Civ 3: PTW Democracy Game II

Jon Shafer · April 16, 2003, 01:30

In the chatroom, a few of us were bouncing around ideas to start up a 2nd PTW DG here at Apolyton. Everyone seemed to love the idea, and the only question would be if there would be enough support to start a second game with enough teams of adequate size.

If we get at least 30 people interested, I will talk with Markos about the possibility of opening up PTW DG II.

Edit: PM away, finally got a response from Markos too.

Members (56):

Tiberius
Thrumble*
Panzer32
Aeson
DAVOUT
Tarquinius
panag
ceroomaster
Tuberski
Sheep
ruby_maser

Sunshine
Master Zen
BigFree
Togas
Wooglin
Thirgaral
Manya
E_T
Trip
WhiteBandit

Tabemono
Kloreep
ZargonX
Nimitz
UnOrthOdOx
GodKing
GeneralTacticus
Aidun
jdd2007

Cake or Death (Eddy Izzard)
Theseus
FrustratedPoet
alva
Arrian
Shiber
BigCrunch
ixnay
WarOfArt
Velociryx
Randolph

Monty Python
GhengisFarb
Octavian X
dejon
Darekill
marlow
Zaxyus

Monkey
Calc II
flash9286
statusperfect
BetaHound
ThePlagueRat
Hot_Enamel

Puritan
Nakar Gabab

l33t
redstar1

Mohammed al-Sahaf
bongo
Alexnm
Krakan
OPD

Master Zen · April 16, 2003, 01:34

Multi-player Demo Games are the best thing since sliced bread

sign me up

Perhaps we could start a demo game with a different concept, so it's not just 2 regular MP DGs but this second one has a twist.

Any ideas?

Jon Shafer · April 16, 2003, 01:36

Perhaps we could have someone design the map, like we are for the new C3DG? That would add a touch of realism and an awesome twist for a game like this.

BigFree · April 16, 2003, 01:36

I think there's plenty of time for members of the first game to play in the second. I mean the teams should be comprised differently, with members on each team of the 2nd game comming from different teams from the 1st. Plus you might have a few new members that missed out on joining the first because they heard about it too late and didn't bother to join a game already in progress; I know I almost didn't join a team because of that.

PTWDGII

Kloreep · April 16, 2003, 01:41

Yikes, this would make 4 DGs for me; 5, if citystates ever starts up! But I'd be interested.

WhiteBandit · April 16, 2003, 01:41

I definitely concur. I missed the signups and I guess I could join a team though. But I've been getting more active with the ISDG and a bunch of PBEM games and it is just really damn fun. So I would be totally for it.

Togas · April 16, 2003, 01:45

I'm sure that when teams start dropping from the original Team Game that this thread will take off. Not sure if you'll get the interest now, but keep this idea open because the team demo game is the best game by far on Poly, and I'd certainly volunteer to get involved with this one.

I suggest our next game have a human-made map, and at least 1 historian.

I also suggest that our teams have a wide assortment of themes and that we try to mix up the team members as much as possible ... not repeat the same teams again (as much as I would love to work with my RP brothers -- we're very tight).

Anyhow, long story short, I'm in for the next one ... whenever it begins. No rush.

--Togas

ZargonX · April 16, 2003, 02:00

I would definately be interested in another PTW team game! It's just so much easier to feel like you're part of a team in this game than in other DG's, just due to the more intimate team size.

As for a twist... a pre-made map would be interesting. Maybe play on an Earth map? Sure, we'd all know what it looked like, but the resources could be randomized. And honestly, who can say they haven't dreamed of storming into Canada with as many military units as possible?

alva · April 16, 2003, 02:08

I sure some people are anxious for a second game (some lux members, and people joined up (to) late on the first one, but to be honest, I do think it's a bit too soon.

Especially if you are going to have different teams..which will complicate things.

Just a thought, why not do a minigame PTW demo game (IE smaller map). You wouldn't need as many peeple( a pity vox is so small, isn't it

), and it's bound to end just in time to start a second 'standard' PTW Demo game.

notyoueither · April 16, 2003, 02:11

Hmmm. I was hoping GS and other teams would stick together and enter in other derbies.

notyoueither · April 16, 2003, 02:12

Perhaps including other sites...

GeneralTacticus · April 16, 2003, 02:35

Sign me up for this too, whenever it gets going

Jon Shafer · April 16, 2003, 02:44

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Hmmm. I was hoping GS and other teams would stick together and enter in other derbies.

What do you mean? We have more ISDGs where the current PTW DG teams play against teams from other sites?

asleepathewheel · April 16, 2003, 02:45

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Hmmm. I was hoping GS and other teams would stick together and enter in other derbies.

Agreed

Jon Shafer · April 16, 2003, 02:46

Quote:

Originally posted by ZargonX
I would definately be interested in another PTW team game! It's just so much easier to feel like you're part of a team in this game than in other DG's, just due to the more intimate team size.

You're right. As much fun as the Apolyton ISDG team is, there's still a certain "personal interest" that isn't present in something like the PTW DG. After all, it can't be a real DG without having to negotiate with Togas.

Quote:

As for a twist... a pre-made map would be interesting. Maybe play on an Earth map? Sure, we'd all know what it looked like, but the resources could be randomized. And honestly, who can say they haven't dreamed of storming into Canada with as many military units as possible?

Earth map would be too hard to balance. There's a lot of land everywhere, people would know exactly where to scout, exactly what to research, etc. etc. based upon their starting position. That takes part of the fun out of the game. I would rather that someone put a lot of time into designing a really cool map for the teams to play on, like Togas and BFM are doing for the SPDG.

Tiberius · April 16, 2003, 02:49

I'd be interested, but only when the first one will end.

BigFree · April 16, 2003, 02:53

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Hmmm. I was hoping GS and other teams would stick together and enter in other derbies.

I was think it would be nice if people would join different teams. We don't want any clique's running around here, do we?

It would give people a chance to work together instead of against each other. I think it would help to improve relations for Apolyton members. I liken the PTWDG here to an Intrasquad game, it is meant for us to learn, hone our skills against human opponents and to have fun.

alva · April 16, 2003, 02:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip

What do you mean? We have more ISDGs where the current PTW DG teams play against teams from other sites?

, that's more like it

Thrumble · April 16, 2003, 02:57

There's the current PTW Demo Game, the Citystates version of the PTW Demo Game, and now we want a third PTW Demo Game? I'm up for it, but I think we shouldn't "over expose" the idea to prevent people from getting burned out.

Are we going to force people to keep the same teams or will Mark and Dan create new forums for new teams? I would prefer we start out with eight teams and no AI, this gives us more targets to eliminate.

Jon Shafer · April 16, 2003, 03:02

Quote:

Originally posted by alva

, that's more like it

Why?

I think BF is right. The more we draw lines to seperate people into permanent parts of the DG community, the more we hurt ourselves. At this point, I would be open to joining any team with any theme simply for the fun of it and for a new and different experience. Keeping the same teams would only breed fiercer competition, establish sterotypes and feed grudges and egos. None of which fosters a team-like spirit.

Thrumble · April 16, 2003, 03:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Keeping the same teams would only breed fiercer competition, establish sterotypes and feed grudges and egos.

Now that sounds like fun.

Master Zen · April 16, 2003, 03:26

In any case then we can make this sort of a "lightweight" DG until the regular one ends and a serious part II starts.

I like the idea, small teams, not really based on warmonger/builder/roleplayer themes but just among people who get along.

notyoueither · April 16, 2003, 03:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip

Why?

I think BF is right. The more we draw lines to seperate people into permanent parts of the DG community, the more we hurt ourselves. At this point, I would be open to joining any team with any theme simply for the fun of it and for a new and different experience. Keeping the same teams would only breed fiercer competition, establish sterotypes and feed grudges and egos. None of which fosters a team-like spirit.

I don't think that everyone has to go the same direction. Do they?

GS is a bit of a different bird, from what I am reading. It is a team in a very real sense, because we all know each other, and we share a kindrid spirit, for the most part. Now, if other members of other teams do not feel the same, OK. People should be free to do as they wish, and so should we.

We are not better, nor worse, than any other team. We are a team though. That has been my sense from the get go. It has also been my hope that these teams would continue in some fashion or other. If others do not feel the same, so be it.

You could always force new teams. I suspect though, that some of the flocks will fly together.

Hot_Enamel · April 16, 2003, 03:36

I would join a second game.

Smaller teams are definately the way to go.

Perhaps a pangea map would be better next time around. It will take the diplomacy level up a notch or two...imaging declaring war, and having to worry about your borders from 6 other directions.

Definately mixing up the current teams would be the way to go...although we couldn't force people into them.

And although I nothing comes to mind yet...a twist in the rules would certainly make it more interesting.

Master Zen · April 16, 2003, 04:21

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

GS is a bit of a different bird, from what I am reading. It is a team in a very real sense, because we all know each other, and we share a kindrid spirit, for the most part. Now, if other members of other teams do not feel the same, OK. People should be free to do as they wish, and so should we.

We are not better, nor worse, than any other team. We are a team though. That has been my sense from the get go. It has also been my hope that these teams would continue in some fashion or other. If others do not feel the same, so be it.

No offense but GS does not hold a monopoly on team spirit and the kindred between your team members can most certainly apply to all other teams.

The point of this new demo game is IMO to give a lighter approach to the concept, therefore it would be nice if smaller but more "mixed" teams could be formed.

redstar1 · April 16, 2003, 04:22

I'm happy to design a map, been doing a bit of this recently, just messing about trying to gain inspiration to start a few SP games!

notyoueither · April 16, 2003, 04:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

No offense but GS does not hold a monopoly on team spirit and the kindred between your team members can most certainly apply to all other teams.

The point of this new demo game is IMO to give a lighter approach to the concept, therefore it would be nice if smaller but more "mixed" teams could be formed.

Feel free to form a team on your own lines of thought.

However, do you seek to fit us with the straight-jacket of your own views?

BigFree · April 16, 2003, 05:20

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

Feel free to form a team on your own lines of thought.

However, do you seek to fit us with the straight-jacket of your own views?

Well I'm not sure what you mean by "us," since I don't see very many GS member's in this thread as of yet saying they would want to be on the same team for a 2nd game.

When I was in school, I remember instructor's, even in College, forming groups or teams for what ever reason, out of member's from different clique's, even seperating 'friends' sometimes. The reason they did this was to teach us that we can also learn from someone who is not familiar with you or the way you think. We can learn from someone who is totally different form ourselves. It may have been tough at first, but people eventually settled in and made new friends inside these groups. People even learned new things since ideas that had never been introduced to them were.

I'm not asking you to get rid of your current friends, but to embrace new ones in a setting where you can be both the student and the teacher. It would make Apolyton stronger community because of it. It's when someone new comes in here and asks a question that really changes the way we are thinking about the way we play our games sometimes.

FrustratedPoet · April 16, 2003, 05:22

It's hard for me to contemplate getting involved in another DG while the current one is so busy. It's hard enough for me to keep up with the current one and try to contribute in any meaningful way without starting another.

I'd like to play in another MP DemoGame eventually, but not yet. Count me out for now.

Good luck with it anyway guys!

/edit: For the record, I would be very happy to stay on GS for a second game sometime in the future (if they'd want me). I've had fun in GS so far. However, it would also be fun to play with a new group, and doing so would have a few advantages over sticking with the same bunch. Descisions, descisions...

Aeson · April 16, 2003, 05:28

Sounds like a great idea. Maybe make it a more public version? I think the most enjoyable and interesting parts of this game so far have been the times when teams went public with (dis)information...

As for team formation, I would join any team that had a name comprised completely of vowels, decided to play OCC, and/or used orange as their colors! I wouldn't fit in well on a roleplaying team though, I have a hard enough time trying to define my inborn character.

--------------

GS is a lot of fun for me. I mainly joined because the strat forum had gotten ratehr quiet, and it seems a lot of those discussions have moved into the GS forum. That said, it would be fun to be on other teams and get to know and annoy other people.