Imp2: France, AAR

lord of the mark · July 1, 2003, 09:32

Playing France, on easy level (but unpatched, so its not that easy)

Focused on domestic development, mainly in northern France, but also developed iron in Provence, accessed by sea. Started military conquest of new world, took and developed several provinces, started bringing in spices and gems to improve finances. Began to grow labor force to around 20 plus. Attempted political penetrarion of Italy, Germany. Made alliances with Spain and Sweded.

By 1660 noticed that despite my larger new world empire, England and Holland were just about even in power - England mainly in domestic development, Holland in trade and overseas profits from their peaceful/commercial penetration of the new world. They were also my political/commercial rivals in Germany, and their relationship with Switzerland was becoming a threat. And their new world land holdings were becoming an annoyance. What perfect timing - its late 17thC and main rival to growing France is commercial Holland!!! I began preparing for war, focusing on military and naval techs.

When all of a sudden one of my allies declares war on England and asks me to join - well heres an opportunity to make war, and avoid a diplomatic loss. And england is a threat, and starting to expand in the new world. So i join the war against England, and accept alliance with Holland.

After several years of see saw war, I manage to hold all my new world provinces, and take one Englands more developed ones. All the rest of England new world provinces have been taken by my various allies. England sues for peace and I accept. Which pisses my allies off considerably ( a nice touch).

Meanwhile Sweden has taken parts of Denmark and Scotland, and Spain has taken most of Ireland. Portugal has managed to politically acquire Italy

Spain is particularly annoyed with me.

Spain declares war. I move my forces back from the new world, and prepare for an assault on the Spanish Netherlands. I have siege artillery now, which i used in the assault on that Enlish new world province, so i should be able to take an old world province.

Meanwhile ive got apprentice workers, but difficulty supplying sugar makes it seem like its not going to be worth getting a lot of these. Ive got early RR, and realize that the next rounds of stronger units mainly require steel rather than bronze. So im going to have to start developing coal mines, as well as stocking up on iron ore. Unfortunately by domestic iron ore is far in the south near the Pyrenees, so im going to use rails mainly to develop food, wool, wood areas, and keep bringing in iron ore by ship from the new world. I will try to develop domestic coal in so far as possible, to conserve on shipping.

I continue to send massive regular subsidies to Germany, angling for political annexation, but not quite there yet.

War4ever · July 2, 2003, 01:05

Wow, nice AAR.....sounds like a cool game, either that or your writing has me enscounced....

i am definitely getting this game

pls tell me more *war4 drools*

lord of the mark · July 2, 2003, 13:14

war against spain (which i ended up declaring - made a mistake in my last post) - took several new world provinces, and two old world ones - though the ones i took were not in Flanders, but in northern Spain - Aragon and Asturias. I had my army down in Languedoc protecting my iron ore region, and then attacked from there (well actually see-saw battle over several provinces)

Spain sued for peace, although they still dislike me.

I annexed Germany peacefully.

My growing power , and my previous betrayal by making peace with England, has earned me the strong dislike of most of the great powers. They now reject my alliance overtures.

So instead i went for an alliance with england, apparently still grateful for me making peace with them, and aware that i am hated by their enemies.

Making alliance with England was apparently the straw that broke the camel's back. Portugal, Holland, and even Sweden have declared war on me. England is my ally, and Spain, apparently recovering from the last war, is neutral.

Meanwhile i have been developing. I now have hussars and regulars, and abundant shipping. I have discovered early rails, and have recruited a rail builder, but it doesnt seem worth building rails till I have more fully developed regions that need rails to exploit. Main resource thats constraining me is food, and im only just reaching the point where Im out of areas in France that can be upgraded using roads alone. Of course theres lots to be done in developing Germany, and in connecting relatively well developed Aragon into my road network. I really didnt want a great power now, I was hoping to focus on domestic improvements and possibly a war against Switzerland, to give me an overland connection to Germany (the "historic" map is not terribly realistic as you may have noticed. Holland touches switzerland, cutting off both france and Span. Neth. from Germany - which is treated as a single minor nation) But i will make the most of it. I will leave the Spanish frontiers virtually unguarded (thank goodness i researched heavy emplaced artillery, strengthening my fortresses) and basically set up three armies - one will set out from hamburg(the only well developed prov in Germany) and either attack Holland or or attack the Swedes in Denmark (which is now all theirs) A second will be assigned to the Dauphinee, to attack the Portugese in Italy. The third will head to the new world, looking for targets of opportunity. My main initial goal will be to drive at least one of the "grand coalition" partners out of the war, then focus on whoever is left.
While id like to do more development, im getting close to the point where if i get many more old world provinces, i will win the game.

lord of the mark · July 2, 2003, 13:19

BTW, its now the 1740's, i have a couple of artisans, and have built up my labor force. Im building some units using steel.

War4ever · July 2, 2003, 17:56

WOW, again, this sounds like alot of fun. Recapping is something i have wanted to do..... my cousin used to do this when he civved. It inspired me a few times but i always gave up writing.

this game sounds like alot of fun....its seems easy to win though due to conquering the old world....

it would appear its almost better to just go and conquer than to do too much inter development...or perhaps you dont have enough experience to fullfill this at this point?

Germany as a minor power

well i guess it isnt' Bismarcs rule yet....

i dont' recall, but are you playing on the easy settting or the most difficult?

admittedly i looked for this game on kazaa

but did not find it....i was hoping to give it a whirl first before i bought

instead , i think i am off to my local discount video game store to buy it ...the guy told me he had it for $5 so i think i can spare that..

do you have IMP2? and if so is it any good.....

Keep me posted on the outcome......still drooling over here!!!!!!!

lord of the mark · July 3, 2003, 08:56

Quote:

Originally posted by War4ever
WOW, again, this sounds like alot of fun. Recapping is something i have wanted to do..... my cousin used to do this when he civved. It inspired me a few times but i always gave up writing.

this game sounds like alot of fun....its seems easy to win though due to conquering the old world....

it would appear its almost better to just go and conquer than to do too much inter development...or perhaps you dont have enough experience to fullfill this at this point?

Germany as a minor power

well i guess it isnt' Bismarcs rule yet....

i dont' recall, but are you playing on the easy settting or the most difficult?

admittedly i looked for this game on kazaa

but did not find it....i was hoping to give it a whirl first before i bought

instead , i think i am off to my local discount video game store to buy it ...the guy told me he had it for $5 so i think i can spare that..

do you have IMP2? and if so is it any good.....

Keep me posted on the outcome......still drooling over here!!!!!!!

Game covers 1500 to 1850 - Germany was not united in this period. Prussia was a great power in the last hundred years (1750-1850) but dominant like united Germany - the rest of Germany was minor powers - Bavaria, Saxony - and some very tiny states - independent cities and local lordships. Tended to be an area where France, Austria, Spain, Holland and Sweden played out their rivalries. Which i think is how EU shows it. Imp2, more abstract, simply shows all Germany as one minor nation.

And yes, its imp2 im playing. I dont have imp, though ive played the demo.

Imp2 is available, IIRC, from amazon, chips n bits, etc for about 7 to 10 dollars US. I picked it up used for $5.

lord of the mark · July 3, 2003, 09:10

no just conquering without internal development wont work, i think. This isnt civ2. Say i conqure a new world province with diamonds. I cant extact the diamonds without building mines and a port. But for that i need wood and iron. To defend the province i need fort. That needs bronze. And some troops, which require resources to build, plus food to support. And the engineer who goes over to build the fort and the port needs paper for his initial training. You MUST pay attention to internal development.

Well i discovered that if you have a sprawling, weakly defended new world empire its a mistake to get into a war with 3 great powers. England, though my ally, doesnt seem to have declared war on my attackers - not sure how to demand that they do so. War in old world was pretty much a stalemate - i lost 2 undeveloped provinces in Germany, but gained one well developed province in Holland. In the new world though they wiped me out. I may have overconcentrated my force - i kept my army together so that it easily won wherever it attacked, while leaving all the other provinces way too lightly defended. Clearly i have learning to do, at all levels - tactical, strategic and grand strategic.

In particular at grand strategic - be wary of alliances - make one or two, and no more. Not only to avoid being dragged into war, but so if you make a seperate peace, you dont piss off as many other great powers. And be wary of a seperate peace, better to just stop fighting, while remaining technically at war.

Be more careful in building up new world empire. Look for provinces that form a relatively geographically compact unit, for easier development and defense. Focus on extraction of key resources, than use that power to attack minor nations in europe.
Be selective in spending money on diplomacy - dont expect to buy most of europe, but use commerce and politics to try to buy ONE minor nation.

I started over as England, its still early 16thc, and ive taken 4 new world provinces, and am developing internally - accessing iron in the north, and soon will access tin in the southwest.

Yes im playing on easy - one level up from intro. Apparently intro and easy are harder than the developers intended, which is fixed in a patch i havent yet installed.

Henrik · July 3, 2003, 09:11

Great writing!

Imho imp1 is better than imp2 (perhaps not graphically, but there's not a big difference between the two). Imp2 is very good too though.

Almost made me reinstall imp2... What difficulty level was this? or did you play with a customized one (one feature I love about this game)?

EDIT: I see you posted while I was writing. Never mind the difficulty level question then

. You should install that patch though, I think it's the one that allow you to customize difficulty levels...

War4ever · July 4, 2003, 02:44

LOTR the underdogs has IMP 1 if anyone is interested... i dl'ed it from there and plan on playing it...

your writing has inspired me to do so...i need to dl the manual so i know what i am doing though, just looking at it is quite confusing if i do say so myself

let you know how my new world diplomacy goes....

keep me informed in your game...... it sounds quite exciting

lord of the mark · July 7, 2003, 10:22

Quote:

Originally posted by War4ever
LOTR the underdogs has IMP 1 if anyone is interested... i dl'ed it from there and plan on playing it...

your writing has inspired me to do so...i need to dl the manual so i know what i am doing though, just looking at it is quite confusing if i do say so myself

let you know how my new world diplomacy goes....

keep me informed in your game...... it sounds quite exciting

I got into another diplo situation i didnt want to. I tried to build up for war with scotland, and political penetration of ireland. dont recall exactly what happened after that (didnt play all that long- i did spend a lot of resources peacefully buying land in the new world and cam close to bankruptcy) but i went seriously off strategy.

So i decided to try again, this time using one of Imp2's excellent features, customizable difficulty. Unpatched easy level (50 difficulty points) is still harder than i want at this point - OTOH im well beyond intro (25 point) so I adjusted some settings and ended up at 41 difficulty points. Started again as England.

Like so many strat games, it really seems to help to decide early on peace vs war strats. I planned early to approach the new world purely with war - no money spent on embassies, merchants, etc. In old world pursused peace, alliances with all great powers except France and Sweden (IE with portugal, holland and spain) So far have successfully conquered about half of new world - rest is controlled by other great powers, so im done conquering there. Have built up defenses there - level 1 forts, and leaving a few garrison regiments. Rest of army in Northumberland for attack on Scotland. Development of England and new world extensive - about 30 plus workers, plus 1 apprentice in 1660's. Next internal step is to develop sugar, and recruit more apprentices. Moving towards steel and rails. Have just DOWed Scotland. Will attack next turn. France DOWed Denmark, which gave me reason to attack France, which I declined. Im not militarized enough for a 2 front war. I dont want to fight a great power till im ahead in NAVAL tech and have really large fleet. Will then try out blockades, etc.

War4ever · July 8, 2003, 00:27

so you quit the other one? darn

most games are built on economy....not military might in this genre....or should be...after all its the mighty dollar that rules...

lord of the mark · July 8, 2003, 10:27

Quote:

Originally posted by War4ever
so you quit the other one? darn

most games are built on economy....not military might in this genre....or should be...after all its the mighty dollar that rules...

well actually there are limits to what you can do with money - just as there are limits to what you can do with military.

I completed by conquest of Scotland, and dispersed my army to garrison. Ive got level 1 forts almost everywhere, and level 2 fort in London, so im pretty well set for defense. France, after conquering Denmark, diplo-annexed Ireland, which would have been my next minor power target. I was starting to get nervous about France, and feared being pushed into war with them too early. (Holland has diploannexed Germany, but they are weaker and friendlier then France) Fortunately Sweden went to war with France, so with them checking French power, I could focus on domestic development. Ive researched and built Indiamen, vastly improving my shipping capacity - and thus enabling fuller development of my new world empire. (also allows me to not worry what happens when my galleons get upgraded to ships of the line) That has let me import more sugar, so i can start converting more of labor force to more skilled apprentices - so i can build up industrial capacity without using so much more food (though im also developing Scotland for food) It has also let me bring in more new world riches - so im now rolling in money - but there arent really any old world minors worth trying to buy - only switzerland and italy are left, and they hate me since i DOWed Scotland. My goal is to build toward naval dominance and then conquest. I can use my money to accelerate research, but diminishing marginal returns set in pretty quickly - overfunding research here doesnt work like in Civ, or even SMAC - you can get ahead, but its very costly, tends to keep things more on historical track. I can also use cash to buy what i need - ive got plenty of resources, so im buying materials instead - which are expensive but i can afford them. Its mainly my industrial capacity thats constrained - which i can grow by building up agriculture to recruit more laborers, or building up sugar to support more apprentices. To build up more food, i'll need early RR. But ive almost got that (its now about 1710) Im stockpiling coal, though i dont have steel yet. I should soon have the techs and resources to improve my army and really build my navy. THEN a great power war. The question then is what kind of war - a balance of power war against France - or an elimination war against a weaker power, like Sweden. heres where the game becomes ahistorical I think - theres incentive to roll up the weak great powers first, rather than fight a balance of power type war.

lord of the mark · July 9, 2003, 09:25

1715 (or so)
France (which holds denmark and ireland, as well as several new world provinces) diploannexes Italy. Spain DOW's France. Spain invokes our alliance and asks me (england) to declare war.

War or not. I think im ready. England is well developed, although im just starting on early RR and more intense (level 3) developments. New world is pretty well developed as is Scotland. Im not short of anything. I have advanced enough techs for war - regulars, horse artillery and hussars. I have enough production to build an army and do whatever else i need. I have enough indiamen i can spare my galleons for naval war - and soon i will have ship of the line technology. Most importantly - i will enter this war with at least one ally - Spain - and France is diplomatically isolated - no allies, and no sympathy apart from some Switzerland.

So i DOW France. Holland, also an ally does so as well. So we have a grand coalition of England, Holland and Spain against France (i love this game). Sweden is not part of the alliance network, but they also DOW France.

My galleons join the coalition fleet in blockading France. We all carve up the french new world provinces - I end up with 2. Holland takes Denmark. I take Ireland. Sweden takes Florence and Genoa in Italy. Holland takes Lorraine, and proceeds into Italy from there, taking Savoy (this leaves France with only Milan in Italy, and thats clearly a matter of time) Meanwhile Spain has broken the alliance and dropped out of the war (France had briefly taken Aragon) This is just as well - it gives me more freedom to maneuver in future.

With continental France being carved up I cant refrain, so i send my army seize a foothold - I take Brittany.

Now im in a good position. Im continuing to develop my lands (now including Ireland) im building RRs, ive upgraded some galleons to Ships of the Line, im advancing in tech (heading towards grenadiers and field artillery) and I am now in position to threaten several provinces in France. Its a death struggle, now - i want as much of France as possible, or Holland and Sweden will take it instead. Once thats over, its simply a matter of picking the optimal next enemy (though i expect they will probably all gang up on me at that point)

War4ever · July 10, 2003, 21:32

it sounds as if you played your cards right by allowing france to get carved, and now you have your hand in the pie....

do they all gang up ala civ2 or EU when your bad boy rating gets too high

lord of the mark · July 11, 2003, 10:10

Quote:

Originally posted by War4ever
it sounds as if you played your cards right by allowing france to get carved, and now you have your hand in the pie....

do they all gang up ala civ2 or EU when your bad boy rating gets too high

too some extent (i havent played EU) except they seem to do it to comp players as well, not just to the human, and it seems your diplomacy matters more - they dont go after you based on your sheer size, like in Civ2.

For example after I joined in France getting carved - we finished it up with Holland took Picardy, Normandy, Lorrain, Savoy and Milan (and Denmark) Sweden took the south exept for Provence which went to Spain, and I took a band from Brittany through Paris to Champagne and Burgundy (after getting Ireland) - I identified Holland as my next target - not only were they the biggest challenge, and placed my territories in an awkward spot geographically, but i was their only ally and only power that liked them. I subsidized and traded with Spain and Sweden, and they both offered me alliances. So when I DOWed Holland, my allies Sweden, Spain and Portugal joined in. The Portugese joined in the blockade and fought Holland in the new world. Spain took Picardy. Sweden attacked Holland in Denmark. I have taken Normandy, and Lorraine and Savoy. Im satisified in the old world now (Im not attacking dutch Milan) and am now shifting forces to the new world (where ive lost an ill-defended province)
Ive got hussars, skirmishers, riflemen, grenadiers, 2nd gen light artillery, etc. And plenty of raw materials. I had sent my ships of the line and galleons to join in the blockade, but now ive withdrawn them and left that to the Portugese. It really should only be a matter of time now.

lord of the mark · July 11, 2003, 11:10

basically the CP's dislike powers that get to big, but fear and respect powers with strong militaries. So if you expand too much relative to your military power, all other things being equal, they will gang up on you -although your history of DOW's, alliances, betrayals, trade and subsidies all matter.( IIUC, they also take into account if you have allied with or DOWed powers they like or dislike. )

So essentially that gives one huge incentive not to expand too much too early, combined with the fact that an undeveloped province brings you NOTHING in resources. And development requires use of your civilian units AND materials. And even once a province is developed, if its overseas it does no good unless you have the shipping to bring home the resources and riches. So it effectively counters the "bigger is always better syndrome" without any happiness or corruption model.

War4ever · July 11, 2003, 13:08

its more realistic this way i think..i hate in civ 2 when the tiniest nation sneak attacks you, so unrealistic.

the bad boy rating in EU is pretty cool, keeps you in check.. sounds like this is similar as well