Field Marshall Dunning has announced the start of the warhead export program

Sheep · June 16, 2003, 02:21

The Incoporated States of El Salvadoristan has given the Armed Republic of Sheepsta 15 billion fleeces for two Sheepstan nuclear warheads, nuclear technology, and the promise of futher trade. El Salvadoristan on receiving this will pay a futher 15 billion fleeces.

The Disputed Territories of Pharaoh Gunsanroses the UN delegate for the Black Pitt of Charr region has also requested the same deal. The Field Marshall has signed off on it and we are awaiting apporval from the Gunsanrosian government that they accept before we go ahaead.

This program was started when Field Marshall Dunning realised that since the Protectotrates period, Sheepsta has had no relationship with the nuclear proliferation or firt strike treaties. He has hinted while the crisis with Alecrast will probably will never go away, Field Marshall Dunning may sign a treaty with the region where he promises not to use nuclear weapons unless attacked.

Archaic · June 16, 2003, 04:08

For reference Re: The "Mr. Laden" issue.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=86863

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
The Armed Republic of Sheepsta will like to announce that it has sold its first nuclear warhead. The Buyer a Mr. Laden is very pleased with hsi new toy.

There are nine left in the sellable stoickpile left to go.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
To futher the incentives a buy one get one free nuke deal will be on for the next 25 hours. 25 hours is how long Sheepsta now recognises the day to be.

Whaleboy · June 16, 2003, 07:11

Since this means there are less nukes in Sheepsta, I'm sure Alecrast will be happy with this, and since you have hinted that you will only use nukes if attacked, again that is a good thing.

Archaic · June 16, 2003, 07:55

/me points to the ABC thread

Alecrast is *very* happy with the initiative shown by its private firms.

Sheep · June 16, 2003, 09:03

Alecrast has been deluded by creative journalism. Mr. Laden has islead you as he was an agent for El Salvadoristan. As for the less nuclear weapons I am sure 10 will not make a diffrence in a nuclear stockpile with well over 10,000. As for the not using it first, we will use nukes first, but only if attacked by any means. If an invasion of Sheepsta or its allies occur nuclear warfare will be the result. We need not remind anyone of this.

Jack_www · June 16, 2003, 10:05

Jackson oppose the sale of nuclear arms. This is pure madness. A formal protest has been issued and the Jackson navy has been order to move in close to SHeepta. The congress is also considering an embargo of SHeepsta due to their trading of nuclear arms.

Urban Ranger · June 16, 2003, 10:26

All outbound traffic from Sheepsta will be turned back until further notice.

Whaleboy · June 16, 2003, 10:41

In the light of the information regarding Sheepstas nuclear warheads (10'000 is realistic btw), and the sale of some of these, the LF now opposes this.

We advise Sheepsta, based on the naval buildup near that nation, to reconsider some of its more provocative actions like this. Although we do not consider this anything close to something that would justify war, other nations (ooc: especially those that are run by Americans

jk) may see it differently.

You have huge naval armadas of various nations nearby, including a not inconsiderable LF fleet nearby, and although ours for one will not launch pre-emptive attacks, we advise you to tread carefully, as we would do in your situation.

Drogue · June 16, 2003, 17:47

10,000?

How many does the US have? Akiria has a military far far bigger than Sheepsta's (hgiher per capita by far, and many more people) and we have 1500 IIRC. How many does the US have (or used to have in the 60s and 70s)? Multiply that by about 6 (we have about 6 or 7 times as big a budget as the US) and you'll get our figure. How many is that?

Whaleboy · June 16, 2003, 17:58

Quote:

How many does the US have?

12600

Whaleboy · June 16, 2003, 17:59

or thereabouts

Giovanni Wine · June 16, 2003, 18:14

I have statistics about nuclear stockpile similar to yours elijah.

I have

Russia: 22'500
USA: 12'070
France: 450
Great Britain: 400
China: 400 (estimated, as those infos are obviously classified in China)

That's according to a military atlas I founded at home. It was printed in the 1998 though, so maybe some of those stats are changed now.

Saluti

Mr. President · June 16, 2003, 20:50

The Karakasian navy has ordered the diversion of two carrier groups southwards on the long journey towards Sheepsta. The other two will remain in the Home Waters.

First Minister Adams supports fully the embargo on Sheepsta, and has recalled Karakas' ambassador from that nation.

Urban Ranger · June 16, 2003, 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
In the light of the information regarding Sheepstas nuclear warheads (10'000 is realistic btw)

10,000 is way beyond their abilities. Even if the number can be supported by their economy, which I haven't even looked at, there are still other problems.

The main one is time. The US and USSR have been building them for several decades. Sheepsta hasn't. Consider the extensive infrastructure support needed - mines, refineries, etc., all of which have to be built - it seems completely unrealistic to assert 10,000 warheads.

Of course, that is assuming they have the technical know-how, which is another question.

Sheep · June 17, 2003, 02:36

Sheepsta assures the region that it has the numbers and the technical know how. However other than the 4 warheads sold to both El Salvadoristan and Pharaoh Gunsanroses, the program has not received any futher takers.

Field Marshall Dunning has declared it a partial success and has halted its proceedings. We remind any and all ships around Sheepsta that any incursion into our territorual watrers will be construded as an act of war and allows Sheepsta under current laws to use any means necessary to fight it.

Treaty of Mt. Gravatt members have also stated if any ship comes under fire it will be construded as an act of aggression and subject to the same exposure under international laws.

Drogue · June 17, 2003, 06:12

In that case, Akiria has about 75,000

being missile heavy military, with over 6 times the US budget

Will update.

10,000 is a little optimistic for Sheepsta, but it's military is large, as is it's spending, thus I would let it slide personally. Maybe 4 or 5,000 is more realisitic, but 10,000 is not a complete overkill.

Sheepsta has been building them for decades, in game time. Considering the growth rate, a day is about a year or so, and thus it has been building them for quite some time.

GeneralTacticus · June 17, 2003, 06:16

Quote:

Sheepsta has been building them for decades, in game time. Considering the growth rate, a day is about a year or so, and thus it has been building them for quite some time.

I thought we'd been through all that, no? 1 day = 1 year is utter bollocks. If we followed that, we'd currently be in about the 23rd century AD, given how long ago we started up NS here. Moreover, to suggest that anything like the kind of stuff we RP here would go on for years or decades is patently ridiculous; very few diplomatic crises go on for very long at all. If that kind of time scale was applied to the real world, it would have taken decades for Bush to get around to invading Iraq.

Drogue · June 17, 2003, 06:24

That is true, but that is what is used on NS, and what goes with growth rates. WHatever we choose, we would be years ahead of RL since we grow so fast, a nation from 5 million to 1897 million in less time than it takes from conception to birth in RL? I think 1 day 1 year is still the best model. Anything else makes growth seem completely inappropriate, and means that we have been rulers for but a few years, with massive changes in our nations. Akiria has gone from SLP, to democratic socialists, to benevelent dictator, to capitalizt in a coupel of years? I doubt it. It has done that in about 100 years IMHO, which one be a day a year.

GeneralTacticus · June 17, 2003, 06:32

Quote:

That is true, but that is what is used on NS, and what goes with growth rates.

Can you point to anywhere on NS where 1 day = 1 year i accepted as the standard? Using it as the standard would basically eliminate the idea of RPing something which happened over a very short period of time, as a day would go past every four minutes. If you tried to RP, say the Cuban Missile Crisis, you'd have to get the whole thing done in a little over an hour.

Quote:

WHatever we choose, we would be years ahead of RL since we grow so fast, a nation from 5 million to 1897 million in less time than it takes from conception to birth in RL?

I'm not advocating that we should have 1 day = 1 day as our standard (which would be equally absurd), but rather that we should have something like 1 day = 1 month, or something close to that.

Quote:

I think 1 day 1 year is still the best model. Anything else makes growth seem completely inappropriate, and means that we have been rulers for but a few years, with massive changes in our nations. Akiria has gone from SLP, to democratic socialists, to benevelent dictator, to capitalizt in a coupel of years? I doubt it. It has done that in about 100 years IMHO, which one be a day a year.

Obviously the growth model also presents problems, but you have to ask yourself: which is more important, having a realistic way of explaining population growth, or being able to actually RP without things either taking years or being absurdly short?

Moreover, since we started using NS (which, for you, was the 24th of December 2002 IIRC), we've had enough time to safely say it's been several decades, at the very least. The idea that a nation could change many times over such a period is hardly absurd.

And as I mentioned already - if we did accept 1 day = 1 year, that would mean that we either started in the 19th century, or else we're now in the 23rd century, which means that, tech-wise, pretty much anything goes, as we have no idea how far we will have advanced since then.

Urban Ranger · June 17, 2003, 06:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
WHatever we choose, we would be years ahead of RL since we grow so fast, a nation from 5 million to 1897 million in less time than it takes from conception to birth in RL?

There's also a thing called immigration.

Urban Ranger · June 17, 2003, 06:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
10,000 is a little optimistic for Sheepsta, but it's military is large, as is it's spending, thus I would let it slide personally. Maybe 4 or 5,000 is more realisitic, but 10,000 is not a complete overkill.

I cannot see how Sheepsta can maintain that level of military expenditure without everything else comes crashing down. Think USSR, that's a pretty close example.

Giovanni Wine · June 17, 2003, 07:00

Yes, that nuclear stockpile actually caused the bankruptcy (sp?) and later collapse of the USSR, and managed to put the USA in some very high debts (that will take a very long time for them to be extinguished).

Plus it is not just the cost of producing a nuke, but also the coast of maintaining them that is heavy.

On another note I agree with GT, I believe 1 day = 1 month to be a better RP Time rather than 1 day = 1 year

Saluti

Archaic · June 17, 2003, 07:13

I personally favour 1 day = 2 weeks or even 1 day = 1 week. Even 1 day = 1 month seems to make things happen too slowly in RP.

Mr. President · June 17, 2003, 22:35

I agree, if I'm allowed to ignore my population statistic at NationStates. I think it's ridiculously high and grows ridiculously fast . . .

Urban Ranger · June 17, 2003, 22:37

I think 1 day = 1 week works the best. Otherwise events happen too fast. Just ignore the population stats for now.

Mr. President · June 17, 2003, 22:49

Good.

Drogue · June 18, 2003, 06:49

One day one month as GT said is probably realistic, but look at Civ. In that wars last hundreds of years, being at most 1 turn 1 year. I agree with the tech thing, but one day one week means that we have progressed about 4 years since I started. 4 years and I've changed government style over 15 times. 4 Years and we have gone from 5 Million to almost 1900 Million. 4 Years and we have had the delegate change ~6 times. That isn't realistic. One day one month means we have been going about 18 years, which still is pushing it IMHO, for all the changes, but is acceptable.

GT: One day one year was what was used on the NS boards when I used to refularly post and view them, a couple of months ago. It may have changed, but it was used as that for months, and seemed to work fine. Yes wars and RP took a long time, and tech isn't modelled at all since we cannot have ubertech (unless we all advance, which would be better IMHO) but it worked with the other factors, of growth, change inn government, change in nation etc. One Day one month is probably the best compromise, although it is still too short IMHO.

GeneralTacticus · June 18, 2003, 06:55

Quote:

GT: One day one year was what was used on the NS boards when I used to refularly post and view them, a couple of months ago.

Well, I regularly browse them now, and have done for some time, and not once have I seen reference to a '1 day = 1 year' standard. Ever.

Quote:

Yes wars and RP took a long time, and tech isn't modelled at all since we cannot have ubertech (unless we all advance, which would be better IMHO) but it worked with the other factors, of growth, change inn government, change in nation etc.

Growth is about the only thing I see here where 1 day = 1 year is actually vaguely realistic (although it still doesn't work very well; when a nation is starting, population growth can be high as 20%; when it gets older, it can be utterly miniscule), but I fail to see why changes in government or nation necessarily require time to go past very rapidly.

Whaleboy · June 18, 2003, 08:08

Quote:

We remind any and all ships around Sheepsta that any incursion into our territorual watrers will be construded as an act of war and allows Sheepsta under current laws to use any means necessary to fight it.

The naval forces in the Alecrast/Sheepsta arena are in Alecrastian waters and international waters, not Sheepstan. If there is a war, it will be Sheepsta that starts it.

With all the sanctions, embargos etc etc around Sheepsta, I doubt it would be able to produce 10'000 warheads, especially since they all have to be modern, older warheads (>10 years) will be more unreliable due to the decay of those weapons, thus detonation and control issues will be more difficult. A figure like perhaps 1000 would be somewhat more realistic, but like Drogue said, there is a argument for letting this one slip.

Archaic · June 18, 2003, 08:18

Actually, it's more like Alecrast/Centralis/Noosland/(Karakas?)/International Waters, but that's a minor point.