June 11, 2003, 13:59
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#1
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King
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,506
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Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ?
On the news today:
The US wants to relocate NATO headquarters from Brussels to another NATO country.
The reason for this is some people that want to sue general Franks for war crimes in Irak, and they want to do this in Belgium, because of special Belgian anti-genocide laws.
I mean, what do they think they can achieve with this ? 
More info here
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veni vidi PWNED!
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June 11, 2003, 14:00
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#2
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Prince
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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If the US has nothing to hide, then let him be arrested and tried.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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June 11, 2003, 14:00
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#3
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King
Local Time: 00:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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There weren't any war crimes in Iraq committed by General Franks. So Belgium is engaging in a little slander campaign. So what is the problem with the US moving its base elsewhere?
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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June 11, 2003, 14:01
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#4
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King
Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cyclo-who?
Posts: 2,995
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I can see war crimes if it turned out the guy really targeted civilians (which I doubt), but genocide? These people must be far more high than I originally anticipated.
__________________
Lime roots and treachery!
"Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten
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June 11, 2003, 14:02
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#5
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King
Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cyclo-who?
Posts: 2,995
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Quote:
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Originally posted by elijah
If the US has nothing to hide, then let him be arrested and tried.
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It rhymes!
Seriously, though, that's pretty silly. We can extradite and arrest anybody from any country without any evidence on suspicion of war crimes? Shouldn't there be some evidence presented first? Otherwise, it's just a political stunt.
__________________
Lime roots and treachery!
"Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten
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June 11, 2003, 14:04
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#6
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King
Local Time: 00:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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You know.. actually.. what is Belgium trying to accomplish to try a US military general? What is it trying to do? Spit at the US even more? It is just politics. Nothing of true substance.
Move along.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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June 11, 2003, 14:07
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#7
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Retired
Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
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Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Flandrien
I mean, what do they think they can achieve with this ?
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It's all politics... If they want to play their silly little games, the US will play theirs as well.
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Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
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June 11, 2003, 14:13
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#8
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King
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,506
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
So Belgium is engaging in a little slander campaign.
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A common misconception: Belgium is playing the part of judge, not of prosecutor.
__________________
veni vidi PWNED!
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June 11, 2003, 14:18
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#9
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Deity
Local Time: 23:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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Quote:
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Tommy Franks: war criminal
Belgian lawyer Jan Fermon, working with the Stop USA Coalition--Stop United States of Aggression--brought charges against the Pentagon on May 13, using Belgium's 1993 legislation dealing with war crimes and genocide.
A Stop USA Coalition document explains, "The complaint is directed against soldiers--who are not identified at this stage--who have committed war crimes. It mentions Gen. Tommy Franks in particular for ordering war crimes and for not preventing others from committing them or for providing protection to the perpetrators.
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Yep, figured as much.
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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June 11, 2003, 14:21
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#10
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Warlord
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 217
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Arem't elephants afraid of mice? (Nah, probably a myth).
I think the real target isn't Franks.
I reckon it's Ariel Sharon - but don't quote me, because putting a soldier on trial is one thing. Putting a head of state on trial is a completely different kettle of fish.
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Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84
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June 11, 2003, 14:23
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#11
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Prince
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pride Park,Derby
Posts: 393
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'Old Europe' cannot be trusted anymore, it's not a matter of this one fella but as someone else said International politics. What Happened last century needs to be forgotten - France,Belgium and Germany are no Allies of ours and therefore should have the headquarters of our 'alliance'.
The Nato headquarters should be in the UK.
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Up The Millers
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June 11, 2003, 14:49
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#12
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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hi ,
they should build the new nato and shape on Malta 
they allready have 400 000 unemployed and 40 000 each new year on a working pop of +- 3 750 000 , a couple more for them shall not hurt , .....
luxembourg seems a great new place also , ...
have a nice day
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June 11, 2003, 14:51
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#13
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King
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: WISCONSIN
Posts: 1,935
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I am all for it, lets move the Belgium headquarters, UN to France, our Forces in Germany to Poland and our forces in S.Korea to Iraq, fair is fair man.
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Lets always remember the passangers on United Flight 93, true heroes in every sense of the word!
(Quick! Someone! Anyone! Sava! Come help! )-mrmitchell
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June 11, 2003, 14:57
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#14
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Prince
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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Like I said, if they have nothing to hide, then they should face it like men, instead of running away. If they are shown to have NOT committed war crimes, think of the political capital gained!
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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June 11, 2003, 14:59
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#15
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Back in BAMA full time.
Posts: 4,502
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We shouldnt care where NATOHQ is, we should just get outa NATO.
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June 11, 2003, 15:01
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#16
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King
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: WISCONSIN
Posts: 1,935
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Elijah,
You don't get it. Americans would be targeted for no other reason then being American, we have a big fat target on our ass and other countries would love to hammer some of our boys, there would be no fair trials.
Not as long a countries like Libya and Cuba sit on United Nation Human Rights committees, c'mon the whole thing is a flippin joke.
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Lets always remember the passangers on United Flight 93, true heroes in every sense of the word!
(Quick! Someone! Anyone! Sava! Come help! )-mrmitchell
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June 11, 2003, 15:04
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#17
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Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,135
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Worthingtons
France,Belgium and Germany are no Allies of ours and therefore should have the headquarters of our 'alliance'.
The Nato headquarters should be in the UK.
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Funny, the last time I checked, France, Belgium and Germany were still in Nato and would have some kind of say in this. If anything, Nato headquarters should be moved EAST towards the center of the alliance bceause it's been expanding eastward
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June 11, 2003, 15:04
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#18
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Prince
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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If it was not a fair trial, the Americans would raise hell. Also, the US would hire its best and brightest to win, so it wont be a fair trial, but in the other direction. Besides, theyre creating more suspicion by staying away.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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June 11, 2003, 15:07
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#19
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King
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: WISCONSIN
Posts: 1,935
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It doesnt' matter what we hire if it is a kangaroo court and hit would be, raising all the hell in the world won't help the sacraficial lambs and I am not about to let the boys who die for this country become someone else's puppet, we will take care of our own if they do wrong.
__________________
Lets always remember the passangers on United Flight 93, true heroes in every sense of the word!
(Quick! Someone! Anyone! Sava! Come help! )-mrmitchell
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June 11, 2003, 15:08
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#20
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Deity
Local Time: 20:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
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Quote:
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Originally posted by elijah
If the US has nothing to hide, then let him be arrested and tried.
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We have nothing to hide, but, neither do we have any confidience in what is obviously a politically motivated kangoroo court. 
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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June 11, 2003, 15:09
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#21
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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hi ,
here is a simple solution
nato and shape out of belgium , belgium out of nato and shape
lets see the next time they come crying for us for a c-5 to transport some troops to africa , ......
have a nice day
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June 11, 2003, 15:11
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#22
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King
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Empires were built by dictators, not democracies.
Posts: 2,869
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Even if/when the US won you know there'd be just a deadly silence afterwards and everybody would forget about it. However if the US lost they can expect to be reminded about it for the next 35years so its pretty obvious why they'd rather just pretend belgium doesn't exist since it most likely won't on any decent maps made in the US 
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Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.
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June 11, 2003, 15:11
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 20:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
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I say we pass our own law making it illegal for foreign courts to tie US citizens for war crime or crimes against humanity. We can make it a 20 year sentence to try and that way we can start hounding the leftist scum as well as they can our boys.
Two can play the extra territoriality game.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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June 11, 2003, 15:12
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#24
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King
Local Time: 00:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by elijah
If it was not a fair trial, the Americans would raise hell. Also, the US would hire its best and brightest to win, so it wont be a fair trial, but in the other direction. Besides, theyre creating more suspicion by staying away.
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Forget it. No trial is necessary because the US did nothing wrong in invading Iraq.. especially not Franks. If there is something this court should be preparing for is perhaps some Iraqi Republican Guard generals or something?
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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June 11, 2003, 15:13
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#25
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Posts: 6,511
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Re: Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ming
It's all politics... If they want to play their silly little games, the US will play theirs as well.
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What games are we playing Ming? Don't tell me you can't make a distinction between prosecutor and judge.
If there's anything politicised about this case it's because we sent it to your military tribunals.
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June 11, 2003, 15:15
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#26
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Deity
Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Flandrien
I mean, what do they think they can achieve with this ?
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They might want thier officials to visit NATO headquarters without dieing from laughter brought on by the thought of such asanine charges.
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June 11, 2003, 15:17
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#27
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Deity
Local Time: 20:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
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Re: Re: Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Colon
What games are we playing Ming? Don't tell me you can't make a distinction between prosecutor and judge.
If there's anything politicised about this case it's because we sent it to your military tribunals.
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Can you name a single person tried by a military tribunal in the US since the Nazi sabatuers in 1944? I didn't think so especially since one hasn't occured. All Bush has done is point out that under the Geneva & Hague conventions Tribunals are expressly permited.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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June 11, 2003, 15:18
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#28
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Deity
Local Time: 23:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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Quote:
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Even if/when the US won you know there'd be just a deadly silence afterwards and everybody would forget about it. However if the US lost they can expect to be reminded about it for the next 35years
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Bingo. It's lose/lose for the US. I would add this: even if/when the US won, anything "questionable" that was raised at the trial would be harped on for a decade or three as well.
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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June 11, 2003, 15:19
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#29
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Deity
Local Time: 22:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Sure. Come on and get Tommy. He's had worse on his danged eyeball.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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June 11, 2003, 15:21
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#30
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 03:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Worthingtons
'Old Europe' cannot be trusted anymore, it's not a matter of this one fella but as someone else said International politics. What Happened last century needs to be forgotten - France,Belgium and Germany are no Allies of ours and therefore should have the headquarters of our 'alliance'.
The Nato headquarters should be in the UK.
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France is no ally of yours.....So of course France didn't save Americans in Liberia.
Instead it was....um....JESUS!!!!  JESUS came down and brought forth the holy Americans from the Garden of Liberia, and brought them up to heaven, and smited the French for not rescuing them!!! Thats it....Yeah 
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