some old guy keeps stealing from me... - Page 2

chequita guevara · July 4, 2003, 13:28

Despite what conservatives claim, Social Security is the single most successful program the government has ever instituted. The elderly used to be the single largest group in poverty. Today that is no longer the case, thanks to Social Security.

The reason we won't have it in the future is because conservatives in government are trying to bankrupt it so they can privitize it and the liberals don't have the cajones to stand up to them. But I'll tell you what, it will be a long cold day in hell before America lets the government throw their parents and grandparents to the wolves.

mrmitchell · July 4, 2003, 13:28

I thought you were going to say an 80 year old lady mugged you on the street.

Sava · July 4, 2003, 13:29

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Meaning you steal more than you give back

the government does this regardless of the status of the deficit/surplus

Imran Siddiqui · July 4, 2003, 13:33

Space, you are being silly. So should the elderly starve after they retire (and in some cases are forced to retire)? It may not be efficient and it may not seem fair to you now, but it is something that should be done, for the general welfare of this country.

Sava · July 4, 2003, 13:35

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but it is something that should be done, for the general welfare of this country.

I'm sorry for all the bad things I've ever said about you...

Imran Siddiqui · July 4, 2003, 13:35

You should be

.

I'm much more moderate than you give me credit for

.

Sava · July 4, 2003, 13:36

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You should be .

I'm much more moderate than you give me credit for

I was getting that feeling in the thread about the Ten Commandments in the courthouse.

Imran Siddiqui · July 4, 2003, 13:39

That judge was a freaking moron. Even if I supporting having the 10 Commandments in the courthouse, I'd still think he was an idiot. Sneaking off in the middle of the night to put it up... what the Hell?

Q Classic · July 5, 2003, 00:35

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Ive not once in my life heard a good thing about social security, and better yet Ive heard rumors that by the time Im an old fart SS most likely wont be able to support me! So why am I forced to pay for something I dont want?

you won't see a cent of it the way things are going, especially with congresspeople from both sides of the aisle pissing on each other and trying to make the other side take the blame for it.

it's the single lousiest investment for you. we put in, what, 5% or so out of every paycheck, and we'll get a whopping $0 when we're old enough to receive it...

get a roth ira, and some i bonds, man. the only way you'll get a retirement fund is if you make one for yourself.

Dr Strangelove · July 5, 2003, 01:04

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Originally posted by Sikander
There are several issues here that could stand to be looked at. Firstly, why are we taking money from all of the other generations to subsidize the wealthiest generation? Children suffer from poverty (at least in the U.S.) much more than the elderly do, and are even less capable of taking measures to protect themselves from privation. Why transfer wealth from their parents and give it to the elderly?

The earning potential of the elderly however is in the long run much more ismal than that of young people. Once they retire their personal worth is not going to grow, it's gradually going to diminish. Though the average life span of an American may be about 72 years, if you live to 65 you have significantly more than 7 years of life expectancy. It also takes more money to maintain the life of an elderly person; those medical bills add up very quickly. Finally, I might add that a very large number of children are also on one form of welfare or another.

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Secondly, why are we continuing to rely on a government pension system that is so vulnerable to demographic trends, and so reliant on population growth? Wouldn't it be a lot safer and more stable to have everyone put away money for their own retirement? Even if this was a government managed program it would be a lot more stable.

You mean like IRAs? Would you like to know what the stock market has done to my "savings" in the past two years? Why should we ask private citizens to subsidize the defense funds of corporate CEOs? Maybe having a comparitively secure retirement fund like SS actually encourages people to risk some of their personal funds in the private sector, i.e., help CEOs stay out of jail.

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Finally, the same generational arguments apply to medical programs for the elderly. The recently passed expansion to Medicare is a vastly larger financial commitment than the war in Iraq, the "war on terror", and the profligate spending by congress in general these last few years put together, yet the "debate" is all about how high congress is going to jump when the senior lobby tells them to.

The demand for prescription drug benefits has been around for more than twenty years, yet Congress hasn't so moved an inch. You call that leaping?

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The truth is that medical care for children yields vastly more dividends than medical care for the elderly ever will. In the first case proper medical care may protect a child from having developmental problems, and thus ensure that the child will be productive for their whole adult life. Medical care for retirees is much more likely to be expensive, and rarely produces anything tangible for society except in the negative sense of prolonging the drain on both the pension system and the medical system. The bottom line is that we all have to die sometime. Trying to prevent this is like trying to approach the speed of light. You may be able to put death off a bit longer, but the costs rise exponentially the closer you come to the end of life. If you want to spend your own money on this, fine. But don't ask everyone else to pay for you.

If your kid needs medical care there is a program out there to help him / her. Children are not being denied care because all the money is going to old folks.

Bugs ****ing Bunny · July 5, 2003, 03:14

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Originally posted by Space05us
none yet, but I am joining the military when I get out of college..

There's a certain irony in one complaining about others receiving support from public funds in their twilinght years when he's choosing a career path which will mean other taxpayers will be paying his way for his entire life.

Remove the plank from thine own eye....

Space05us · July 5, 2003, 03:41

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There's a certain irony in one complaining about others receiving support from public funds in their twilinght years when he's choosing a career path which will mean other taxpayers will be paying his way for his entire life.

Remove the plank from thine own eye....

Im not complaining about people getting money from the government, Im complaining that they arent earning it, and if by the time Im old I wont get the same treatment then why should these people get it?

Bugs ****ing Bunny · July 5, 2003, 03:48

Because they paid for it. Now start saving, and be a brave soldier. Those who pay your way want value for money.

Bugs ****ing Bunny · July 5, 2003, 03:55

The taxes paid by previous generations funded medical advances, improvement to social infrastructure and improved living conditions. This means we (the succeeding generation) will live longer.

This means we have an ageing population, unless we (the succeeding generation) breed like bunnies. So if you want to take a practical step, rather than just whining like a face-punched child with no sweeties, have 20 kids then drink weedkiller when you hit 60.

uh Clem · July 5, 2003, 06:45

Thank you, Laz.