some old guy keeps stealing from me...

Space05us · July 4, 2003, 02:54

what is he using my money for??!! ((Im talking about the SS tax (no not the nazis, the old folks)))

Ive not once in my life heard a good thing about social security, and better yet Ive heard rumors that by the time Im an old fart SS most likely wont be able to support me! So why am I forced to pay for something I dont want?

alva · July 4, 2003, 03:22

Your parents never receiced child support? Did you go to an non-subsidezed school?

Ooh, and btw, in how many wars did you risk you're live?

Flubber · July 4, 2003, 03:34

and lots of my tax money goes to disabled people or healthcare for sick people, to support programs I don't care about, to pay politicians I see as useless etc etc etc

SO WHAT??

Its all part of living in any non-anarchy-- Some of your efforts go to pay for what "government " deems best. Suck it up and live with it !

Harovan · July 4, 2003, 03:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Space05us
what is he using my money for??!! ((Im talking about the SS tax (no not the nazis, the old folks)))

Ive not once in my life heard a good thing about social security, and better yet Ive heard rumors that by the time Im an old fart SS most likely wont be able to support me! So why am I forced to pay for something I dont want?

I can feel your pain. There are some young students, who leech from me by studying and living at my tax money. Why the hell shall I pay for them? The buggers shall get a job and live on their own.

</sarcasm>

Oh wait... who was it who paid for my studies?

Sikander · July 4, 2003, 04:07

There are several issues here that could stand to be looked at. Firstly, why are we taking money from all of the other generations to subsidize the wealthiest generation? Children suffer from poverty (at least in the U.S.) much more than the elderly do, and are even less capable of taking measures to protect themselves from privation. Why transfer wealth from their parents and give it to the elderly?

Secondly, why are we continuing to rely on a government pension system that is so vulnerable to demographic trends, and so reliant on population growth? Wouldn't it be a lot safer and more stable to have everyone put away money for their own retirement? Even if this was a government managed program it would be a lot more stable.

Finally, the same generational arguments apply to medical programs for the elderly. The recently passed expansion to Medicare is a vastly larger financial commitment than the war in Iraq, the "war on terror", and the profligate spending by congress in general these last few years put together, yet the "debate" is all about how high congress is going to jump when the senior lobby tells them to.

The truth is that medical care for children yields vastly more dividends than medical care for the elderly ever will. In the first case proper medical care may protect a child from having developmental problems, and thus ensure that the child will be productive for their whole adult life. Medical care for retirees is much more likely to be expensive, and rarely produces anything tangible for society except in the negative sense of prolonging the drain on both the pension system and the medical system. The bottom line is that we all have to die sometime. Trying to prevent this is like trying to approach the speed of light. You may be able to put death off a bit longer, but the costs rise exponentially the closer you come to the end of life. If you want to spend your own money on this, fine. But don't ask everyone else to pay for you.

uh Clem · July 4, 2003, 06:38

Quote:

Medical care for retirees is much more likely to be expensive, and rarely produces anything tangible for society...

One thing it accomplishes is that it keeps people from being Social Darwinist ***holes.

Cruddy · July 4, 2003, 07:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Space05us
what is he using my money for??!! ((Im talking about the SS tax (no not the nazis, the old folks)))

Ive not once in my life heard a good thing about social security, and better yet Ive heard rumors that by the time Im an old fart SS most likely wont be able to support me! So why am I forced to pay for something I dont want?

Because by the time you want it, you're too old to pay for it.

Flandrien · July 4, 2003, 07:09

Only one solution:

Migrate to Monaco.

Flandrien · July 4, 2003, 07:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Space05us
by the time Im an old fart SS most likely wont be able to support me!

Only because other farts like you don't want to pay for it

Space05us · July 4, 2003, 09:04

Quote:

...Ooh, and btw, in how many wars did you risk you're live?

none yet, but I am joining the military when I get out of college.I would be more than happy to support veterans, but Im more annoyed with the fact that along with those who Im more than willing to help support I also have to support all the people who really didnt accomplish anything in thier lives and suck off my money because they need an inhaler from years of smoking or special drugs because of alcohol abuse. People dont deserve money simply because they are old.

Quote:

Because by the time you want it, you're too old to pay for it.

no, Im smart. Im going to do something called save my money. I wonder if that thought ever passed through anyone elses mind.

Quote:

Only because other farts like you don't want to pay for it

no, because there are too many old people as it is and my government doesnt know how to handle money properly.

please, tell me something good about social security.

and while we're at it, something worse! Why am I supporting a bunch of scum who cant get a job? Welfare has to be the WORST of all government programs, I've met one person in my life who honestly deserved to be on welfare and he refused because he knew he could do without it. Dont tell me it for the children because theres people up here where I live that have huge families so they can live off of welfare (and they admit to it)

I hate my government, I honestly do.

Harovan · July 4, 2003, 09:20

I think there are more useless things we shell out money for. Look alone the children. They are loud, **** in their diapers, later cost a fortune to raise (more than a Porsche) and after they grew up, they care **** about their parents and don't even want to pay for their medicare. Completely useless buggers. Using condoms is so much cheaper. Why don't we just spend our money for ourselves and save it for our retirement, instead of wasting it for such a ruinous investment?

Quote:

I hate my government, I honestly do.

At least this feeling I do share.

Space05us · July 4, 2003, 09:30

Quote:

I think there are more useless things we shell out money for. Look alone the children. They are loud, **** in their diapers, later cost a fortune to raise (more than a Porsche) and after they grew up, they care **** about their parents and don't even want to pay for their medicare. Completely useless buggers. Using condoms is so much cheaper. Why don't we just spend our money for ourselves and save it for our retirement, instead of wasting it for such a ruinous investment?

having children is a personal descision that the government has no say in. When you have a child you are supposed to be mature enough to understand what it will cost.

Harovan · July 4, 2003, 10:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Space05us
having children is a personal descision that the government has no say in. When you have a child you are supposed to be mature enough to understand what it will cost.

I know what it costs. I have raised a child. You?

What we are talking about is your thesis about the desire of the young generation to bail out of the generation deal. It reads "I pay for your growth and education, if you pay for my retirement." So what's your answer, if I say "You refuse to pay for my retirement? Why the heck should I pay for your living, and not go out more often instead? What else are you good for?" The government does only collect the money and makes sure, that everybody gets his share.

DinoDoc · July 4, 2003, 10:55

Who couldn't like a Ponzi scheme of this scale? Only the government would have the balls to attempt something like it.

Kuciwalker · July 4, 2003, 10:56

they're called "senators"

MichaeltheGreat · July 4, 2003, 12:03

Actually, the old guy has been paying this tax himself, without choice, for forty or fifty years.

He didn't set it up, he didn't make the rules, he had no practical choice as to paying, and now, he finally has the chance to get some of his money back.

Don't blame the old folks who've been hostage to the system all their working lives, blame the *******s in Congress and in the White House.

Space05us · July 4, 2003, 12:13

Quote:

I know what it costs. I have raised a child. You?

What we are talking about is your thesis about the desire of the young generation to bail out of the generation deal. It reads "I pay for your growth and education, if you pay for my retirement." So what's your answer, if I say "You refuse to pay for my retirement? Why the heck should I pay for your living, and not go out more often instead? What else are you good for?" The government does only collect the money and makes sure, that everybody gets his share.

no I havent raised a child yet, I still am one

I understand the "I pay for your growth and education, if you pay for my retirement." And when my mother gets to the age where she can no longer support herself or she just decides to retire I'll be there to support her. The thing I dont like is that along with supporting her I have to support the old lady down in Utah, a complete stranger who would probably hate my family because we're not religious enough.

Quote:

Don't blame the old folks who've been hostage to the system all their working lives, blame the *******s in Congress and in the White House.

Im not blaming the old folks, Im just complaining about it and arguing how stupid it is.

FrustratedPoet · July 4, 2003, 12:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Space05us
no I havent raised a child yet, I still am one

Clearly.

PLATO · July 4, 2003, 12:30

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Actually, the old guy has been paying this tax himself, without choice, for forty or fifty years.

He didn't set it up, he didn't make the rules, he had no practical choice as to paying, and now, he finally has the chance to get some of his money back.

Don't blame the old folks who've been hostage to the system all their working lives, blame the *******s in Congress and in the White House.

If the "Trust Fund" had been managed properly and not used for current expenditure, then the system would be more than solvent. A clear example of the government abusing the trust placed in it (even if we had no choice to place the trust in them).

Just 25 more years for me! Maybe something will be left by then.

Space05us · July 4, 2003, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

Clearly.

looks like Im not the only child here.

Quote:

If the "Trust Fund" had been managed properly and not used for current expenditure, then the system would be more than solvent. A clear example of the government abusing the trust placed in it (even if we had no choice to place the trust in them).

Just 25 more years for me! Maybe something will be left by then.

what did they use it on? I was under the impression that there were just too many old people.

DAVOUT · July 4, 2003, 12:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Sikander

The truth is that medical care for children yields vastly more dividends than medical care for the elderly ever will. In the first case proper medical care may protect a child from having developmental problems, and thus ensure that the child will be productive for their whole adult life. Medical care for retirees is much more likely to be expensive, and rarely produces anything tangible for society except in the negative sense of prolonging the drain on both the pension system and the medical system. The bottom line is that we all have to die sometime. Trying to prevent this is like trying to approach the speed of light. You may be able to put death off a bit longer, but the costs rise exponentially the closer you come to the end of life. If you want to spend your own money on this, fine. But don't ask everyone else to pay for you.

On this line of thinking, they are possibly right to increase dramatically the price of cigarettes, as they do here, in order to deter the active people to waste their lungs, but THEY DETER AS WELL THE RETIREES. Instead, the retirees should be given free cigarettes, and alcools.

Sava · July 4, 2003, 12:52

Quote:

Medical care for retirees is much more likely to be expensive, and rarely produces anything tangible for society...

OMFG... I can't believe this was said. Sure, it doesn't produce anything... it just allows PEOPLE TO LIVE!

MichaeltheGreat · July 4, 2003, 13:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Space05us
what did they use it on? I was under the impression that there were just too many old people.

It goes into the general fund of the US treasury, where it joins the pool of other general fund taxes that support the US budget.

Space05us · July 4, 2003, 13:20

so they just say they divide it all up but they really just pool it. why do they bother telling us what were getting taxed for if it doesnt even mean anything?

stupid government, Im fed up with it. Im going to become president and the USA will turn a profit!