

After hours upon hours of civ (okay, days upon days

), my observations on the civs are as follows (and these are general traits, not absolutes):

Poorest civ: India

Richest civs: Egypt & Korea

Most agressive civs: Russia & Mongolia

Best ally: Greece

Most backstabbing civ: Persia

Strong early, weak later civs: Aztecs & Zulus

I just can't recall a game where Gandhi was rich! Maybe I'll have to pay closer attention to those lists that the historians make every so often...

M. le Comte · June 15, 2003, 11:58

I dont' know why, but the best allies I have while playing with a european civ are the french. Maybe the AI does know my nationality ?

Anyway, french shouldn't be so faithful toward me. Each time they experience it, each time they forget about it...

bobbo008 · June 15, 2003, 12:52

Greece is pretty good, only backstabbed once.

France... ha, when i have the time, i'll take a few cities from them, send my troops elsewhere, and the rest of the French cities just wait for their conquering while i'm busying away somewhere else.

Panag · June 15, 2003, 13:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Quasar1011
After hours upon hours of civ (okay, days upon days

), my observations on the civs are as follows (and these are general traits, not absolutes):

Poorest civ: India

Richest civs: Egypt & Korea

Most agressive civs: Russia & Mongolia

Best ally: Greece

Most backstabbing civ: Persia

Strong early, weak later civs: Aztecs & Zulus

I just can't recall a game where Gandhi was rich! Maybe I'll have to pay closer attention to those lists that the historians make every so often...

hi ,

what setting do you have , small map , distance between civ's , starting points , level , etc , ..... it all has an impact (!) , ....

have a nice day

Greetings · June 15, 2003, 21:30

That's interesting. In most of my games, Gandhi's usually rolling in dough and building up his nuclear arsenal. In one of my first games, I absent-mindedly sold my only supply of uranium to India in exchange for 250 gpt and a lump sum of 1500. Later on, they ended up nuking me, capturing half of my cities, and getting all of their gold back. The moral: never sell Gandhi any uranium.