Mongol Horde Succession Game

[La Fayette]

Bad boy!
I played 10 turns and then noticed that 8 turns was supposed to be OK.

please SGs: no Institute

No comment about the first glance at the Empire: the Gits said it all

Well, I decided to finish Darwin ASAP, build a new shipchain to Zululand (transports instead of caravels, as soon as we get Industrialisation), build the backbone of the future Mongol TGV* network, and beeline towards The Corporation.

(* TGV = Train à Grande Vitesse = High Speed Train; most French long distance trains now travel around 200MPH )

Main events:

1660: Industrialisation discovered; Gunpowder started
1690: Darwin completed ( provides Gunpowder and University); Economics started
1720: The Politbureau decides to send LF to the Goulag for no obvious reason (since the new shipchain is at work, the RR backbone between Karakorum and Aleppo is almost completed and Economics is to be discovered within 2 turns)

Advice to my successor:
Never trust the Politbureau.

[La Fayette]

They were in such a hurry to send me to the Gulag that I hardly managed to post the save

[Scouse Gits]

Play Order - Second Round

1) SG[1] - 8 turns
2) SG(2) - 8 turns
3) STYOM - 8 turns
4) sirsnuggles - 8 turns
5) LaFayette - 10! turns
6) -Jrabbit -
7) SCG -
8) Old'n'Slow -
9) Julius -


SG[1]

Anyone seen SCG - is he likely to pick up this round?

[-Jrabbit]

Downloaded and sent to home comp.
Committed to playing Lazy Sxn first, but will do that tonight.

Stay tuned...

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Oh Dear!


One does not build Darwin in the capital (unless you are extremely careful / lucky!)

Seriously, sirsnuggles, if any of the above need further explanation we will happily provide details of the justification for our 'theories' ...

For my benefit, if not SirSnuggles, what's wrong with Darwin's in the capital?

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

Darwin in the capital ...

When Darwin is built your civ receives two tech advances and the beaker row is emptied. Thus in an extreme case when the capital city (normally the last in the build queue) would have just failed to fill the beaker box for Advance 1 - Darwin gains only 1 beaker + 1 Advance.
With Darwin in the cap you need to arrange for the current advance to be completed by the penultimate city so as to gain the maximum profit from your 8 camels. This (for me) is extremely tricky hence my comment about careful / lucky.
However, if Darwin is built in Dirthole#5 somewhere at the end of the build list - all that needs arranging is that the beaker box is empty-ish before you commit the 'vans thus getting two advances from Darwin and virtually all your empire's beakers in the box.

Does this wandering diatribe make sense?

Cheers, SG[1]

[-Jrabbit]

OK. All caught up in Lazy Summer (and 2 other sxn played in past week).

Will gather the Mongol Hordes (none on foot) this weekend.

[sirsnuggles]

Oh Dear!

A semester polishing the marble floors of The Institute for sirsnuggles

One does not build WoWs the hard way once one has Trade!

One does not build Darwin in the capital (unless you are extremely careful / lucky!)

One does not go Commie until one can celebrate the majority of one's cities

One does not build Libraries in order to gain 7 beakers/turn when an advance costs > 1000 beakers

One does not run a luxury rate (even of 10%) when it neither stabilizes any cities nor celebrates any cities

One does not keep >1000g in the treasury in any government at any time without a very good reason

Other than that - good turns

I don't build WoW's the hard way. I don't know where you get the misconception that I don't utilize caravans or rush building. In this present game, caravans are on the way to help K build the WoW. Gold is stockpiled to finish it.

I don't understand your commie thing. Commie allows for better scientific advance when one utilizes the particular strategy that I use. I totally disagree concerning library's, you can read my thoughts on that issue in the BB forum. With the game map so spread out, my statements concerning that issue are entirely magnified.

Besides, why would you really want to celebrate in commie (other than gaining tax and science as if one were under Republic), when you could rather celebrate in Rep (and gain trade as if one were celebrating under Demo), and gain 1 in size for celebrating it specifically in Rep (an advantage not achieved in commie).

The 10% luxury rate actually was keeping at least two (I can't remember how many, but more than one), cities happy. With the rate at 0%, several of our cities were revolting. Your critique concerning the luxury rate should be obvious to all but the most novice of civ2 players, and of course, is not lost on me. IIRC, a number of our cities possessed only 1 military unit, and therefore were revolting. The 10% was required to maintain order until military units were created to do just that. Perhaps, and I'd have to check this, I forgot to reduce luxuries after creating those units.

The Darwin thing, is a toss-up. It entirely depends upon when one determines to discover advances. Even in your method, one must wait to complete (rush build) Darwin's only after an advance is just discovered (and hence requires one to be careful and watchful). Either way, it works the same, one must watch and see when the advance will be discovered. Building Darwin's in the capital is usually easier, because it is centrally located to receive the caravans of its surrounding cities.

[Scouse Gits]

sirsnuggles,

Thanks for your robust constructive defence this is what the forum is about.

WoWs the hard way - forgive me, but Darwin is abuilding in our cap - this is what I mean by the hard way!

Celebrating Commie - exactly - it is the gain of Rep Trade with NO (well virtually none) corruption and its concommitent boost of the on-going and immediate trade bonuses that I seek.
My choice of Fundy assured a very healthy cash income with a view to building many laundrettes - Temples & MarketPlaces in the first instance - perhaps even an odd Library much later once a representative government became viable

Luxuries - OK we all leave the slider in the wrong place a turn or two when we are not completely on the ball - but I was in rcc mode

Darwin - maybe you count beakers more carefully than I do

Thanks - but I still think a semester at The Institute is called for

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

Rereading your post - re WoWs the hard way - IMHO the target city should be (rush) building caravans with its shields not being locked into a Wonder...

SG[1]

[sirsnuggles]

I understand your stance concerning "shields being locked into a Wonder", I suppose that my thinking is that several turns of additional shields will simply lower the price a bit (perhaps several hundred gold).

Concerning commie v's fundy, I used to only play with fundy and never commie, but now I seem to be enjoying commie rather than fundy.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by sirsnuggles
I understand your stance concerning "shields being locked into a Wonder", I suppose that my thinking is that several turns of additional shields will simply lower the price a bit (perhaps several hundred gold).

IMO, the only time it's worthwhile to leave a city building a wonder, rather than caravans, would be where the shield wastage is excessive.

(extreme example: city producing 44 shields, and none of the 10- or 20- shield units are available. Rather than rush a diplomat from scratch (24 shields wasted), or letting the city build normally (wasting 38 shields/caravan), leave the city building the wonder)

In this game... IIRC our capital was producing 18 shields. You could let it build a Caravan in 3 turns and waste 4 shields. But we had so much cash when I was playing, that it made sense to rushbuy. And this was not the most efficient rushbuild (start a Horse, rush it after one turn, rush Diplo and then Legion, then change to Caravan and let the city finish the unit = 8 shields wasted. Let me know if there's a better way!).

And of course, in my own games I will occasionally just buy a wonder with cash from Freight delivery, rather than buy the Freights to build it with. Less efficient cashwise, more efficient in terms of how much clicking needs to be done Naturally, when I only have 10 turns to worry about every month, I don't do that sort of thing in a Succession game

[-Jrabbit]

Found a Weak, Spotless Commie Horde that was 1st only in productivity, but 3rd in land area and literacy, 4th in manufacturing, and 7th in approval, population (2.23 MM), GNP, income, and pollution.

Faders set to 20-80-0, netting a tech every 6 turns and +26 GP/turn. A lovely shipchain to Zululand is in place, along with an impressive crew of settlers working on RR infrastructure of our under-settled continent.

Tech needs: currently studying Economics.
--For Engineers, we need Chemistry - Explosives.
--For Freights, we need The Corporation.
--For Hard Fundy (have Lady), we need Metallurgy and Conscription.
--For Tactics, we need Feudalism, Chivalry, and Leadership (plus Conscription, cf).

Goals -- GROWTH!! Get Engineers and Cavalry. Escape "Weak" status. And prep an army so we can get the Horde on the road.

How much can be done in 8 turns? See the log (next post).

[-Jrabbit]

...seizes power, immediately sets to work on a Master Plan for World Domination In 8 Turns.

Hmm. Upon further review, it will be a Master Plan To Be Not "Weak" In 8 Turns. We have over 1000 GP to work with...

The Bunny Borthei came into these turns thinking, "No more boring 'growth through Democracy.' This time, we will simply romp and stomp." But a cold, hard look at the facts (see previous post) shows no other way out. (sigh)

1720
--Some minor changes in build orders. Faders set to 10-20-70. REVOLUTION!! (sigh)
ENTER

1730
--Egyptians discover Physics. Persians obtain through Great Library.
--Carth cat appears on our property. ( Already at war with them...)
--Karakorum Factory and Tabriz Market rushed.
--Tabriz silver shipment reaches Zimbabwe, 247 GP.
--Bunny Borthei installed as Supreme Khan.

1740
--Celts get Chivalry, Zulus get Metallurgy.
--We get ECONOMICS. Choices include chemistry, commie, feud, magnetism, metallurgy, sanitation, gravity. No Corporation! We select Chemistry.
--Karakorum, Basra, Tabriz, Kashgar, Nishapur, Bokhara, Samarkand declare: We the Supreme Khan!
--Ngome receives demanded coal, pays 304 GP.
--Isandhlwana gets salt (95) and oil (90).
--Barb musket killed, netting vet cruc No king.
--We note that Magellan's is held in the minor Carth city of Caralis. A Very Meaningful pin is stuck into the official Mongol Map.

1750
--Barbs land @ Nishapur.
--Carth cat in trouble, so they parley. We grant Peace to get them off our land. Gift RR -> Receptive. Trade Industrialization for Chivalry (horsies become Knights). Now cordial, Carths trade maps!!!
--Bunny Borthei revived with smelling salts, having Never Ever gotten maps at a level less than worshipful.
--Kazan, Shangtu, Ormuz decide they, too, the Supreme Khan.
--Carth cat doesn't leave, so we meet again, end up trading Physics for Feudalism.
--As long as we're feeling diplomatic, we decide to chat up the Zulus, whose wandering camel keeps delaying our RR construction plans.
--Gift Industrialization. Trade Medicine for Leadership (now have dragoons everywhere). Also trade Literacy for Metallurgy. No maps.

1752
--Zulus start Women's Suffrage.
--French get Economics (so does Persia/GL).
--French start work on Adam Smith's Trading Company.
--More white goods, as temples/marketplaces sustain growth (pop now = 3.11 MM).
--Spice to Ngome, 104 GP.
--Some xinning amid the growth.

1754
--Egyptians discover Banking, Carthaginians start Women's Suffrage.
--Isandhlwana demands vowels. Instead, we send them Oil (107) and Cloth (135, 150).
--Barbs repeled outside Nishapur, which now again says, "We the Supreme Khan!"
--Invasion force gathers in Khanbalyk, studies maps of Carth empire.

1756
--Celebrations prove too exhausting to maintain in Kashgar, Samarkand, xinning Karakorum.
--We discover CHEMISTRY. New tech choices are juicy, including Conscription, The Corporation, and Explosives. After much thought, we decide to go with The Corp.
--Persians get Chemistry from GL.
--Basra sends coal to Ulundi, 297 GP.
--Isandhlwana decides they don't want a vowel after all. But they do demand our Gold (376 GP) and Silk (432 GP). Gems (147) also delivered.
--Transport taken off shipchain, sent to help with Carth invasion being mounted in Khanbalyk.

1758
--Celts trade Gunpowder to Carths for Industrialization.
--Zulus discoveer Steam Engine (Persians/GL).
--White goods (including some Barracks), increments everywhere.
--Invasion force continues to grow in Khanbalyk. (Note that Carths have an all-vet force re Sun Tzu.)

1760
--Sliders moved to 10-40-50.
--Celts, Persians start on Women's Suffrage.
--We get Freights with discovery of THE CORPORATION. Explosives not offered, but Conscription is.
--Gift RR to the French, who then trade us Sanitation for Industrialization.
--Ishadhlwana gets shipments of Hides (144 + 170 GP) and Oil (322).
--Destined to be remembered primarily for being greatly loved, the Supreme Khan Bunny Borthei retires to his country estate.

CLOSING DEMOGRAPHICS
Now 1st in the following categories: approval, GNP, income, and productivity. 3rd in land area, 4th in manufactured goods, 5th in population (now 4.57 MM, more than double where we started).

We also managed to pick up 8 techs in 8 turns. Nothing left to trade for IIRC. Kudos to my predecessor (La Fayette, I believe) for the fine shipchain to Zululand and having EVERY SINGLE CITY at work on camels when I took over!

Though we remain Spotless, the Bunny Borthei has left his successor an excellent start toward a Carth invasion force. The RR system is nearly complete, and all those Settlers will be promoted soon, assuming Explosives is available next (which it should be).

With only a couple cities actively celebrating and an army in near-readiness, the stage is set for some, uh, Fundamental changes...

On a closing note, we're now Inadequate.
(How sad that it's an improvement...)

[Old n Slow]

Nice work JR

I d/l'd the save & will look at it while we wait for SCG. Let me know if I should sneak in sooner...

[-Jrabbit]

Let me know if I should sneak in sooner...

That decision can only be made by the Git In Charge...

And once again, compliments to whichever Git or Gits set up the "title" chart for this game.
It was most excellent to be "Supreme Khan" of a Democracy.

[Scouse Gits]

As there has been no sight nor sound of SCG, let's assume that he is skipping again - go for it OnS

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

Looks great bunny man ...

SG[1]

[-Jrabbit]

Well, I didn't get the Engineers and Cavalry I was striving for, but it is to be hoped those will be our next 2 techs.

As my wife can attest, I'm an expert at making "Inadequate" seem like an improvement.

[Old n Slow]

The world in 1760 is pleasant and is a mixture of plenty and…dry. We have about 1K of funds, lead the world in techs and have a surprising …lack of power. This may be due I part to the few cities that we have. Toggle to 1.4.5 & see what can be done about this.

1764 (1) Discover conscription, opt for Exp over Comm, Fun, Theo, TG; (Tactics not offered -- it takes about 1665 beakers per advance) (Celts discover Phy. Carthage discovers Mag.)

1766 (2) (Zulu discovers conscription => Persia gets as well.)

1768 (3) Found Quinsay -- our 15th city; only four other civs have more cities than we do. Hmmmm Carthage drops of a camel & cat on our northern shore. (Meanwhile we set up a beginning chain of boats in their dierection…) seven truck deliver freight to the Zulus demanded were copper =296 and 348, the rest were not demanded products yielding values ranging from 154-206. With that in mind we RB some more trucks (to break even on the coins and reap the beakers.) (French develop Explosives & starts WS; Eygpt discovers Feud. (hmmm -- maybe we should go visit THESE people.)

1770 (4) Discover Explosives (Persia gets as well.) Opt for Tactics over Comm, GE, Mag, Ref, TG. build a harbor in Ormuz. Pop = 5M. An engineer traveling north bumps into the Carthage cat on our shore. we ask for a favor & they declare WAR (and oh we tremble -- but only because they are such a bag of wind.) The called up dragoon barely notices a scratch taking out the offender. The Zulu camel clogging out RR demands and audience (4 Rifles) and wants Sanitation (hmmm that’s not so bad…ok -- don’t really care -- we do want to deliver goods there & with their new rifles, it will be a while before we stomp on them.) there camel FINALLY arrives.

1772 (5) deliver four trucks to the Zulus -- three demanded; payoffs range from 260 to 354. Merge an engineer to Khan -- want to get that city back up to a reasonable level.

1774 (6) Discover Tactics, opt for Theo over AW, Comm, Fun, GE, Mag, Refine. Deliver a couple of trucks. Our new cavalry tests their merit (and find it fine) and take Leptis Parva (+179 & Mag.) toggle to 4.5.1. (Zulu dev. Eco “starts” AS)

1776 (7) Deliver some more freight -- notable is the demanded wine to Mpondo = 445. Random contact upon visiting the Orange convinces the Senate to sign a permanent peace treaty. We take the opportunity to demand that a nearby knight leave the area near Tabriz (one wonders if they have more than just a random unit on our shores -- have they settled a city?)

1778 (8) Zulu builds Adam Smith (Egypt abandons) Carthage warns about our cavalry’s closeness (yeah, yeah) discover Theology; opt for Elec over AW, Comm, GE, Refine, TG. deliver seven undemanded freight ranging from 84 to 238 in payoffs.

Notes for the next player. JSB is ours on the next turn -- the only reason not to accept it is if a civ researching Commy already has significant effort towards WS & may switch & get THAT too soon. I didn’t check their research, but so it might be a potential hesitation.

My wandering engineer in the North was aiming to road a few spaces, then settle (I wanted more cities but built trucks instead. Similarly, the RR is almost complete end to end.)

We have four trucks -- and all of them are in Zulu territory, with mostly demanded products.

We still have a spotless rep (so what). I decided that rather than squander that, I’d leave the next player the choice. Also with that choice is 8 cavalry (most are partially moved this turn) waiting to be shipped along the boat chain (yet to move) to Carthage to join with the nine cavalry already there. Only a few are vets, so the choice of smacking ; revolting, asking for tribute (we have SoL so we can return to whatever government next turn) and smacking or just sitting is up to you. Oh by the way, the city ripe for picking near Leptis is Caralis -- containing Magellan’s.

Have fun…I did.

[-Jrabbit]

A good read, OnS. I made the same choice re camels vs. new cities. In a conquest game, you get your new cities prebuilt by the other civs!

I'm a bit surprised you didn't get to Caralis yet. Copping Magellan's will be ssWweeet!

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit

As my wife can attest, I'm an expert at making "Inadequate" seem like an improvement.

I wouldn't dare ask mine

[-Jrabbit]

Julius Brenzaida, where are you?

[Old n Slow]

We can still take Caralis on this turn -- the Cavalry in Carthage have yet to commit to action...

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
We can still take Caralis on this turn -- the Cavalry in Carthage have yet to commit to action...

Can't believe you didn't go for it, OnS...

[Scouse Gits]

Thank you JRabbit and OnS for keeping things moving. Please continue and work around us as all Gits will be on holiday for two weeks from this weekend.



---------------

SG(2)

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Please continue and work around us as all Gits will be on holiday for two weeks from this weekend.

Much relaxation be with you!

That puts it to the Six thousand Year Old Man.

[duke o' york]

Vintners of the world beware!

The SGs are on holiday and could be in your area.
Stock up! Stock up!

We'll need a special version of the SG smiley with sunglasses.

[Julius Brenzaida]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Julius Brenzaida, where are you?

Well, in Switzerland, as usual
I download the game and will play over the week-end

[Julius Brenzaida]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
We can still take Caralis on this turn -- the Cavalry in Carthage have yet to commit to action...

I guess it's up to me to risk my reputation and try to attack