AU402 - Gargantua

Dominae · June 26, 2003, 21:02

As discussed in this thread, the newest AU course's theme is the following:

1. Largest possible size world
2. Archipelago
3. 80% water
4. 23 opponents (that's all this civs, plus you)

The playable civs are as follows (chosen due to their real-world naval history):

Americans
Carthaginains
English
Greeks
Spanish
Vikings

The map has been tweaked with in such as a way that each one of these civs will provide some definite advantage (up to you to figure it out!), so try not to reflexively pick Industrious!

This scenario is not for the faint of heart! It will surely be long to play and is designed to be challenging throughout.

However, to break the game up into reasonably-sized chunks, AU now uses DARs instead of AARs! "What's a DAR", you ask? Well, instead of writing a game report after all is said and done, these are now multiple threads dedicated to certain parts of the game. Here is a list of the intervals for the DARs:

4000BC-2150BC (the first 40 turns)
2150BC-1000BC
1000BC-10AD
10AD-1000AD
1000AD-1500AD
1500AD-End

As this game will be rather long, hopefully everyone will write at least a few paragraphs in each of these threads (by the way, the 10AD-Industrial interval was replaced because it is likely to be very large in this particular game).

New to Apolyton University? Then check out the topped AU History 101 thread to get yourself oriented, then come back here and try this game out concurrently with everyone else.

Good luck everyone, and have fun! Oh, and thanks Nathan for the idea (will we be thanking him 30 hours into the game...?).

alva · June 26, 2003, 21:10

We are using default rules right?

Dominae · June 26, 2003, 21:13

The only thing that is not default are the tweaks Nathan made to some of the tech costs. It would be great if he could repeat those here, but you can find them buried in "Summer Challenge" thread.

Dominae

Harovan · June 26, 2003, 21:21

Largest possible world size? That would be 362x362. Is this true?

Dominae · June 26, 2003, 21:22

Ah, it says it in-game (the scenario description). I'm not sure on the exact size, Nathan set up the parameters.

Edit: Looks like 250x250. Does that sound right?

Dominae

nbarclay · June 26, 2003, 21:34

Yes, 250x250. That's far short of the largest possible, but it's more than half again the size of a huge map in each direction, and has almost two and a half times as many tiles.

BigDork · June 26, 2003, 21:40

This will be fun

BigD

vmxa1 · June 26, 2003, 21:47

Unless I am losing my mind (possible), Carth is not a civ that is available? It shows as a rivial. Not that I care, I am looking at either England/USA/Vikes right now.

I think he said 230x230, but I did not check.

Dominae · June 26, 2003, 21:52

You're losing your mind: Carthage is indeed available (I just checked). It may be because 'Carthage' is hiding down near the Random button in the civ-selection panel.

Dominae

nbarclay · June 26, 2003, 21:57

Research in this scenario is set up with a special cost structure to make research practical in the early game while REXing but still make it challenging later on. First-tier and second-tier techs cost the same as they would on a conventional huge map. After that, the costs are multiplied (relative to normal huge-map costs) as follows:

Times 1.25 for Literature, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, and Polytheism. (I rounded halves toward even numbers, so Literature and Code of Laws are cost 12 while Philosophy is cost 8.)

Times 1.5 for Monarchy, Republic, Currency, and Construction.

Times 1.7 for Monotheism, Feudalism, and Engineering

Times 1.8 for Theology, Chivalry, and Invention

Times 1.9 for Education, Gunpowder and Printing Press

Times 2 for everything thereafter.

What I'm hoping for is an overall research pace similar to, or maybe a little slower than, what would normally be found on a huge map with similar settings. Time will tell how well my effort works out in practice. (Also note that an 80% water archipelago map is likely to have a slower research pace in general than a map with more land and/or larger land masses would.)

By the way, the modified cost structure seems likely make the AIs tend a bit more toward wide rather than deep research patterns through the first half of the medieval era, since the higher multipliers deeper in the tree will tend to make those techs less attractive than they would be otherwise. That's not deliberate, but I couldn't find a way to work around it and have the costs scale up gradually. (And I have no real idea how pronounced the effect will be.) Once everything has a cost multiplier of 2, research patterns should be back to normal.

BigDork · June 26, 2003, 21:59

I'm torn between Vikings and USA. I kinda like the idea of hordes of berserkers rushing off boats to annihilate foes. But then again, industrial would be nice, seeing the start. Well, I have 2 1/2 more hours to think it over.

BigD

Harovan · June 26, 2003, 22:10

Looks like Cathage is by far the best civ for this map (out of the available), especially with this start, but Dominae asked not to take industrious. I will stick with Spain.

Dominae · June 26, 2003, 22:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Looks like Cathage is by far the best civ for this map (out of the available), especially with this start, but Dominae asked not to take industrious. I will stick with Spain.

GhengisFarb™ · June 26, 2003, 22:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
The playable civs are as follows (chosen due to their real-world naval history):

Americans
Carthaginains
English
Greeks
Spanish
Vikings

Decisions, decisions. Oh well, I have about a day to decide since I probably won't tackle this until tomorrow.

vmxa1 · June 26, 2003, 22:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
You're losing your mind: Carthage is indeed available (I just checked). It may be because 'Carthage' is hiding down near the Random button in the civ-selection panel.

Dominae

I did lose my mind, I had AU401.

nbarclay · June 26, 2003, 22:25

I had France or Carthage in mind when I first proposed this game concept, so I'm going to stick with my original idea of what kind of game I wanted and go with Carthage.

BigDork · June 26, 2003, 22:29

I've decided on the Vikings. Gonna go for a massive berserker army. Just because it's what I'm supposed to do. Right?

BigD

BigDork · June 26, 2003, 22:30

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1

I did lose my mind, I had AU401.

It's all good. It's late.

BigD

alva · June 26, 2003, 22:45

Dominae, you would make a fine BDSM member, me thinks

nice map so far.

Dominae · June 26, 2003, 22:51

BDSM?

I'm glad you like the map around the start. I'm afraid some people will get overly afraid with just a look at the first screenshot.

By the way, Barbs are set to Raging. Avoid disaster: plan ahead.

Dominae

BigDork · June 26, 2003, 22:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
By the way, Barbs are set to Raging. Avoid disaster: plan ahead.

Thanks for the warning.

BigD

alva · June 26, 2003, 23:11

Quote:

By the way, Barbs are set to Raging. Avoid disaster: plan ahead.

I was starting to notice..

-
BDSM = sort of good in punishing. Be carefull if you google for it

BigDork · June 26, 2003, 23:13

Dom...

Just think whips and chains and spanking all that stuff.

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
BDSM = sort of good in punishing. Be carefull if you google for it

Yeah, I think I'm gonna agree with you on this. I've seen a few screenshots and they aren't pretty. I sure hope it gets better.

BigD

Master Zen · June 27, 2003, 00:47

If I had a P4....

Jawa Jocky · June 27, 2003, 10:24

I've got a 2G-P4, 512 RAM, The order of the Pheonix (for between turn waits), a case of beer and free weekend. Let's get started

vmxa1 · June 27, 2003, 11:22

So far no big waits. I am in the early AD's so most will not have massive armies yet.
I am running on PIV 3.06GH Radeon 9800 PRO 128MB so it will take a lot to drag it down.

Oh I forgot it has 1GB of mem as well.

jim_steer · June 27, 2003, 11:26

I have a 2ghz-p4 with 1gig ram and at 10ad I am waiting about 2 min per turn

Please, Oh please tell me you have increased the movement rates of all the ships apart from galleys or this could be a very tedious game.

alexman · June 27, 2003, 11:57

Quote:

Originally posted by jim_steer
Please, Oh please tell me you have increased the movement rates of all the ships apart from galleys or this could be a very tedious game.

We are using stock rules for all units. But with some planning (to set up ship-jumping routes), your troops can be transported to the other side of this gargantuan world in the same turn, so it's not a big deal.

Dominae · June 27, 2003, 12:00

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
But with some planning (to set up ship-jumping routes), your troops can be transported to the other side of this gargantuan world in the same turn, so it's not a big deal.

Exploit!

alexman · June 27, 2003, 12:09

Only because the AI doesn't do it, but then is using Artillery an exploit too?

For realism purposes is makes sense, especially since ground units (railroad) and air units (re-base) have infinite movement in a turn. Civ3 is about abstraction of reality, and this one fits right in.