Confrontation in Eastern Apolyton!

Mr. President · June 13, 2003, 07:13

When the Sheepsta-Alecrast & Allies war is ready to proceed, it can be placed here!

Sheep · June 13, 2003, 07:41

Just a word of advice. DO NOT START THE WAR UNTIL MONDAY ARCHAIC. I will be offline til then on a trip with my girlfriend Jo and I wont be available.

If you start the war by then rest assured sufficent people know of the opewning stratgem of Sheepsta that you wont get away with it. In other words wait til Monday!

Jamski · June 13, 2003, 08:01

If both parties agree to it I would like to offer my services as a disinterested Judge of this war. Both parties could PM or e-mail me their plans, and I would fairly decide the results. If desired I could do this with a team of Judges, if both parties wish to allocate more.

Finally both parties would give me thier Nation States passwords, which I would award to the winner to represent their victory over the other, and occupation of thier lands.

Speak, ye people.

-Jam

Sheep · June 13, 2003, 08:04

Ummm all good but the last spot hey. I will accept your judgment but I feel that it would be wrong to take Archaic's nation away from him or mine from me.

Jamski · June 13, 2003, 08:05

Do you boys want a war or not? One of you will win, and the other will lose. Then everyone else is happy

-Jam

Sheep · June 13, 2003, 08:07

I don;t want war but will fight if have to. However I feel that whoever loses will have their goverrnment replaced, but still nominally under their control. After all we have been doing this for over 6 months now and all that work woud be wasted if I took Alecrast of Archaic took Sheepsta

Jamski · June 13, 2003, 08:12

I'm afraid I can't agree to give up a lot of time to moderate a war that noone can "win". All parties are quite capable of RPing such a war without my help. I'll be available if you need me for a war that is really decisive.

-Jam

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 08:15

This war is not just between Alecrast and Sheepsta. There are a great many other parties involved (Fonseca Treaty members plus the Coalition members, as well as Sheeps unspecified allies, likely his other nations from CFC.).

However, I would agree to giving up my nation if if it was indeed overrun. Such is war. Just because I created the nation doesn't mean it's mine forever, a concept that I've noticed Sheep's never grasped. Of course, I'd expect my nation back later if it was retaken by my forces or their allies (So the person who took it would have a responsibility to keep it active). However, I wouldn't be giving the password out until I'd actually been conquered.

Furthermore, I believe we need a team of judges. You and I have come to blows before Jamski, and I hear you're a friend of Sheep as well (It was why he joined the Hive, was it not?), so you can understand if I'd have concerns about your ability to be impartial.

Also....Sheep needs to make some non-godmodding military statistics for himself. All his previous ones have been way beyond what's plausible.

Sheep · June 13, 2003, 08:18

You having a go at my new stats are you. None of them exceed 5.1% most under 5% of the population.

Jamski and I are fighting at the moment. zHe can be a *****. Why do you think I don;t want to give up my nation. Also if I took Alecrast I would just be replaceing the government and giving it back to ya. I don;t want it. You shouldn;t want Sheepsta. You have said this before.

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 08:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
You shouldn;t want Sheepsta. You have said this before.

No, I said Alecrast doesn't want Sheepsta, as in, it doesn't want it as a territory. It'd rather Sheepsta be an independant nation of its own. As in who controls the nation IRL, well now, that's a different matter entirely. To the winner go the spoils Sheep.

Sheep · June 13, 2003, 08:24

AHhh. So you confess the only reason you started this whole windy road in the first place is that you wanted Sheepsta. I don;t really care you take it you take it. However know this. If you take it, your nation will know no peace.

I will only accept it if the following criteria are met.

The war isn;t started until Monday
it is fair no more name calling, you must really stop this, it pisses me off.
Jamski is the moderator, no matter how much of an ******* he can be it will be fair as he has fought with us both (I joined the Human Hive but do you see me doing anything there?)

Sheep · June 13, 2003, 08:34

I am going out now. I will see you on Monday hey.

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 08:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
AHhh. So you confess the only reason you started this whole windy road in the first place is that you wanted Sheepsta. I don;t really care you take it you take it. However know this. If you take it, your nation will know no peace.

I said no such thing. I declared war on you for the reasons stated in the other thread. To the victor rightfully go the spoils.

If however you want to go back to the Protectorates, I did it with the intent to create a regional court issue. You coming back complicated the issue, and created a whole host of other issues to deal with, issues that really could be solved only by war, civil or otherwise, given the hostile attitude your regime took to Alecrast, and their slumps into Dictatorships.

As for your threat.....Pffffft.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
I will only accept it if the following criteria are met.

The war isn;t started until Monday
it is fair no more name calling, you must really stop this, it pisses me off.
Jamski is the moderator, no matter how much of an ******* he can be it will be fair as he has fought with us both (I joined the Human Hive but do you see me doing anything there?)

We no not need you to "accept it" Sheep. Do you think Bush asked for Saddam's permission to invade? We shall start when we decide to start, we shall call you whatever you deserve by your actions (Say something stupid and get called stupid, stupid), and the judges can be an independant panel, which may include Jamski. I personally suggest ColdWizard to be one of those, seeing as he's no longer part of the NS roleplay, and perhaps Googlie, because if anyone can hold people to reasonable RP, it's he.

emu · June 13, 2003, 08:38

i am helping sheep, my nation is The Most Serene Republic of Fanaticus , so there

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 08:51

I recognise you. You're that person who decided to help Sheep in that NES where he got his butt kicked when Russia turned on him. Well, your nation's tiny compared to the players in this, so it makes no difference.

Jamski · June 13, 2003, 08:58

I'd be quite happy to join a panel with Googlie and ColdWizard. I'll also promise not to get any "roleplay revenge" on Sheep or Archaic - I'm not one to hold a grudge, as anyone whos played my MSN D&D knows, I even roll the dice fairly

I won't stand for any God modding, I'll tell you all now, and my nation is completely uninvolved.

-Jam

Jamski · June 13, 2003, 09:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
I recognise you. You're that person who decided to help Sheep in that NES where he got his butt kicked when Russia turned on him. Well, your nation's tiny compared to the players in this, so it makes no difference.

Now he's getting his butt kicked in that NES by me and Giovanni as a punishment for supporting Sheep

-Jam

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 09:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
You having a go at my new stats are you. None of them exceed 5.1% most under 5% of the population.

Had to find the thread first so I could post the link.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13017

Yes, I'm having a go at your new stats. Didn't you read it, or did you only skim read? 5% is insane. No nation could realistically support it without crippling their economy.

Jamski · June 13, 2003, 09:32

If people are happy to crush industry and have masses of poorly equipped troops. Look at Germany 1944, or Russia 1942 - troop numbers were too high for industry to support them. In the case of Russia this was OK in the short term owning to the extremly large population as a whole. Germany however couldn't take the pace and collapsed. 70 million Germans managed to have nearly 2 million troops in the field, including children and old men at the end. If I am allowed as a judge you can conscript as much as you like - whether or not it will actually help is debatable.

-Jam

Whaleboy · June 13, 2003, 09:51

The LF is moving a large naval force consisting of 10 aircraft carriers (with a full deployment of the air force), 5 superbattleships, 10 advanced battleships, 30 heavy cruisers, 50 light cruisers, 70 destroyers, 100 frigates, 120 gunboats, 30 hunter/killer subs and 5 "boomer" missile subs, in three formations to the troubled zone, officially, on "exercises".

They are being deployed in an arc to cover Alecrast and Centralis, with reinforcements in the straights between those two nations, with more ships on the way. The third formation, to the East of the second fleet, and south east of Alecrast, will serve to cut off any attempt at a flanking maneuvre.

The Libertarian Federation will not tolerate a pre-emtive strike on one of its allies. Our navy, under the protection of Alecrast, will defend against any naval attack, and have the capability to defend against air-attacks, and to shoot down any missiles directed at either us, or the nations we are protecting. While there is no war, our forces are on exercise and represent no threat to anyone.

Meantime, in all of the LF nations, the military has been recalled from other arenas, including Elethar, except in assisting JRLIM, and have been placed on heightened alert at home.

We repeat that our forces are not involved in this conflict at this stage, and that our alliance with Alecrast is only to defend that nation shuold it be attacked.

We warn ALL nations against making pre-emptive strikes, hopefully our superior forces in the region will serve as a deterrent.

Meantime our Marley-class shuttles are prepared to shoot down any spy, missile or laser satellites should a war occur, and are capable of bombing, and of providing further anti-aircraft and anti-missile support, from hundreds of miles up.

Whaleboy · June 13, 2003, 09:53

ooc: I shall assume my suggested figures on the other thread for Sheepsta's military, to be the forces in the region that I shall RP with. No disrespect intended, but the original posted figures are way too unrealistic, mine are only average (0.3% of population, 8.5% of tax spending), but then, I do have over 1.8 billion people

).

emu · June 13, 2003, 10:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski

Now he's getting his butt kicked in that NES by me and Giovanni as a punishment for supporting Sheep

-Jam

yeah right, reason i helped him was to get land

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 10:57

Some interesting things off another regional board.....

Quote:

4 days ago
The Most Serene Republic of Fanaticus
This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow you to only have one nation in the UN at any given time. It has thus been ejected and barred from re-joining.

Please note this is the most lenient punishment. Further breaches will be punished with nuclear strikes against all offending nations, destroying them.

If you wish to appeal this decision, please contact the game moderators via the Help page.

Quote:

6 hours ago
The Sultanate of Sheep Fanatica
Can I ask you all a favour. I am having a huge problem in Apolyton with my nation there. I am about to be involved in a nuclear war. The Armed Republic of Sheepsta is looking for allies yto join the Treaty of Mt. Gravatt.

I ask you all to post on Apolyton's web forums and declare your intention to back the government of Field Marshall Dunning.

I suppose here that I should reiterate what has been stated to many people. Alecrast and its allies have no intention of flinging Nukes around. If it becomes a Nuclear War, it will be because Sheepsta and its deluded allies are throwing them.

emu · June 13, 2003, 11:00

man that sucks

Archaic · June 13, 2003, 12:59

That you got kicked out of the UN for breaches of the game rules? Yes, I imagine it does.

Whaleboy · June 13, 2003, 17:10

Game rules? Whats going on?

Whaleboy · June 13, 2003, 17:17

Any and all nukes fired by any party (thankyou Archaic for clarifying that you will not fire nukes), will be shot down as a first priority by Marijuanian naval and air forces, who are equipped and inclined to do so. This goes for all missiles, airplanes and bombers, but those with elevated gamma-ray emmisions (thus containing nukes) will be given top priority.

If Sheepsta engages in any military strike against Alecrast or any of her allies, we shall engage Sheepsta, and considering the Field Marshalls military experience, he knows that he does not want to make an enemy of the LF. All satellites, nuke missile batteries (land, ship, sub and air based) have been placed on high alert following the possibility of this conflict going nuclear. I repeat, all nuclear attacks WILL be neutralised by our forces.

Mr. President · June 13, 2003, 20:00

I don't see any way how there's not gonna be god-modding of military stats.

Wait, I see one way. It's the Warhammer 40,000 / Medieval: Total War system. Each faction gets a certain number of points based on its economy, population, and whatnot. Military units and divisions are given a points rating, and each faction takes units the total of whose points values are equal to or less than the total points assigned to them.

I found some other region's web page where they use a system like this.

Would that work, in our professional opinions?

Whaleboy · June 13, 2003, 20:08

Hopefully Sheep will agree with my recommendations on the other thread, I was realistic but generous in my analysis, with the possibility of being more generous, i.e, my military is 0.3% of population, in my example, his was 0.5%, it could reasonably be up to 1%.

Mr. President · June 13, 2003, 20:15

Well, if history is anything to go by, when people design their own military statistics, they tend to err on the side of "gigantic" and "superpowerish". Read the rest of that thread. There's enough armed force in Apolyton for two or three planets.

Perhaps that's what we need Jamski / Googlie / Drogue / whoever else for. 'Cause no war here is ever gonna be fair in that sense.