Palestinians demand Israel releases prisoners - Page 3

Az · July 3, 2003, 14:57

As always, you're very precise.

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 15:00

I know *pats himself on shoulder*

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 15:02

thing is, though, there's absolutely no need to actually bother with the media

unless you're a bunch of pussies.

DinoDoc · July 3, 2003, 15:10

How did we get on this stupid threadjack? Oh yes, I see Andz is here. That explains everything.

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 15:14

I can't remember making the first off-topic post

I suppose it's just Squalodon attempting to make the anti-troll troll

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 15:19

it doesn't seem like you have anything to add, DD. while I was forced to defend myself against Azazel.

imagine, an Israeli hijacking an ME thread

so, are there any developments on the issue of prisoners?

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 15:20

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...79#post2144679

this is the point where it got out of hand, BTW. you can see that Azazel speaks the first insult.

lord of the mark · July 3, 2003, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
it doesn't seem like you have anything to add, DD. while I was forced to defend myself against Azazel.

imagine, an Israeli hijacking an ME thread

so, are there any developments on the issue of prisoners?

no developments, just everyone sneaking around.

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 15:21

totally irrelevant

lord of the mark · July 3, 2003, 15:23

this by the way is how it started

Azazel:
It's good to know that Europeans know their history.

Ecthelion
I hope Israeli know theirs, too... they got slaughtered in millions without even defending.

Sirotnikov · July 3, 2003, 17:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
the point never was in the age of the recordings but rather how representative they are. they're used to claim that a majority of Palestinians support terror. those dancers were, however, an exception.

What exactly is your source for "disproving" that the pictures represented a majority, and that they were infact an exception?

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 17:15

oh, are there more dancers? is it a habit there to have street festivals after a terract?

as far as I have seen, the pictures were always the same. if there are more, show them.

and then, you (or someone else) gave poll figures about the popular support for terrorism against Israel. those would have been alarming for a civilized country, so to speak (as lotm, was it him?. has pointed out), but didn't seem like a majority (<50%). different figures have been provided since, though, also by lotm. can't but relativate about this one, since the statement you quoted was made in an earlier part of the discussion.

Sirotnikov · July 3, 2003, 17:28

Btw, in more response to laurentius:

Today a new case of soldiers in the Givati foot brigade was presented to the courts. Two soldiers are accused for ignoring warning shot procedures and trying to cover up evidence. One of them is accused of manslaughter.

They treated the warning shot procedures recklessly, shooting too much and too close to an old palestinian who defied a closed zone order. Eventually they killed him (apparently not intentionally, but that doesn't change their apparent blame).

another interesting news:

IDF ordered new, calmer conditions for opening fire in the territories, and eased restrictions.

IDF source said that they expect the PA to start acting against the terrorist infrastructure within "weeks".

"meanwhile" the source said "they can start by non-violent measures like limiting encitement and removing fundamentalist militarist moslem Imams from their jobs, and stop terrorist funding."

IDF Intelligence sources reported that Hamas and Jihad have stopped almost all actions against Israel, and the current terrorist attacks and disturbances are all caused by Al-Akza brigades and Tanzim - supposedly 'an offshoot' of Arafat's Fatah party militia, which is actually directly controlled and funded by Arafat himself.

Several Tanzim militias organized rallies infront of the homes of Palestinian PM Abbas, and Palestinain Security Minister, Dahlan, and fired shots into the air and around the place. Their stated grief was the arrest of several terrorist that acted against Israel for the last couple of daus, by Palestinian Police.

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 17:33

The Al-Akza brigades are officially considered some kind o fparamilitary wing of Arafat's Fatah over here. I just don't get how the man can be dealt with when he basically commands a terror commando...

Sirotnikov · July 3, 2003, 17:33

Quote:

oh, are there more dancers? is it a habit there to have street festivals after a terract?

Actually yes.
Usually after terracts in Israel though.

Quote:

as far as I have seen, the pictures were always the same. if there are more, show them.

You saw 3 pictures that a slob posted to apolyton all from the same site.

I saw reuters and Israeli pictures of different places in Gaza and the west bank. And this wasn't the first or last time that this happenned.

Quote:

and then, you (or someone else) gave poll figures about the popular support for terrorism against Israel. those would have been alarming for a civilized country, so to speak (as lotm, was it him?. has pointed out), but didn't seem like a majority (<50%).

So because Palestine is uncivilized, we should cut it slack on moral issues? "well you know those palestinians, they're always out to celebrate someones death. I suggest you take it easily"

Quote:

different figures have been provided since, though, also by lotm. can't but relativate about this one, since the statement you quoted was made in an earlier part of the discussion.

The figures were different because they related to different questions.

One talked about support of terrorism (which actually went down after Defensive Shield) and one talked about what Palestinians believe the goal of the Intifada is.

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 17:36

3 - sort of irrelevant logical continuation... the point was not if it was OK for them ebcause they're to be held to lower standards, but how strong support actually was, if it was a majority or not. that other question, the one you just mocked, I won't bother with now and I can't imagine you feel like it.

but could you provide a source for the festivities? maybe one that is not hosted on a server that belongs to one of the conflict parties

Sirotnikov · July 3, 2003, 17:37

Quote:

The Al-Akza brigades are officially considered some kind o fparamilitary wing of Arafat's Fatah over here. I just don't get how the man can be dealt with when he basically commands a terror commando...

Basically it is.

He allocates the funds and gives general "mood" orders to direct commanders of small paramilitary units. They plan and commit actual terracts.

The Tanzim is a Fatah militia similar to the black shirts or SA or something. They are estimated in their thousands, but mostly poorly trained and organized (also due to IDF targetted killings)

Sirotnikov · July 3, 2003, 17:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
....

but could you provide a source for the festivities? maybe one that is not hosted on a server that belongs to one of the conflict parties

I think you are wrong in your attitude on this.

Israeli sites have probably saved and portrayed much more pictures from different places, to prove their point, than Reuters, that only needed one picture to go with the story, and sold the same single picture to dozens of websites.

Furthermore, most of the pictures I saw were camera footage on CNN, Sky, BBC, Israeli Channel 1, Israeli Channel 2.

I have no way of recovering them.

Ecthy · July 3, 2003, 17:45

my attitude is alright; however, since I'm not looking for essays/columns but just pics and some data, the source's alignment might not actually matter.

Sirotnikov · July 4, 2003, 14:34

Israeli newspapers are saying that the IDF is beginning to see more serious efforts, and that the Palestinains may be serious this time.

IDF chief of staff said reportedly that he thinks that this intifada is over with.