Disappearing Poly members!

Maniac · June 15, 2003, 08:36

Does anyone know if anything happened to GeneralTacticus? I found it odd he hardly posted in the AC-Democracy Game forum lately, so I decided to do a little research. And to my surprise he seems to have disappeared. He no longer is listed in the general Members List. He no longer is member of the ACDG UoP civgroup here. And his e-mail addy no longer seems to work, as Drogue fruitlessly tried to send a PBEM turn to him. Does anyone have a clue what could be the problem? His last post a week ago doesn't say he's leaving or something. He simply disappeared off the face of the earth.

Later I discovered the same problem with Googlie.

Ming · June 15, 2003, 11:56

Both were restricted for not following the rules of the UpLoad feature of this site. They and some others were recently restricted. They will be back

alva · June 15, 2003, 12:33

Sure they will...

Why are people not able to follow a set of simple rules

Ming · June 15, 2003, 12:35

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
Why are people not able to follow a set of simple rules

Maybe it would help if they actually read the rules

Jamski · June 15, 2003, 13:27

Can you tell us how long they'll be away for... we're kinda waiting for them in the AC demo game.....

Thanks

-Jam

alva · June 15, 2003, 13:37

Im' sure it won't be long

johndmuller · June 15, 2003, 13:50

Ming, it might help even more if you told us what the hotbutton here was; the FAQ just has a list of file types (which I presume is enforced by the upload process) and the phrase "NO ILLEGAL FILES". I wouldn't have thought that Googlie was the type to casually flout your rules, so he probably just wasn't on the same page as you (unless this godhood thing just went to his head) {or} (unless the Googster wanted to show us mortals that he was just regular people too by getting banned).

Not knowing whether there was a history here or how obviously inappropriate the offending material might have been and not knowing whether there is some other place where the rules are spelled out better (If so, shouldn't it be at least referenced in the FAQ?), I couldn't say for sure whether a warning might have been more reasonable than a banning, but for the rest of us, perhaps some further explanation, either of this case or of the relevant part of the rules might be in order.

BTW, it seems that I've experienced contradictory behavior when attempting to acquire files that have been uploaded; I haven't meticulously documented this and I'm not sure I remember the exact outcomes, but I am pretty sure that sometimes the link must be right-clicked and sometimes left-clicked in order to get the file downloaded, although both methods look like they are supposed to work. Maybe there are multiple ways to upload things and different approaches lead to different results when downloading, who knows. Maybe there is yet a third way which leads to inappropriate content being substituted for the legitimate material too.

How secure are these files anyway - it appears that anyone can read material given its filename and the paths to all the files follow an obvious pattern, so if you knew the name of a file and whose area it was in, you could access it. That's probably not a problem, but if someone can get a directory listing too, that would be a problem (the security here is good enough to resist my inexpert token attempts). Of course, uploading files in someone else's name would be a problem too (might even get someone banned), but one would expect that to be covered (but since Googlie got banned, maybe not).

Ming · June 15, 2003, 13:57

Quote:

Originally posted by johndmuller
Ming, it might help even more if you told us what the hotbutton here was; the FAQ just has a list of file types

See the complete Upload FAQ at
http://apolyton.net/forums/misc.php?...aq&page=12#188

And its VERY CLEAR when it comes to what kind of files are allowed.

Quote:

What kind of files are accepted?
Only files related to the games we cover are accepted. NO ILLEGAL FILES will be tolerated. All uploads are logged!

It doesn't say it's ok to post personal photos, or shots from movies... and that's what most people got nailed for.

So... you may only post covered game related material.
I don't know how they can be more clear than that.

Panag · June 15, 2003, 14:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

See the complete Upload FAQ at
http://apolyton.net/forums/misc.php?...aq&page=12#188

And its VERY CLEAR when it comes to what kind of files are allowed.

It doesn't say it's ok to post personal photos, or shots from movies... and that's what most people got nailed for.

So... you may only post covered game related material.
I don't know how they can be more clear than that.

hi ,

Ming a Q , what about personal pics in the AC com picture thread , would this be allowed as an exception or not , .....

BTW it does clearly explain on the upload page that "illegal" files aint allowed , why are some people saying they did not know that , or did not see it , .....

have a nice day

alva · June 15, 2003, 14:07

Panag, no

johndmuller · June 15, 2003, 14:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

And its VERY CLEAR when it comes to what kind of files are allowed.

It doesn't say it's ok to post personal photos, or shots from movies... and that's what most people got nailed for.

So... you may only post covered game related material.
I don't know how they can be more clear than that.

If that FAQ (which was what I was asking for further expanation of in my original post) is "VERY CLEAR", I'd hate to see what just "Clear" was like, let alone "SLIGHTLY VAGUE". Not to give you a hard time, but PLEASE!

Hey, we're in a heavily role-playing game here and the Googster is as heavily if not more so into it than anyone - so what is game related and what isn't is no more clear than the murky rules of what you can and can't post.

Ming · June 15, 2003, 14:24

Without specifically saying Yes and NO to EVERY specific circumstances... the rules are indeed very clear.

People were restricted for posting PERSONAL pictures.
Please explain how those could POSSIBLY be game related... Seems REALLY CLEAR TO ME.

DarkCloud · June 15, 2003, 14:53

Quote:

If that FAQ (which was what I was asking for further expanation of in my original post) is "VERY CLEAR", I'd hate to see what just "Clear" was like, let alone "SLIGHTLY VAGUE". Not to give you a hard time, but PLEASE!

John, I respect your opinion- but I never read the FAQ, and yet when I uploaded files- the first thing I notice each time is that I am only supposed to post 'game-related' material... I think that rules out any confusion in regards to personal photos and movies... and as for other games- I understand your complaint more- but the fact that Apolyton does not have a specific section dedicated to other games should give people a hint that they are not supposed to upload other game information.

Apolyton is not your personal disk-storage space

although it might be nice if it were

Cedayon · June 15, 2003, 15:19

I uploaded some images for use on the private forums, because we can't use attachments there (which might be a bug).

*promptly removes them all*

Anyway: when I read the FAQ now I see very clearly "only game-related material allowed" ... for some reason that didn't sink in from the first 2 times I read it some time ago... perhaps "if you upload anything not game-related you will be temporarily banned" would have a greater chance at getting through our thick skulls?

Thanks for the clarification, in any event, the rules are much clearer to me now

edit - perhaps, to note the difference between "game-related" and "related to our democracy game" something like "if you upload anything not related to one of the games featured by Apolyton, you will be temporarily banned" would be more effective.

alva · June 15, 2003, 15:22

True DC (and Ming), but the fact that more members are (a little?) confused, should in itself mean that there is room for improvent regarding the FAQ. (see Panag's first question for example)

If we can prevent these things from happening again, surely you will agree that, that would be a win-win situation for both the owners/mods and for the members (especially those who had no deliberate foul-play in mind).

Panag · June 15, 2003, 15:29

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
True DC (and Ming), but the fact that more members are (a little?) confused, should in itself mean that there is room for improvent regarding the FAQ. (see Panag's first question for example)

If we can prevent these things from happening again, surely you will agree that, that would be a win-win situation for both the owners/mods and for the members (especially those who had no deliberate foul-play in mind).

hi ,

its just a suggestion , it could be a nice exception to the rules , .....

the problem is that some people did somethings on purpose , ..... when a mod or owner gives you a warning and explains something , ones , twice , then dont come and complain when you are banned because you did it again , ...

have a nice day

Ming · June 15, 2003, 15:30

How much more clear can it be... GAME RELATED ONLY

If people can't understand that...

It really seems that the main problem is that some people didn't BOTHER TO READ THE RULES... More specific rules aren't going to help them

Maniac · June 15, 2003, 15:36

Just checking to be sure. Is it allowed to keep the following small picture uploaded? I've used it several times for election campaigns in the ACDG, so in that sense it is game-related.

I haven't been banned yet, so I presume it's allowed, but I just want to avoid a nasty surprise in the future.

Btw Ming, could you please

tell us when Googlie will be back? He's the CMN of our current ACDG, so he's kind of a crucial person.

Ming · June 15, 2003, 15:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw Ming, could you please

tell us when Googlie will be back? He's the CMN of our current ACDG, so he's kind of a crucial person.

He should be back later this evening... like most of those effected (some are back already)

Only one person got a longer restriction.

And if you think there is a problem with a picture... just PM MarkG or DanQ and explain what you have loaded and why it's game related. They are just trying to keep people from using it for non game related reasons... and since it's their site

alva · June 15, 2003, 15:54

Ok Ming, I'll bite one last time (read: try to convince you

)

If you would moderate by the (Apolyton) letter, I'm sure you could restrict everyone at least once a day, but you don't.
You as do other mods go by the spirit of the rules (at it should be, wouldn't really be fun to be here, if you wouldn't, I guess

).

Now taking that to the upload faq, to me (and probably many others) the illegal part means (no warez, no porn, no advertising etc., IE use your common sence and don't do anything that could get this site into any kind of trouble), so if you go by spirit, I think most people will have thought that the occasional pictures of a pet would be acceptable.
So even if the rules are clear, there is still room for confusion

The related games part is something else;

I always assumed that since I thought that even modified files fall under some kind of copyright right, where by nature illegal (grey are ).
So my thinking was that Apo had some kind of deal going with the compaginies of the featured games and thus were allowed.
Hence the confusion

Illegal (warez etc) : NO
illegal(?) but related : ok
Not related but legal : ok

And yes, I had read them before (when Markos banned the first batch when this feature was introduced (which btw where more related to...warez IIRC)), I never studied them, but I did read them.

Anyway, it's an executive decision and not ours to 'protest'

against, but like I said, if making it 'extra-special-ultra-style' clear

will help prevent further mistakes from happening, then I think it is at least worthwhile to consider it.

alva · June 15, 2003, 15:56

Quote:

Just checking to be sure. Is it allowed to keep the following small picture uploaded?

Again here I would have to say no.

Nubclear · June 15, 2003, 16:13

Actually, I once PMed Markos about this.....I'm sure he'll back me up

He said that anything related to the demogames is fine, and the occasional picture in OT is okay too.

Ming · June 15, 2003, 16:19

Yes Alva... we do moderate based on the spirit and the intent of the rules.

But here, the intent is very clear... and doesn't really leave any room for interpretation.

The up load feature is not meant to serve for "personal" use. It is solely meant for covered game support, and NOTHING else. And the rules state that VERY CLEARLY.

MarkG and DanQ are the sole decision makers on this point. They are the only two that check the up loads out. And it's their site.

If you have ANYTHING that is game related, but might not appear to be at first glance, just send them a PM stating the facts. They aren't trying to be jerks about this... they just want to insure that any space being used is being used for covered game related reasons.
I think that's fair...

alva · June 15, 2003, 16:31

Quote:

They aren't trying to be jerks about this

We know

Quote:

I think that's fair...

It is

I certainly wasn't trying to imply otherwise.

Mr. President · June 15, 2003, 23:26

How do you remove files from the upload section?

alva · June 15, 2003, 23:42

click upload-->click see file (right hand side of the screen)

Then there are buttons next to each file 'del' , press it and it's gone

I'm becoming quit the upload-specialist aren't I

H Tower · June 16, 2003, 02:53

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
click upload-->click see file (right hand side of the screen)

Then there are buttons next to each file 'del' , press it and it's gone

I'm becoming quit the upload-specialist aren't I

or quite the +1 specialist, take your pic

DrSpike · June 16, 2003, 05:50

I'm surprised Googlie got banned...........it must have been an oversight on his part, since he is very helpful and not one to flout the rules for the sake of it. I hope he didn't get a pcr, because IIRC he's been a stone's throw from emperor forever.

Maniac · June 16, 2003, 08:22

He made Emperor a month ago or so. And due to him being the CMN of the ACDG, he has made another 2-300 posts in the meantime.

Quote:

He said that anything related to the demogames is fine

Ah great! Then I can ~~carelessly spam ahead~~ further contribute to the ACDG community without worrying.

Martin Gühmann · June 16, 2003, 12:48

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
The related games part is something else;

I always assumed that since I thought that even modified files fall under some kind of copyright right, where by nature illegal (grey are ).
So my thinking was that Apo had some kind of deal going with the compaginies of the featured games and thus were allowed.
Hence the confusion

Illegal (warez etc) : NO
illegal(?) but related : ok
Not related but legal : ok

Of course there is a copyright issure, but the companies who don't accept mods are rare. And actual those rare companies are very stupid, because the availibility of a lot of mods of a game increases its replayability. That means the game attracts more people and if more people want to play the game they can sell more copies of the game. So if they sell more copies they earn more money. So there are even companies who allows the custome to modify the game for instance to use text files to describe the properties of units, buildings, tile improvements, terrain, goods, governments, ai strategies, ai personalities, orders, etc... And ive the user a powerfull script language, so that it is possible to modell complex events, like huge slave uprises that makes cities change their owners...

So these modified files are accepted by those companies who made the games that are covered on Apolyton.

-Martin