Some well-earned Microsoft bashing

Thue · June 19, 2003, 16:57

I was pointed to the MSN search engine in this Slashdot article about how microsoft planned to compete with google.

One of the comments pointed out the result of a search for linux in the msn search engine:

Amazon.com
Buy Linux software at the Amazon.com software store.

Not what I would call the most interesting, respected or representative linux site on the web, but does have some relevance.
Introducing Linux
Introducing Linux Find the latest news and information on this operating system.

Links to a linux portion of Microsofts site! Not What I would expect to be the center of linux on the web...
Alternatives to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP
Learn about the Microsoft alternatives and how to move to them from open source products.

Unbiased, objective links rating. Suuuureeee.

Boris Godunov · June 19, 2003, 16:59

Microsoft just out-bid one of my clients for a candidate they were seeking to hire. I've been given the greenlight to start raiding their staff.

Avast, ye scurvy dogs! Prepare to be boarded, arrrrrr!

Asher · June 19, 2003, 17:15

Apparently I'm the only one with common sense here.

Do you understand how Overture, etc. work? That's what MS is modeling the revamped MSN search after.

MSN search is targetted towards the mainstream user, not google-ites.

There are two levels that companies can pay for to get their results up top: Featured (top), and Sponsored (right below featured), which are then followed by the regular search results

So congratulations! You just looked at the 3 Featured sites and drew conclusions about MSN's algorithm, when in reality you're looking at advertisements. And what's more, all of this information is clearly available to anyone viewing the site -- if you click the all-caps link called "ABOUT" next to all the headings, it explains it to you in no-nonsense English.

If you looked at the actual results, Linux.org is first with sites like LinuxJournal up there as well. Next time, why don't you look into something before you troll about it and make an ass out of yourself?

The IQ at Slashdot is embarassingly low.

JohnT · June 19, 2003, 17:17

So when you go to Google and type in the name of a book, and the first link or three is about how to buy the thing, do you post threads about it as well?

Fve Crathva · June 19, 2003, 22:46

Google's sponsored links are on the right hand side of the page, on a pink background. They make it far easier to tell what you're getting (oddly, MS is usually the one that makes things easier).

SP

Asher · June 19, 2003, 22:48

MS is in it to make money, Google gets its money from licensing the technology. The sponsored-link thing is basically useless to them in terms of money.

Think of the different target markets. MSN Search is targeted towards MSN users, people who think computers are scary...they're less likely to complain about that.

Whereas people who use Google tend to be more refined internet surfers, and get angered by it.

It's all about demographics and intent.

Urban Ranger · June 20, 2003, 00:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
MSN search is targetted towards the mainstream user, not google-ites.

Most mainstream users use Google, because it yields the best results. Other search engines are not as good because they can be commandeered by stupid tricks (e.g. putting some keywords a thousand times in your HTML documents).

Agathon · June 20, 2003, 00:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

MSN search is targetted towards the mainstream user, not google-ites.

Translation: it's for idiots.

Sava · June 20, 2003, 00:03

MICROSHAFT BASHING!!! LET ME GRAB MY BAT

+1 ASHER!!!!

Asher · June 20, 2003, 00:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Most mainstream users use Google

MSN and Google technically have almost equivalent marketshare, IIRC.

Agathon · June 20, 2003, 00:08

The MSN sites suck big time. They are all for the moms and pops and teens who are wrecking the internet with their crud. Kill them all and wipe their hard drives.

Agathon · June 20, 2003, 00:09

Microsoft sucks and Bill is a c*nt.

There, that's my ten cents.

Asher · June 20, 2003, 00:10

I despise MSN.

Too fruity.

DinoDoc · June 20, 2003, 00:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I've been given the greenlight to start raiding their staff.

What can you offer them MS can't?

Asher · June 20, 2003, 00:31

Probably permanent employment.

A large portion of MS employees are contract workers, and due to previous legal disputes, contract workers can't work longer than one year.

At that point they can interview for permanent positions and might be hired as an employee, but most are out of a job and can't apply to be a contract employee again for another 180 days.

They also have to sign one-year non-compete agreements which basically cover anything MS makes, which is pretty much everything in software...

MichaeltheGreat · June 20, 2003, 01:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
The MSN sites suck big time. They are all for the moms and pops and teens who are wrecking the internet with their crud. Kill them all and wipe their hard drives.

Hey, we finally agree on something!

FrustratedPoet · June 20, 2003, 04:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
MSN search is targetted towards the mainstream user, not google-ites.

Google isn't mainstream? Eh?

uh Clem · June 20, 2003, 07:04

Gee, a thread that gives me an excuse to post this excerpt from an MSN web page I saw a few months ago.

The circled headline does not go with the photograph of the man on the left. I think.

JohnT · June 20, 2003, 08:49

You have featured sites, sponsored sites, and then web links... all neatly formatted and labelled in ALL CAPS.

What, exactly, is so difficult to understand and "evil" about the following layout?

Quote:

FEATURED SITES - ABOUT

1. Amazon.com
Buy Linux software at the Amazon.com software store.
www.amazon.com

2. Introducing Linux Find the latest news and information on this operating system.
tech.msn.com

3. Alternatives to Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP
Learn about the Microsoft alternatives and how to move to them from open source products.
www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/migration

SPONSORED SITES - ABOUT
. Linux in 5 Steps: Free Guide from HP
Learn how to combine the savings and open flexibility of Linux with stability, reliability and global support. Fill out a simple form and download a free executive/technology guide to Linux.
www.hp.connectthe.com

. Linux Administration - 5 Days $2095
Learn from experts. Hands-on Linux System Administration courses in 40 cities provide a thorough introduction to Linux core technologies, system administration, and network administration.
www.traininghott.com

. California Digital: Ultradense Servers
California Digital has acquired the server division of VA Linux. Offering a variety of Linux-based server solutions and clusters using the latest Intel Itanium 2 and Intel Xeon processors.
www.californiadigital.com

WEB DIRECTORY SITES - ABOUT

4. Linux Online
Provides support, advice on getting started, a bookstore and sections for downloading applications, hardware, and distributions.
www.linux.org

5. Linux Journal
Previews the upcoming issue and presents selected articles from past issues. Includes subscription details and related links.
www.linuxjournal.com

6. LinuxLinks.com
Index of more than 2,000 Linux operating-system links focuses on games, programming and utilities.
www.linuxlinks.com

7. Linux Utilities
Peruse this collection of commercial, shareware and free programs for Linux and follow links to download locations.
home.xnet.com/~blatura/linapps.shtml

8. LinuxHQ
Provides users with a variety of resources, including updated kernel downloads, development news, FAQs, documents, software archives and links.
www.linuxhq.com

9. Red Hat - Support and Docs
Find support information and documentation for users of Red Hat's Linux distribution Find details on security and GPG signatures.
www.redhat.com/apps/support

10. Linuxnewbie.org
Guide to getting started with Linux includes help files written for the beginner. Also find articles and discussion boards for newbies.
www.linuxnewbie.org

11. Red Hat Linux
Learn about this popular Linux distribution, including packages, support, features and the benefits of Linux. Buy the latest version online.
www.redhat.com/products

12. LinuxNewbies
Geared at people with little or no experience with Linux, LinuxNewbies teaches the what, how and why of the operating system. Read the FAQ.
linuxnewbies.editthispage.com

13. YoLinux - Linux Tutorials
Browse this index of Linux tutorials and get instruction on installation, basic Linux administration, and setting up a workstation and Linux-based server.
www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS

14. Learning Linux
New users to the Linux OS can find downloads, forums, FAQs, breaking news, and book reviews. Select a topic and search for stories, comments, and articles.
www.learninglinux.com

15. LinuxNovice.org
Extensive resource is aimed at novice Linux users and includes sections on tips, news, security issues, software, and howto documents. Find out how to contribute.
www.linuxnovice.org

Asher · June 20, 2003, 08:56

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Google isn't mainstream? Eh?

This may shock you, but AOL Search and MSN Search both compete very well with Google in terms of marketshare.

Alex · June 20, 2003, 09:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Think of the different target markets. MSN Search is targeted towards MSN users, people who think computers are scary...they're less likely to complain about that.

Do they think that computers are scary because of MSN or does MSN make they think that everything computer-related is scary, except MSN?

FrustratedPoet · June 20, 2003, 09:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

This may shock you, but AOL Search and MSN Search both compete very well with Google in terms of marketshare.

That doesn't shock me at all. In fact, it seems to support the view that Google is a "mainstream" (whatever that means) search engine.

Asher · June 20, 2003, 09:14

Of course it's mainstream, what I meant was the "mainstream" consumers that don't care about Google. The people who like purty colors and parental controls.

Alex · June 20, 2003, 10:26

The kind of people who use MSN Explorer as their browser, huh?

Well... I... actually like to use it from time to time...

Thue · June 20, 2003, 10:57

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT
You have featured sites, sponsored sites, and then web links... all neatly formatted and labelled in ALL CAPS.

Small caps. In gray with a white backgraound. I missed they, anyway.

I think google's way of including add is much more clear and honest - I would go crazy havin to scroll through 6 add to get to the context each time I search.

Fve Crathva · June 20, 2003, 20:59

Also, I suspect that a lot of people don't actually read much of the "support text" on search pages. Especially support text that's the same size as the rest of the text, and done in a medium grey. I certainly skip to the descriptions of what I'm looking for and ignore URLs, categories, and all the other extraneous crap that has little bearing on my search.

SP

Skanky Burns · June 21, 2003, 00:09

Much ado about nothing. It is stated on the site what the links are.

chequita guevara · June 21, 2003, 00:19

Google, Yahoo!, and MSN are almost equal is percent of usagen (just under 30%). AOL is ten percentage points behind the three of them.

I've had to become an expert on search engines in the last two days. I have to promote a new site @work.

chequita guevara · June 21, 2003, 00:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Thue

Small caps. In gray with a white backgraound. I missed they, anyway.

I think google's way of including add is much more clear and honest - I would go crazy havin to scroll through 6 add to get to the context each time I search.

Depending on the subject, you may have to scroll through more than that. And then there are additional links running down the side. Don't kid yourself. AFAIK, on the Open Directory Project doesn't bump paying customers up.

Boris Godunov · June 21, 2003, 00:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

This may shock you, but AOL Search and MSN Search both compete very well with Google in terms of marketshare.

Quote:

The 7 largest search engines on the web are:

1. Google 53.2% (+2.1%)

2. Yahoo 20.4% (+0.5)

3. MSN Search 9.1% (+0.7)

4. Terra Lycos 3.7% (-0.6%)

5. AOL Search 2.9% (+0.7%)

6. Altavista 2.8% (-1%)

7. Ixquick 2.2% (-0.14%)

Those numbers are from August 2002, and from what I understand, Google has increased its global market share since then. Doesn't look to me like MSN and AOL compete too well at all!