Can they only create one leader?

mimi · June 25, 2003, 08:54

If a unit generates a leader is it then "not allowed" to generate another? In a recent game I had 5 leaders, all generated by different units, but I had tried to use the previous leader generating unit to make a new leader and it never succeeded. Just wondering if it's bad dice rolls, or if my "Super Dooper Knight Killing Archer" is doomed to never have a "The Second" after his name.

GhengisFarb™ · June 25, 2003, 09:17

Quote:

Originally posted by mimi
If a unit generates a leader is it then "not allowed" to generate another? In a recent game I had 5 leaders, all generated by different units, but I had tried to use the previous leader generating unit to make a new leader and it never succeeded. Just wondering if it's bad dice rolls, or if my "Super Dooper Knight Killing Archer" is doomed to never have a "The Second" after his name.

Once the unit generates a leader it cannot generate another one, which is why the game allows you to rename it, so you can keep track of which ones have generated leaders.

I think it can generate another one after its been upgraded though, not sure on that however.

CerberusIV · June 25, 2003, 10:23

Once a unit gets to be "Elite*" after it generates a leader it can't generate another.

BUT if you later upgrade the unit it goes back to being veteran and can again be promoted to Elite and can then create another leader. AFAIK a unit can create a leader, be upgraded, create another leader and so on unitl it can't be upgraded anymore.

Wittlich · June 25, 2003, 12:05

True. If an elite generates a leader, and then later is upgraded, the unit can possibly produce another leader...but remember, the game will only allow you to have one (1) Great Leader active at one time.

Panag · June 25, 2003, 12:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Wittlich
True. If an elite generates a leader, and then later is upgraded, the unit can possibly produce another leader...but remember, the game will only allow you to have one (1) Great Leader active at one time.

hi ,

not if you start with several of them , .......

you can start true the editor with as many as you want , .....

have a nice day

vmxa1 · June 25, 2003, 12:50

Yes I have made a leader and then upgrade that unit and made another leader several times.
No need to rename (I do though), as you will have an * in the name anyway.

mimi · June 25, 2003, 14:29

AHA! I suppose this was documented somewhere, but, well, I'm not big on reading instructions - that will explain why I never get leaders if I keep attacking with a sucessful leader-generator. And here I thought I was just having bad luck! And to think I packed in a game 'cause I was playing miltaristic civ and only got two leaders in nearly 3 eras - got po'ed and started over as the French 'cause, well, I figured no point in being militaristic and I like pink...

Brundlefly · June 25, 2003, 14:50

The only times I've gotten a leader is when I play militaristic. I'm lucky if I can even get an Elite troop without a militaristic civ. Maybe I'm playing at too high of a level (Emperor).

vmxa1 · June 25, 2003, 15:58

I think it is the civ not the level. I have had many leaders at emp and deity with China, but I was playing some AU games at monarch with Cleo and Hammy and would go for 1000's of year without a leader. I actually went over 5700 years in the game before I got a leader in two seperate games.
Also it seems to me (not saying it is a fact) that PTW has made it harder to get leaders.
My record for pre PTW was 55 leaders and 10 or more was common. Now 5 is good. Of course map sizes and the number of battles has an impact, but still....

Martock · June 25, 2003, 16:24

Umm...I have to disagree here and perhaps it's just my luck but I had a horseman unit who generated a leader and did the same 4 turns later. this horseman i named 2nd Cavalry Regiment when he first generated a leader, that leader went off to build Sun Tzu's thingy...4 turns later, that unit did it again...when it brought up the name, i left it as it was...but the name changed to 2nd Cavalry Regiment * (the * wasn't there before)...that leader went off to found an army...sadly the 2nd Cavalry Regiment was lost to a darn Samurai a turn after the second victory. This horseman NEVER lived long enough to be upgraded as i don't bother to research Chivalry.

Until this happend, I had always thought that named units could only produce 1 GL. This has changed my mind.

vmxa1 · June 25, 2003, 17:27

If you are trying to say one unit made two leaders without an upgrade in between you are mistaken. That can not happen. Either you had an upgrade in there or you are confused. Sorry that is not anything to disagree about it is a fact.

dexters · June 25, 2003, 17:31

I average about 4 leaders in a game (ending long before 2050) if I play non militaristic on a huge map.

vmxa1 · June 25, 2003, 17:54

Martock got to CFC and look at the FAQ and find the scoop on leaders.
CFC is Civfanatics.

bobbo008 · June 25, 2003, 20:10

i always hate using a leader for fear of needing him later in the game...

Rhothaerill · June 25, 2003, 23:23

Quote:

Originally posted by bobbo008
i always hate using a leader for fear of needing him later in the game...

Me too, but if you don't use him you won't get another one. One of those Catch-22 situations.

What I hate most is when you get one defensively and then lose him the same turn when that unit gets attacked again. I had that happen twice in the same turn one time (I had cavalry roving into the enemy land to cut saltpeter and luxuries...get attacked, make elite, get attacked, great leader, get attacked, unit dies, great leader dies...twice!

)

vmxa1 · June 26, 2003, 00:17

Try to not send elites out on those missions. I prefer vets. This way you can get some damage and be promoted and gain back the lost HP. You also do not generate any leaders to get captured.
Plus any barracks can crank out a replacment for the vet if it dies.

Rhothaerill · June 26, 2003, 01:40

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Try to not send elites out on those missions. I prefer vets. This way you can get some damage and be promoted and gain back the lost HP. You also do not generate any leaders to get captured.
Plus any barracks can crank out a replacment for the vet if it dies.

They weren't elites at the time I sent them out. They were each attacked three times...once to make elite, once to generate the leader, and once to die. I've never seen that rapid a progression before and it happened twice in one turn.

vmxa1 · June 26, 2003, 02:10

Were you able to see the troops coming form far away? Where they near a city, where reenforcemments could come?
I guess it can't always be avoided, but individual units and small groups, should be keep away from excessive danger.

Mad Bomber · June 26, 2003, 02:56

Some quick facts about leader generation:

1) You can only have one GL active at a time
2) An elite may only generate one GL (it may be upgraded, promoted and produce a second leader)
3) The odds off creating a GL is 1/16, 1/12 if you have built Heroic Epic. 1/32:1/24 when defending.
4) Militaristic civs increase the rate of promotion, not the rates of getting a GL.

The GL creation rules have been given directly from programmers at Firaxis and I have seen nothing in any of my games that dispute them (well over 300 games played)

mimi · June 26, 2003, 07:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

4) Militaristic civs increase the rate of promotion, not the rates of getting a GL.

WHAT??? I thought they increased the % of getting leader. That's a sucky trait then, if it only increases the chances of promotion. I get promoted all the time as Babs - just sit in my city and wait for the unending attackers = lots of elites.

Only 1 game did I ever get more than 2 leaders in the entire game and that was that evil AU 208 where I had 5 in the first era. Made me think China's a great civ, but I've played them since and nothing...

Dr. A. Cula · June 26, 2003, 07:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhothaerill

Me too, but if you don't use him you won't get another one. One of those Catch-22 situations.

What I hate most is when you get one defensively and then lose him the same turn when that unit gets attacked again. I had that happen twice in the same turn one time (I had cavalry roving into the enemy land to cut saltpeter and luxuries...get attacked, make elite, get attacked, great leader, get attacked, unit dies, great leader dies...twice!

)

That's nothing. I've seen worse: I had 16 veteran cavalries that landed in 4 different locations from galleons. Each group captured an enemy city without losses. When the enemy counter-attacked, it took back the cities and destroyed 4 great leaders in the process. 2 turns later, I lost 2 more leaders the same way.

Top that, if you can!

Kuciwalker · June 26, 2003, 07:43

mimi... increasing the chance of promotion DOES increase the chance of getting a leader. You have more elite units, therefore you will get more leaders.

vmxa1 · June 26, 2003, 11:44

Dr. A. Cula I can not top that and I do not want to be able to either. That us nasty.

skywalker exactly and China is one of the best civs with a perfectly place UU.

Mad Bomber has stated the facts. These are the rules period, NO 2nd leader without a promotion, no matter who says they has seen it.

Rhothaerill · June 26, 2003, 12:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. A. Cula
That's nothing. I've seen worse: I had 16 veteran cavalries that landed in 4 different locations from galleons. Each group captured an enemy city without losses. When the enemy counter-attacked, it took back the cities and destroyed 4 great leaders in the process. 2 turns later, I lost 2 more leaders the same way.

Top that, if you can!

That is worse! You were probably shaking your head in disgust.

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1Were you able to see the troops coming form far away? Where they near a city, where reenforcemments could come?
I guess it can't always be avoided, but individual units and small groups, should be keep away from excessive danger.

No I couldn't see them before they attacked me. I sent those two cavs out expecting them to be killed though. Their mission was simply to cut the only remaining saltpeter resource and the only remaining luxury for that particular civ. Both succeeded, and then got counterattacked.

Mad Bomber · June 27, 2003, 21:07

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1

Mad Bomber has stated the facts. These are the rules period, NO 2nd leader without a promotion, no matter who says they has seen it.

unless they can produce a screenshot or saved game for verifiation...

vmxa1 · June 28, 2003, 00:50

I would be suspious of even that.

Rhothaerill · June 28, 2003, 02:51

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I would be suspious of even that.

Anything can be doctored up. Just look at actors in movies compared to the way they look in real life.

Seriously though, take a look at the military advisor board and there is space for only one leader at a time. If you somehow got two, then it must be a bug (since I don't think you can even mod for two leaders at a time).

Mad Bomber · June 28, 2003, 14:08

A screenshot could be doctored, but a saved game would be more difficult. As Rhothaerill pointed out this is hardcoded and would mean going into the program code and changing it manually, not an easy task. However I agree with VMXA's and Rhothaerill's comments in principal.

Of course it would be a bug if there were two leaders at one time and if this actually happened should be reported to Firaxis tech support.

Panag · June 29, 2003, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

unless they can produce a screenshot or saved game for verifiation...

hi ,

, some can even cheat with those , .....

have a nice day

Kuciwalker · June 29, 2003, 11:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
A screenshot could be doctored, but a saved game would be more difficult. As Rhothaerill pointed out this is hardcoded and would mean going into the program code and changing it manually, not an easy task. However I agree with VMXA's and Rhothaerill's comments in principal.

Of course it would be a bug if there were two leaders at one time and if this actually happened should be reported to Firaxis tech support.

You wouldn't have to go into the game code. There is IIRC already a save game editor out there. You could just plop in another leader.

The reason you don't need to go into the game code is because the only time the game would check if you have a leader is when an elite unit wins a battle and when you view the Military Advisor screen. In the latter case, the game would either a) crash or b) only show one of the leaders.