Civs in Civ3: Conquests - Page 8

Panag · July 13, 2003, 15:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Heresson
Modern Jews have much less to do with ancient Hebrews than modern-days Greeks.

Israel made the desert bloom? Cheap propaganda, and nayway, Libya also did...

and you have been in Israel off course and seen all the fruits and such there where 35 years ago there was only wasteland , ......

can you please stop with your BS in this thread , ......

Patroklos · July 13, 2003, 16:11

Panag,

I find it odd that you ask others to stop with the "BS" by adding more yourself, and you bieng the prime propogator of it. Stop being a reactionary, and if you must react do it with some semblance of dignity and intelligence.

And as for some of you who egg him on, your one liners are less intelligent than Panag's replies, as at least he thinks he is providing details that back his argument up.

Topic is about civs in Conquests. Obvioulsy enough people want Isreal in, and we have argued why and why not to dealth in a circular arguement, so why keep going for the juggular when obviously we are not going to convince anyone one way or the other.

I say we just change the topic to the Kmer. Not enough civs in that category, big geographic gap in that area on the real world map, definetly were a power to be reckoned with in their day, prolific city builders. What do you all think?

Tassadar500 · July 13, 2003, 16:23

I dont know about the Kmer. I would rather see the Nubians in.

The Mad Monk · July 13, 2003, 16:33

Heresson, I was not commenting on whether Israel is more deserving of being in the game or not, I was commenting on the best set of attributes if it is in the game. Libya made the desert bloom as well? Fine, if they make it into the game they can be agricultural too.

As it is, your comment was worse than useless.

The Mad Monk · July 13, 2003, 16:35

I really don't know much about the Kmer. Could you point me towards some good sites on them?

Panag · July 13, 2003, 17:00

Quote:

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I really don't know much about the Kmer. Could you point me towards some good sites on them?

hi ,

www.khmer.org

www.learnkhmer.com

www.khmerinstitute.org

www.kampuchea.com

www.khmernews.com

www.khmerlanguage.com

just do a search with the word " khmer " , .....

have a nice day

The Mad Monk · July 13, 2003, 17:49

Yes, but are they good sites?

Even I can run a search and start picking at random.

Sheik · July 13, 2003, 21:13

Quote:

No. Your responce to it is rubbish; The French doesn't seem to aid USA anymore, do they? They were needed at the start, Israel is dependant from USA all the time.That's a big difference.

Israel is a new nation. Just like the US once needed support Israel does. Israel does plan to be free of US aid at some time.

Sheik · July 13, 2003, 21:15

I don't know anything about khmer either. Anyone from Khmer here?

Panag · July 13, 2003, 21:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheik
I don't know anything about khmer either. Anyone from Khmer here?

hi ,

there are some people from cambodia ;

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go to "members" , list by "country" , .....

have a nice day

Azeem · July 13, 2003, 22:17

I'm partly of Khmer descent.

CharlesBHoff · July 14, 2003, 03:13

How about the Viking being than civilation as they did have than culture an did cross the ocean to settle in Canada, Greenland and Iceland.

CharlesBHoff · July 14, 2003, 03:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Orz
Why the existence of Israel *as a civ* is so important? Well, they are definitely/maybe (Armenia) the only old civilization left from the ancient times. And - there are the Americans. How many jews live in America and how many in Israel? Irish (Celts?) should have quite a large amount of descendants in USA also, although I (again) do not know the number... Anyway, I believe that the scientific leaders are the field where the Jews (not Israel) shine brightly, very brightly.

Considering Carthage and Celts are in the list, adding Israel does not sound unjust in spite of their geographically diffuse culture. I'd prefer to see a SE Asian civilization and Ethiopia instead of those, though, because those are surviviving and quite large, unlike the Celts, Aztecs and Iroquis - the "big losers" - and the Jews whose long history is much different.

When talking about cultures overlapping, then whole Europe and Middle east is a ever-changing ever-evolving mix of cultures, starting with the Greeks and ending with the Americans. One culture has become another. I'm not even talking about if the American civ (USA) ever WAS in ancient age! Even the English Civ is a synthesis of Greco-Roman, Celtic and Scandinavian culture!!!

The America Indian have a culture for a long time in America and the reason they live than simple life style was that they live in peace with nature. Weather can get petty nasy in America our Harricame and Torado can do damage to builting big time. We can get than Hurricame that can have wind speed of 200 mile per hour hitting our cities in the Southern states. There is now than 6th cat of Hurricame as in the 1990's Guam got hit by than strong packing wind of 220 to 230 miles per hour with gust of up to 250 miles per hour. Plus we have many earthquate in America espicial on the West Coast. My Mother came from your country.

Heresson · July 14, 2003, 03:59

Quote:

and you have been in Israel off course and seen all the fruits and such there where 35 years ago there was only wasteland , ......

I haven't been. I don't doubt in the progress of cultivation in Israel. I've heard wonderful stories about it. But this phrase sounds like cheap propaganda (heard it before).

Quote:

can you please stop with your BS in this thread , ......

You're rude.

Quote:

Heresson, I was not commenting on whether Israel is more deserving of being in the game or not, I was commenting on the best set of attributes if it is in the game. Libya made the desert bloom as well? Fine, if they make it into the game they can be agricultural too.

My mistake, sorry.

Tassadar500 · July 14, 2003, 14:27

CharlesBHoff the Vikings are already in. Please stop the POLITICAL talk now. It has nothing to do with the thread. Ming has already told everyone.

vmxa1 · July 14, 2003, 16:12

Heresson, what could be more rude that you constantly disrupting the thread with your polictics? Some agree some don't. Others are not interested, but nearly all would prefer not to discuss it here. We get enough of it out side of the game.
If you have some non political thoughts on the game, express them, if not stop crashing the party.

Sheik · July 14, 2003, 18:01

Here is some info on Khmer I thought I would post:

Quote:

The Khmer or Angkor Civilization came into existence during the period from 802* to 1431 A.D. and stretched as far as the modern Thailand-Burma Border in the West and Wat Phou of Laos in the North during its peak.
Its emergence lies in the fact that the ancient Khmer rulers adopted a right political doctrine of its time, which enforce the unity among people. Moreover, they had developed an intelligent irrigation system to control the water of the great Mekong River for agricultures, which enhanced its prosperity.* The Khmer Civilization had long been perished over 5 centuries ago, but it left outstanding monuments such as the great Khmer temples of Angkor Wat and Bayon and numerous unique sculptures like Apsara.
The word "Angkor" is derived Sanskrit, an ancient Indian language, of "Nagara" which means "City".* Angkor Wat literally means "City of Temple" and Angkor Thom "The Magnificent City".
No doubts, the ancient Khmers were great masters of stone carving. As we can see today the unarguable evidences of various Angkor temples lying on the vast plain of Siemreap, or even beyond its present-day border to the Preah Vihear at Dangrek Mountain, Phnomrung and Phimai in Thailand and Wat Phu in Laos. All these were created and carefully crafts* by the ancient Khmers in successive centuries. This seems to contradict with the normal and easy-going life of the local Khmer people and villagers of their time.* What drive them to put such an extraordinary efforts and time will be explained in the next chapters.

And some other information:

Quote:

Since the economy of the Khmer civilization was based mainly on agriculture, the majority of the people should have been the peasants or the farmers living in the villages.* It was not clearly certain that there were any small landowners in the kingdom since most inscriptions often referred to large landowners of the elite class or of the temples.

Quote:

It was estimated by George Grosliers, a French archaeologist, that the total agricultural land of the Angkor Empire was about 70,000 hectares. Being used to cultivate crop two or three times in one year, the land was able to support the densely populated Angkor kingdom. This mastery over the water is one of the major factor for the rise of Khmer Civilization.

So I assume they would be agricultural. What would their UU be? Maybe something to do with the Khmer Rouge?

The Mad Monk · July 14, 2003, 18:26

I doubt it -- not only are the Khmer Rouge despised the world over, but its only that a civilization would be given a unique unit that didn't appear until nearly five centuries after that civilization had ceased to exist.

Orz · July 16, 2003, 06:47

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

some civ's really should get three traits instead of two , others only one , ......

have a nice day

Actually I do agree with it, it makes sense with some civilizations, although I think that there should be a possible choice of taking three commercial abilities thus making a country *very* commercial, like the choices would be like:
Country 1: Scientific, Scientific, Expansionistic (UK)
Country 2: Religious, Industrious, Militaristic (Israel)
Country 3: Scientific, Scientific, Expansionistic (Russia)
...I cannot imagine a civilization with three single-type traits? Maybe the mayans could be 3xReligious.

Well, actually this is a game, anyway so it is maybe not so big a problem to choose just two. I think that UK has shined in science more than in commerce, but then they'd become too similar with Russia, I guess. I wonder what this seafaring means...

The Emperor Fabulous · July 16, 2003, 21:06

So the Dutch and the Portuguese are in...

I guess this goes along with their new "seafaring" trait

SeferKoheleth · July 17, 2003, 07:26

It looks like Israel is going to be screwed AGAIN, as Firaxis caves into the Jew-haters in Europe and the Muslim world who can't tolerate the idea that *gasp* those damn Christ-killers still exist and *gasp* have started defending themselves rather than being good little Jews who board the trains without a problem...

If Israel isn't included, I won't buy the expansion-- just as I didn't buy PTW because Israel wasn't included. I won't give my money to cowards who cave into hatred.

Sheik · July 17, 2003, 10:03

If Israel isn't in I would hope GhengisFarb finishes his Ben Gurion so we can mod them in.

I hope Atari is paying attention because it seems like many of us loyal civ players want Israel in the game.

FrustratedPoet · July 17, 2003, 10:40

Quote:

Originally posted by SeferKoheleth
It looks like Israel is going to be screwed AGAIN, as Firaxis caves into the Jew-haters in Europe and the Muslim world who can't tolerate the idea that *gasp* those damn Christ-killers still exist and *gasp* have started defending themselves rather than being good little Jews who board the trains without a problem...

If Israel isn't included, I won't buy the expansion-- just as I didn't buy PTW because Israel wasn't included. I won't give my money to cowards who cave into hatred.

The bit about boarding the trains was the funniest.

FrustratedPoet · July 17, 2003, 10:43

Quote:

hope Atari is paying attention because it seems like many of us loyal civ players want Israel in the game.

Yes it seems like some kind of Hebrew Civ would be very popular with the fans. I hope it'll happen one day.

It would be nice if we could get one, if at least for no other reason than people would stop whinging about there not being one.

Yahweh Sabaoth · July 17, 2003, 10:58

Quote:

Originally posted by SeferKoheleth
It looks like Israel is going to be screwed AGAIN, as Firaxis caves into the Jew-haters in Europe and the Muslim world who can't tolerate the idea that *gasp* those damn Christ-killers still exist and *gasp* have started defending themselves rather than being good little Jews who board the trains without a problem...

If Israel isn't included, I won't buy the expansion-- just as I didn't buy PTW because Israel wasn't included. I won't give my money to cowards who cave into hatred.

Well, there is the OTHER side of the coin: Jewish groups that do not want to see Israel possibly depicted in a negative light in a video game.

There are definitely a lot of anti-semites in the world, but how active is the anti-semite lobby at Atari? And how much influence do Muslims, who seems to be the de facto target for all non-muslims in today's world, really have at Atari either?

Doesn't it seem a bit absurd to you to think that Muslims are calling the shots on C3C? Why would Abu Bakr even be depicted in the game? That doesn't exactly follow Islamic doctrine re: icons...

vmxa1 · July 17, 2003, 12:00

You know it is just possible that a given Civ not being included in an expansion pack has nothing to do with any polictics or pressure groups.
It is not written anywhere that all things are a conspiracy. Some times it is just happen stance.

Yahweh Sabaoth · July 17, 2003, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
You know it is just possible that a given Civ not being included in an expansion pack has nothing to do with any polictics or pressure groups.
It is not written anywhere that all things are a conspiracy. Some times it is just happen stance.

Well, I would say that this is also true.

Harovan · July 17, 2003, 12:30

Quote:

Originally posted by SeferKoheleth
It looks like Israel is going to be screwed AGAIN, as Firaxis caves into the Jew-haters in Europe and the Muslim world who can't tolerate the idea that *gasp* those damn Christ-killers still exist and *gasp* have started defending themselves rather than being good little Jews who board the trains without a problem...

If Israel isn't included, I won't buy the expansion-- just as I didn't buy PTW because Israel wasn't included. I won't give my money to cowards who cave into hatred.

I can't wait to see Israel included someday and then see you ***** and whine about the leaderhead ("It's so shitty, it was certainly drawn by an anti-semite to show jews in a bad light"), the choice of traits ("We are religious, scientific, commercial, industrious and agricultural, but not militaristic, expansionist and seafaring as those jew haters show us") the cities and the leaders.

I'm not against the Hebrews to be included as civilization. But permanently *****ing and whining and seeing an anti-semitic plot everywhere won't help your cause.

Master Zen · July 18, 2003, 03:26

Couldn't have said it any better SR...

CharlesBHoff · July 18, 2003, 04:24

Quote:

Originally posted by SeferKoheleth
It looks like Israel is going to be screwed AGAIN, as Firaxis caves into the Jew-haters in Europe and the Muslim world who can't tolerate the idea that *gasp* those damn Christ-killers still exist and *gasp* have started defending themselves rather than being good little Jews who board the trains without a problem...

If Israel isn't included, I won't buy the expansion-- just as I didn't buy PTW because Israel wasn't included. I won't give my money to cowards who cave into hatred.

Have you ever think that people are tried of being called anti-semita because they criticed Israel and the action of they government. Well I criticed the America government and it prejury commitee leader also than in public too. Firaxis didnot cave in to Jew-hater in Europe and the Muslim World to leave Israel out. Some poster point out Israel wasnot than nation for a long enought period to include in the game.

Also people are getting tried of Jew cry about the 6 million who die in WW II as they where the only one who really matter or they only one who die in WW II. I estime that may-be 150,000,000 to 200,000,000 people die in world war II. We will never learn how many because records where destory in the war or people just didnot have the time to keep accurate record.