PEACE diplomatic exchanges

[Maniac]

Great. Just great. While I was sending the above mails to Hercules and johndmuller via my hotmail addy, Hercules was sending me mails to my skynet addy, which I didn't have access to at that time.

Anyway:

Hercules' mail 1:

Hi Mani-Alpha- 3,

Just a holding reply (I know you don't want to stretch the turn beyond limits). Will get back soon. Being discussed at moment.

Earlier Function Drogue, in addition to 2 techs had offered 25ecs with the prospect of maybe some more to reflect our overheads and savings to you in terms of researcjh years. I think I can swing the deal if the ecs is upped to 50 ecs.

Also remember, we have yet to acquire Ind Base and that is an additional cost.to us.

Cap'n Hercules.

Hercules' mail 2. Here he has already increased his demand with 50 ecs.

Hi Mani-Alpha-3, External Ambassador Function Drogue and other functions

We're close to a deal I feel

You will have noted and I know you ( Prime function) have responded to some initial reaction from us to your ( Cycon's) offer.

We are pleased you have established contact with Datajack Roze and discovered she can be difficult/erratic to deal with.

Anyhow

Among the options you offered

were
Ind Base for Ind Auto

and Ind Econ for new tech ( to be discovered by you).

Assuming you mean negotiations as opposed to 'this is our offer take it or leave' , I have secured from my pirate brothers this:

Ind Base for Ind Auto
Ind Econ for new tech, plus

to reflect the overheads we have already incurred; to reflect the delay in the discovery and delivery of a new tech, (the turn after you discovery it, unless Ambassador asks for delay or otherwise). And to reflect, which you don't really seem to acknowledge, the considerable saving in research time we save both of us ( that includes you ). Maybe a reverse opportunity of a similar nature will happen in the future.

As a pact brother, if I hadn't spotted this catch up opportunity (catching up to the Drones and Hive, have you forgotten that), over and beyond the tech for tech deal, we could both be potentially eclipsed by them. I don't think you relish that prospect (nor do we) .

So all we ask is 55.6 ecs (only 30.6 ecs more than External Ambassador Drogue's offer a few communications back). well we may give you 0.6 discount for you own research delay.

This is just over a quarter of our potential cost overheads of 200ecs.

We look forward to a speedy resolution to this as it really has gone on far too long.

Yours

Cap'n Calico Hercules

PS we will also throw in some cases of fine 10 year old XenoRum and some bottles of 'Holy Believer' water we which we guess, you having met Miriam you enjoy annointing yourselves with, for the fun of it.

Then there were some three mails asking if I had received the above two messages, because my two mails sent abot two hours later of course showed no indication I had read his mails.

Maniac,

Cuspidore mail 1:

Cap'n Hercules sent me betime greetings without commenting (directly) on your last communication. He did question whether or not you had read his last message to you, and re-reading your message, I can see how he might have gotten that impression (instead of it being just trying to weasel out of our bet). In addition, I notice that he is sending the messages to a different address (xxpeter_steenbeke@skynet.bexx) than the (xxPeter_Steenbeke@hotmail.comxx) address I have been using, so it is yet another possible indicator in that direction. So I am forwarding another copy of his message to you just in case. If in fact you have been missing all his sweet scented letters, it is no wonder you think that we Pirates are all one-dimensional Evil BlackGuards; perhaps looking in that mailbox you will discover all of the offers you have been hoping to get, but couldn't bring yourself to ask for. In any event, please let me know whether or not your reply addressed the proposition and if not why the hell not perhaps you might address it, if for no other reason than to re-settle Cap'n H and my wager, which he is apparently reluctant to give up on.

Cusp

Cuspidore mail 2:

Thank you for your counterproposal; you will no doubt be pleased to know that the terms of your proposal were sufficiently low to win my wager with Cap'n Hercules about the nature of your response. I hope that you don't find that provocative, as I appreciate your consciious attempt to reduce the temperature of the discussion and I am sure that I will enjoy the bottle of Cap'n Hercules' best XenoRum.



I am uncertain whether Cap'n Hercules is still around tonight, so I don't know when we will be able to exchange views on this trade again, and I do not want to bias the negotiations without his and/or other interested Pirates' input, but in the meanwhile, it could be useful for us in evaluating your proposals and to determine the degree of urgency w/r certain alternatives if you could inform us as to whether or not you are capable of delaying your research by 2 extra turns (we assume that 1 extra is feasible); if so, we would assume that you could revert to just a 1 year delay during your next turn should the need for 2 no longer exist - let us know if you think that not to be true. The possibility of a 2 year delay would come into play particularly if we fail to arrive at an agreement during your turn and/or whatever extension you might end up getting, but it could also factor into the relative merits of your two propositions and possible variants we might dream up.

As I understand the current situation, if you leave your research at 60% you would finish IndBase on your next turn in 2128 (if I still have the year straight), which would require us to deliver IndBase and IndAuto to you this year and would leave no flexibility to deal with your not being offered IndAuto, as whatever tech you had to select would be given to you immediately afterwards and you would then be starting your research from scratch and we would be 10 or 15 years away from IndAuto. A delay of one year would allow us to have the perhaps necessary flexibility under the same assumption of our giving you the two tech next year; this would presumably be the ideal approach. Given our rate of narrowing the distance between our positions, it certainly seems possible that we might eventually come to an agreement, but not until after our next turn has been taken, in which case it would be necessary for you to have delayed your completion date until 2130, a delay of 2 years, if there is going to remain the flexibility to deal with not being offered IndAuto in 2129, hence one of the reasons for enquiring whether or not you think you could set your research rate this turn in such a way that you could go for either a 1 or 2 (or whatever) year delay on your next turn, should that be desired. I do not intend to imply that I want or think we will keep extending these negotiations indefinitely, only to get you thinking about and to let us know what is possible - you could also let us know exactly what the cost of delaying your research really is, as it has been mentioned as a cross you would bear, similar to the ones we have often groused about.



When you hear from us next will I suppose depend on when Cap'n Herc and I and any other interested pirates have had a chance to discuss the trade yet again, hopefully not later than mid-day or so East Coast USA time.



Affectionately ,

the Cuspidore BlackBeard

[Maniac]

Hello Captain Hook?/Calico Hercules,

I already sent you a short unofficial mail today. As I said there in short, I didn't read your mails to skynet until fifteen hours after they were sent. Sorry for that. I was only checking my hotmail yesterday.

Anyway, some eight hours ago I posted a poll about the concrete proposals you and BrownBeard made in your mails from yesterday. Unfortunately only two people have voted up until now, but the results are clear: 100% has chosen to delay our research with only turn instead of the two turns you asked, and 100% has voted NAY to the deal you proposed. Who knows when more people have voted the result will switch to yes, but I can't wait on that. My time limit expires in one hour. Therefore I will delay our research, but I won't offer anything yet in the diplobox.

Friendly greetings,

Mani Alpha-3


>Subject: Re Pirates Vycon negotiation
>Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:03:49 +0100
>
>
>Greetings Prime function Mani-Alpha -3 and External Affairs function
>Drogue
>
>Did you receive my communication to you of yesterday late evening.
>Cuspidore BB thought you were responding to that communique whereas I
>believe you were responding to his earlier initial thoughts.
>
>Plus unusally we haven't heard from either of you today. Is it the
>heatwave weather; is it the Blasterworm thing; are you in intense
>'miami' sessions with Claire F.
>
>Whatever, we look forward to hearing from you soon.
>
>Cap'n Calico Hercules
>

New mails from this night, from Hercules:

Hi Mani-Alpha -3

I have to say I find it astounding that in the middle of intense and crucial negotiations you didn't check all you emails, especially as you use both email addresses regularly. Also when we were all well aware that there was a tight time constraint. You failed to note our response at 9.21 on Friday night and again at 11.15pm. I re emailed at 2.27 , and 2.42 am. Guessing that for some reason you weren't receiving our communications Cuspidore BB further emailed you at 3.44 am Sat with a re send of our proposals, as your 12.43 response and 1.40am response communications seem to refer to Cuspidore's initial views. and not our newest offer based on your own suggested options. I also emailed you at 6.03pm today about whether you received our response or not. Also your Cycon, External Affairs function has been copied in the discussions. A normal courtesy is a response from someone from the Cycon faction to these replies.

And yet, without further discussion/ negotiation ( isn't negotiation/ diplomacy about issues tooing and froing), you post a poll on a non agreed proposal. Well every faction operates differently!!

Til now 10.01 pm GMT I had not received an acknowledgement, though you claim to have sent something. (I 'll check my PM)

Anyhow,

First we thank you for at least delaying your research time table. That gives us a very, very small window of opportunity to secure a deal.

Yours Cap'n Hercules.

I 'll now go open the turn

Greetings Prime function Mani-Alpha 3 and External Affairs Function Drogue Beta 8

First the good news: We have acquired Ind Base.

Now the latest news: the PUT have joined the Hive and the Drones in acquiring Ind. Auto.

I am going to play a little more, explore a little more and I 'll get back soon but I thought you our PACT mates might like to know of these developments, immediately..

At your service,

Cap'n Calico Hercules.

[Maniac]

Hello Captain Calico Hercules,
(cc to BrownBeard, PM also to be sent via e-mail)

Quote:

I have to say I find it astounding that in the middle of intense and crucial negotiations you didn't check all you emails, especially as you use both email addresses regularly.

Yes well sorry. In the latest few e-mails you were sending your communiqués both to the skynet and hotmail addy, so I presumed checking one addy would be sufficient. Also you have to know my computer is divided into a few partitions, one called "Serious Business" and another "Games". I can play SMAC on the games section, where I needed to be at that time. However there isn't a Microsoft Outlook in the "Games" partition; there is in "Serious Business". So to check skynet mails I have to restart my computer. Then, when I'm in "SB" I still have to wait yes another minute until some LAN card starts working and I can finally go online and check mails. After that I would have to go back to "Games" to continue with the things I was doing (writing 3D, which involved a few SMAC pictures, so I needed to be in "Games"). All in all, this procedure involves me turning my thumbs for six minutes while staring at the computer screen every time I feel the need to check my e-mails. Call me lazy if you will, but that evening I was willing to take the gamble you had sent all your mails to hotmail.

Quote:

A normal courtesy is a response from someone from the Cycon faction to these replies.

Well I did send you a short unofficial mail, but apparently you didn't receive it. Anyway, I hereby officially acknowledge to have received your replies.

In that unofficial mail I sent you I also included a calculation I made. I counted a tech as worth 150 credits for easiness, though our research costs are currently lower and yours higher. As you can see, you are making double the profit out of this deal than we are. Even if you'd put paying 100 credits for IndBase on your list of burdens (which is discussable as that negates any futures advantages you got from IndBase), you still have more profit.

Quote:

You get: +150 credits by not having to research IndAut +150 credits by not having to research a future tech +55 credits A total of 355 credits profit. We get: +150 credits for not having to research IndBase +100 credits for not having to research IndEco (not 150 because we could buy it from the Angels for less) -15 credits because we would still have to spend some labs on researching IndAut, with the inefficiency and all that -55 credits being paid to you A total of 180 credits profit.

Quote:

And yet, without further discussion/ negotiation ( isn't negotiation/ diplomacy about issues tooing and froing), you post a poll on a non agreed proposal. Well every faction operates differently!!

Well if we as representatives of our factions both agreed on the proposal, there no longer needed to be a poll. Anyhow, we've already been tooing and froing (What does that mean? ) for a whole week, plus this was the first concrete proposal we received from you after your earlier one of three techs and 100 ec, so I just put it up for poll to see what the Collective thought. Currently 33% wants to accept your proposal. 66% rejects it. We are simultaneously holding a poll what's the maximum amount of credits we want to offer you. Perhaps another cyborg wants to take over from me, but I'm tired of these negotations. I don't really care anymore whether the deal goes on or not. So when that poll is done, I'll just tell you the results with the message "That's the maximum the Collective wants to give you. I have no authority to offer you anything more in negotiations. The choice is entirely up to you whether or not you accept the deal." Currently the mean of the credits individual cyborgs want to offer you is somewhere around 40 ec (nicely between your and my latest proposal). Also they are demanding that the future tech "is mutually agreed upon and preferably early in the tech tree".

Quote:

First the good news: We have acquired Ind Base.

Ah that's great. I'll probably see it next turn, but may I ask: how many credits did you pay for IndBase? This information may influence the amount of credits the Collective is willing to pay.

Quote:

Now the latest news: the PUT have joined the Hive and the Drones in acquiring Ind. Auto.

Yes I already noticed in our turn.

Quote:

I am going to play a little more, explore a little more and I 'll get back soon but I thought you our PACT mates might like to know of these developments, immediately..

Thank you.

Friendly greetings,

Mani Alpha-3

[Drogue]

Email sent to Herc:

As for the deal, it looks good to me, although I would like to mention a few
things.

> Ind Base for Ind Auto
> Ind Econ for new tech, plus
>
> to reflect the overheads we have already incurred; to reflect the delay
> in the discovery and delivery of a new tech, (the turn after you
> discovery it, unless Ambassador asks for delay or otherwise). And to
> reflect, which you don't really seem to acknowledge, the considerable
> saving in research time we save both of us ( that includes you ). Maybe
> a reverse opportunity of a similar nature will happen in the future.
This is true, and we do realise it, but the fact it is a massive saving to
both means it doesn't strengthen either side relative to the other, it
merely makes the deal more important. As for the delay, that is true also,
and although it is partly remostrated by you being able to choose your
future tech, it would count in your favour, hence the offer of some ec for
that.

We would also need to know what tech you would like? Ethical Calculus has
been suggested by one CyCon, since you were considering researching it
yourself. Have you any ideas which one you would like? It would be much
easier to gather support if we knew which tech we were giving away.


> As a pact brother, if I hadn't spotted this catch up opportunity
> (catching up to the Drones and Hive, have you forgotten that), over and
> beyond the tech for tech deal, we could both be potentially eclipsed by
> them. I don't think you relish that prospect (nor do we) .
This is true. The fact you spotted the deal has done us both a great
service. I thank you.

> So all we ask is 55.6 ecs (only 30.6 ecs more than External Ambassador
> Drogue's offer a few communications back). well we may give you 0.6
> discount for you own research delay.
You do have a delay, although that is partly remedies by being able to
choose your tech, to some extent, although it is still an issue in your
favour. Also you did think up the deal, which might be worth something, as
it is saving both of us. Then there is the overheads and inefficiency on
both sides, although admittedly more on yours. I have not been given
authorisation from the people yet, but in my role as Extrenal Affairs
Function, I would like to broker a deal that I can put to the people. They
have voted against the 55ec, as being too much. I admit that you do deserve
a slight ec bonus, but I think that 55ec is too much. Although I feel the
earlier offer of 25ec was about right to reflect that, in the interests of
concluding this, I will try to get an offer slightly higher than our
previous one. You say 55, we say 25; if you will agree to 40ec, I will put
it to the people and see, although I am unsure as to what they will say. It
has a chance of getting through, although obviously if you could accept 30ec
it would have a far greater chance. This is pure speculation with
probabilities, but if you would agree to 30ec, I think there is a 90% chance
the people will accept it, and probably a 50% chance at 40ec (although I
will try in both cases, as I am personally for both cases). I am pretty
sure the 55ec will lose the vote.

If you give me your position, I will put it to the functions of the CyCon.

In all cases we would need you to state which future tech you would like.
Would Ethical Calculus be acceptable?

Yours
Drogue

I will take over if you wish. Have some Uni stuff sorted, so should have time. Hope this goes through.

[Chaunk]

I seem completely unable to reply to the poll on this deal, but IndAuto & a different tech (Providing we can say what it is, such as EthCalc) for IndBase&IndEcon sounds fine, with up to 40ec trade.

[Maniac]

Greetings External Affairs Function Drogue Beta 8 and Prime function
Mani- Alpha 3

First thank you for your speedy response. I am pleased that you also
feekl a deal is possible.I t is so close.

As far as I am concerned a useful tech such as Ethical Calculus would be
fine. I mean we are not going to hold out for Doc. Air. But if you
choose Ecol Eng to research next, that would be acceptable.

Now to the ecs bit. I know Cuspidore BB could easily present a counter
thesis but that would take too long in this time period. I may convince
him to give a repeat lecture at a future date in one of your fine
cities.

I believe I could persuade the Peace faction to accept 40ecs. More
importantly it will get our two factions back on a proper equal Pact
brother footing.

best wishes

Cap'n Calico Hercules

I say go for it. They gain more, but I just want to stop these negotiations.

edit:

My response:

Hello Cuspidore and Captain,

There hasn't been any response from cyborgs on your latest offer, but before Drogue sent you the 40 ec proposal, there were several cyborgs who said they could live with that. So I presume we'll have a deal, at least if you can persuade the other Peace members. While waiting on your response, I'll put a bottle of champagne and xenorum in the frigerator.

Anyway, if we have the deal, is the concrete work-out like this?:
1> you now give us IndBase and IndEcon pre-accepted.
2> we pick IndAut as our next tech and give you 40 ec pre-accepted
3> we give you IndAut probably the year after
4> we give you another tech in a yet to be determined future

Greetings,

Mani Alpha-3

His response:

> >Subject: Re: Re your recent response.
> >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:27:18 +0100
> >
> >Greetings Mani -Alpha 3 and External Function Drogue Beta 8
> >
> >I believe we have a deal, Peace members were kept imformed of the decision
> >re
> >the 40ecs and were in agreement. So open your champagne and Xenorum and we
> >might
> >even coax Cuspidore BB to send over a keg of his special Xeno grog.
> >
> >It works out as you outlined. Ind Base and Ind Econ on the way.
> >
> >Hoist the mainsail, me hearties
> >
> >Cap'n Calico Hercules
> >

[Drogue]

I'm all for it too Nicely done Maniac COnsidering they wanted an extra tech and 100ec before, and we offered 25ec, I think we have got nearer to our goal. They may get a better deal, but it's pretty good from our side too.

[Corellion]

Hoorah and hooray! The negotiating is over, we both win, and we didn't get fleeced (I think)! Persistance pays off.

[Drogue]

We didn't get fleeced, as that would involve us losing overall, which we didn't. They may have got a better deal, but as a wise man once said about trading on the stock market, "get in quick, make some money, get out and leave some for the next man". We made money, and we now stand a better chance. I still think we should try for war soon with PEACE though We can gain a lot with a couple of impact foils

[DeathByTheSword]

ok i have been away to long to read all the messages can someone say what happened between us and the pirates? and what is our view of them now?

[Maniac]

can someone say what happened between us and the pirates?

A few turns ago they offered a deal where they would give us IndBase (the tech we were researching) and IndEcon. They said they could buy those techs from the Angels for 100 ec each. We would then be able to switch research to IndAut immediately and get IndAut in only two years. After we had agreed on that general principle however, they asked us three techs (among which IndAut of course) and 100 ec (to compensate the costs they were making buying techs from the Angels) in return for the two techs they gave us. We weren't very happy, especially since their negotiational tone wasn't very friendly and johndmuller plainly insulted Drogue once (later claiming he was joking ).

Then I believe you had the great idea of contacting the Believers and asking for the Angel commlink, which they had. This started a new chapter in negotiations as we could now buy IndEco ourselves, severely reducing the time it would take us to research IndAut without Pirate help. As a consequence they could no longer ask 3 techs and 100 ec, which they could earlier as they were in a much better position than us to reach IndAut. Then there was a second round of negotiations. It was agreed upon that we would only give two techs in return for IndBase and IndEcon. However PEACE still wanted a number of credits to compensate the costs they made/would make to have bought/buy IndBase/IndEcon. Finally we agreed to give them an extra 40 ec.

One thing I think is important to mention though is that PEACE probably lied to us concerning how they got IndEcon. During the years of negotiations I carefully watched the energy reserves of PEACE, and also which techs we had and the other factions not (this can be seen in the diplomacy windows for interhuman contact). I noticed that during the turn they claimed they bought IndEcon from the Angels, they didn't loose any credits, certainly not the 100 ec they claimed it would cost. I did notice however that during the turn PUT obtained Doc:Mob. Therefore my guess is that PEACE and PUT did a IndBase<->Doc:Mob trade. This of course means that their argument, that we should pay them credits because they have to make heavy costs to obtain the "useless" IndBase, is flawed (sorry for the long sentence ). In other words, we paid 40 credits more than we should have to have a fair deal. (So we DID get fleeced, Corellion.)

and what is our view of them now?

Well that's for everyone to determine on their own. Some want to attack PEACE as soon as possible. I personally don't, as that would be economic suicide at this stage of the game. However that doesn't mean I have a friendly attitude towards them. They are simply exploiting us. This is understandable from a pure "realpolitik" and power politics stance, but of course it doesn't create any loyalty or feelings of good will towards them, should they ever need our help.

Once we have Doc:Flex, I think we should build a few exploration ships asap (probe skimships preferably) to contact other factions, reducing our dependence on PEACE. As said before, I don't think we should invade though. No costly military build-up right now.

[DeathByTheSword]

ok tnx....my view is change now...to not attacking them in the near future...but lets try to keep them friendly and weak at the same time

[Maniac]

From Hercules:

Re Peace Cycon Pact discussions

Greetings External Function Drogue Beta 8 and Mani-Alpha - 3

Well our joint endeavours delivered the goods re Ind Auto.
Congratulations to us both.

I write because just towards the end of our pirates turn I noticed that
you are now researching Doc: Flexibility. We are a bit puzzled by this
as we have that tech and we presumed you would be researching something
else: unless there was little or no choice offered at the research
screen.

As Pact colleagues we more or less thought you would be approaching us
again soon regarding trading Doc: Flex and we could work out a deal.

On a second point: out of interest how did you acquire the DJ comm link.
Was it via an exchange with Miriam?

We mention this because in an earlier exchange between us it was
indicated that you were about to contact us regarding you recent contact
with her.

[Corellion]

We were under the impression that Doc: Flexibility had been designated by them as a "do-not-trade" tech (PlaNet negotiations).

As for what we can trade them, I don't see many options. We can only give them Applied Physics and Biogenetics, which they said they do not want. Our trading options are running really low, and our only real hope for further mass-advantage trading is to contact some other factions. And before PEACE trades away all our good techs.

[Googlie]

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
- they have executed no trades with either of the AI factions (if they had, the status would have moved from "informal truce" to "truce", as it has between you and Roze, but not you and Miriam (buying a commlink isn't recognized in the game as affecting truce status - only tech trades)

Ah thanks. I didn't know that. But we haven't traded with the Angels despite being truced. After all the deal with PEACE went on.

Edit: My response to Hercules and co,

Hi Hercules,

Since at the time of the Planetary Networks negotiations you were unwilling to trade for Doc:Flex, we were under the impression that Doc: Flexibility had been designated by you as a "do-not-trade" tech. Therefore we decided to research it ourselves as soon as our prior priority IndAut had been met.

We would of course be willing to trade for Doc:Flex, on a one-tech-for-one-tech basis of course. For example you could give us the tech and then we could switch to research a tech you want. Do you have any preferences?

Greetings,

Mani Alpha-3
Current Prime Function
External Affairs Function for Term 0100

[Googlie]

[Maniac]

Perhaps it is a formal truce because I haven't even contacted Roze yet for a simple talk. Who knows it might change to an informal truce after we had an informal talk. And back again to a formal truce after we formally traded (though I doubt she has anything to trade to us now we have IndEco). I could test this theory by contacting Roze using the presend file, if you don't mind me breaking the "no playing ahead" rule.

[Googlie]

[Googlie]

[Drogue]

I think so. Email is used exclusively now it seems. Thanks for that though, I would have liked to have used it more, but others prefer email.

[Maniac]

I've given FlameFlash a poke concerning my previous diplomatic message, on which we haven't received any response yet by Hercules or any other pirate. His answer:

We most certainly do want to trade, I'm wagering he's been hit hard by the
spam bug as well.

I believe we were wanting a simple tech-for-tech trade, I'm sending to Herc
as well so hopefully this will give him the poke.

[Drogue]

Have received communication from Flubber on behalf of PEACE:

Honored Drogue

This message is merely to touch base with our allies . I have reviewed the correspondence and dealings leading to the most recent trades and was dismayed that relations seemed to get somewhat strained before the successful conclusion of the trades.

It is my hope to begin amiable discussions so that we can cement ourselves solidly together as close friends and allies in what we fear will become an increasingly hostile world. If there is ANYTHING you desire of us, please do not hesitate to contact me.

It is our greatest wish to work together in friendship to our mutual benefit.

Ambassador Flubber

and have replied:

Greetings Ambassador Flubber, and welcome back. I trust the vacation was enjoyable? Indeed, the last trade did strain relations, however I think we have recovered from there.

There was talk of a trade for Doc Flex, a straight swap. Is this still amenable? At the moment, I believe we still owe you Ethical Calculus from the last trade (however having been away a little myself, I am not sure if we gave something else). We are also close to a few nice techs, and if you could gift us Doc Flex before we complete it, we would happily gift back the tech we get, plus ethical calculus when we have researched it, as per the last deal. If this is acceptable, have you a preferance as to which tech you would like?

It is nice to see you back again, and I am thankful for our friendship, especially at this time.

Prime Function Drogue Beta-8

Looks like we might be getting Doc Flex soon

[Maniac]

Ah yes. I received the same PM (with different heading of course). Good response.

[Phenix]

Seems with Flubber back, Peace is finally getting some common sense...

our pact seems to be in a stable situation now

[Corellion]

I'm still annoyed at their having lied to us.

[Drogue]

As am I, but we've hardly been completely honest either. Besides, we benefit from trades. Let's not let our pride get in the way of that.

[Drogue]

I have a reply from Flubber:

Thank you honored Drogue

I believe that doc flex is now on the table. We were reticent to trade it earlier until all of our treasure was properly buried . . . I will pass on your message to our operations people to determine any favored techs they might have . . . I will also confirm that we are owed eth calc--

Flubber

[Corellion]

He has any ideas of them saying no?

[Drogue]

Do you mean is there a chance of them saying no? I think they have agreed to trade in principle, but are looking at which techs.