Crumbling U.N. Seeks $1 Billion for Renovation - Page 2

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 04:55

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MM, that's comparing apples and oranges. It all depends on the renovation needs.

They are both in the same city, in the same borough. They share the same weather, city services, material costs, labor costs, and economies. The only two differences I see is that the ESB is older, and (as far as I know) the UN dosen't pay property taxes.

Saras · July 7, 2003, 04:55

IIRC, the Brits invaded alongside US and took Basra.

And don't give me France. We all know their "special relationship" with the Baath regime.

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 04:59

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Originally posted by Saras
The land there is owned by Tony Soprano, right?

In a manner of speaking...I understand that the guy he's based on is under it.

Nubclear · July 7, 2003, 05:03

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Originally posted by Saras
IIRC, the Brits invaded alongside US and took Basra.

I'm talking about populations

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And don't give me France. We all know their "special relationship" with the Baath regime.

The French people had a special relationsihp with the Baath Regieme?

HershOstropoler · July 7, 2003, 05:04

I always thought Rumsie had a special relationship with the Iraqi Baath regime.

Saras · July 7, 2003, 05:09

Quote:

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
I always thought Rumsie had a special relationship with the Iraqi Baath regime.

Rumsie and Saddam... together? You gotta be kidding me!

HershOstropoler · July 7, 2003, 05:14

Impossibile!

Saras · July 7, 2003, 05:19

It's an abomination, therefore, Saddam should be stoned to death.

Drake Tungsten · July 7, 2003, 05:53

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Yes. Geneva or Vienna will be happy to host the UN headquarters.

They can have it.

HershOstropoler · July 7, 2003, 05:54

Excellent.

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 06:03

A recent item on your potential new neighbors...

Quote:

MAYOR MICHAEL R. BLOOMBERG AND U.S. AMBASSADOR PATRICK F. KENNEDY ANNOUNCE HISTORIC DIPLOMATIC PARKING PROGRAM

Mission and Consular Officials Must Comply with Parking Rules, Pay Portion of Outstanding Debt, and Will Receive Country Specific On-Street Parking Spaces

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and US Ambassador to the United Nations for Management and Reform Patrick F. Kennedy today announced a historic Diplomatic Parking Program that will improve traffic flow and safety and make it easier for missions and consulates to conduct their official business. The Parking Program, which finalizes an agreement reached in principle on August 9, requires Diplomatic and Consular officials to pay future parking tickets and a substantial portion of the parking debt that has accrued since 1997. The agreement will sharply reduce the total number of Diplomatic and Consular vehicles in New York City with on-street parking privileges by approximately 75%, from 2,600 to 530. In addition, if Diplomatic and Consular officials do not pay their future parking tickets the State Department will suspend or refuse to renew their registrations and the City will reduce or eliminate the parking spaces assigned to each mission or consulate. The Mayor thanked Secretary of State Colin Powell and others involved in the negotiations for their help in resolving this long-standing issue.

"With this comprehensive parking program, we will improve traffic flow and safety by drastically reducing the number of Diplomatic vehicles with parking privileges and making them adhere to our parking laws, while at the same time making it easier for Diplomats and Consular officials to do the important work that they do," Mayor Bloomberg said. "Diplomats are finally going to play by the rules and pay their tickets. I would like to thank Secretary of State Colin Powell for his understanding of our situation and Senators Clinton and Schumer and Congressman Fossella for their support during the negotiations. Finally, none of this would have been possible without the hard work of my predecessor, Rudy Giuliani."

State Department spokesman Philip T. Reeker said, "Secretary of State Powell is pleased with the parking program he was able to work out with Mayor Michael Bloomberg. The Department of State believes all Diplomats should pay for all legitimate parking violations. As this parking program illustrates, we recognize the importance of following the international laws that govern Diplomats in our country."

Congressman Vito J. Fossella said, "I am pleased that the Mayor has finalized this important agreement that will require Diplomats to follow the laws of our City. Whether you are a teacher, carpenter, prince, sheik, or baron, the laws should apply equally to all people. Our goal from the very start was to force a compromise - and we have achieved just that with this agreement. I want to thank Mayor Bloomberg and Secretary Powell for their commitment to find a resolution to this matter."

Senator Charles E. Schumer said, "I applaud Mayor Bloomberg and Secretary Powell for coming up with a solution to the diplomatic parking ticket problem that will begin to give New York what it has long been owed. I, along with Vito Fossella and the House, have proposed legislation that will establish an enduring federal solution to ensure that all diplomatic scofflaws continue to pay their fines."

The City's Diplomatic parking program contains the following key components:

Any car, regardless of ownership, without current "Diplomatic" or "Consular" license plates is subject to ticketing the same way ordinary citizens' cars are.

The City will assign a specific on street parking space to each mission and consulate for a total of 530 spaces, approximately the same number of Diplomatic parking spaces as exist in the City today. Only a specifically decaled car assigned to each mission or consulate will be permitted to park in that space. There will be only 530 of these decals issued. This will result in a reduction of approximately 2,100 Diplomatic and Consular cars being permitted to park in City designated Consular and Diplomatic spaces. Note that any car, regardless of type of license plate, can be ticketed if parked illegally

If three or more tickets issued after November 1 aren't paid within 100 days, the State Department will immediately remove "Consular" plates from the offending car and refuse to renew "Diplomatic" registration form those so plated. Moreover, if 40 or more tickets are unpaid, countries will lose their designated share of the 530 parking spaces. .

There will be an immediate suspension of Consular plate scofflaws (approximately 25% of all Diplomatic vehicles in the City are "Consular" plated- as opposed to "Diplomatic") who don't pay 60% of their existing debt by Sept. 1, 2002. Suspension means that the state Department will immediately physically remove "Consular" license plates. Because of restrictions in International Law, there is no legal remedy available to force "Diplomatic" car owners to pay old fines and penalties.

To expedite the payment of Diplomatic and Consular plate scofflaws, the City will institute an incentive program that will allow foreign countries to resolve their debt if they pay a set percentages from 60% to 75% of the debt by set dates until the end of this year.

Missions and consulates will adhere to the City's traffic laws. The City will continue to remove Diplomatic and Consular vehicles that present safety hazards and prevent passage by emergency vehicles. The Program specifically authorizes the City to continue to tow Diplomatic and Consular vehicles that are parked in a way that creates a safety and health risk.

Corporation Counsel Michael A. Cardozo, who led the City's negotiating team, said,
"This historic solution represents a fair resolution of a complex problem. It preserves the City's right to regulate traffic flow and enforce traffic safety laws while also allowing Diplomats to continue with their important international business."

Marjorie Tiven, Commissioner of the New York City Commission for the United Nations, Consular Corp and Protocol, noted, "Resolution of this issue has put to rest an issue that has resulted in considerable friction between the City and the Diplomatic community. It has strengthened relations between both sides while re-establishing New York City as the word's Diplomatic hub where the highest level of international relations are conducted."

Transportation Commissioner Iris Weinshall, whose agency has designated the Diplomatic and Consular parking spaces, noted, "The agreement limits the number of parking spaces offered to diplomats and restricts the cars that can use them. The result will be less congestion, improved traffic flow and increased safety on the streets."

Finance Commissioner Martha Stark, whose agency adjudicates parking tickets and collects the fines, said, "I'm confident that with a clearer set of rules, most diplomatic and Consular officials will obey parking rules, and those who don't will pay what they owe because the consequences are clear."

"Creating this parking program was a delicate task involving several agencies. In addition,
I want to thank the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and Theodore E. Strickler and Ambassador Patrick F. Kennedy and their staffs on the Federal side for their assistance and cooperation as well as the following agencies: the Law Department; the Commission for the U.N.; the Departments of Transportation and Finance; The Police Department and Taxi and Limousine Commission. Their hard work has made this deal happen and so it will be implemented fairly for everyone," the Mayor concluded.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2002b/pr226-02.html

Sandman · July 7, 2003, 06:04

The building has obviously been neglected because of funding issues, otherwise the asbestos would have been removed long ago.

Considering the billions America spends on pointless military projects, this is a bargain by comparison.

HershOstropoler · July 7, 2003, 06:06

You think other cities with a high concentration of diplomats and similar scum don't have that problem anyway?

And it's fine with me, as long as it's in Vienna.

yavoon · July 7, 2003, 06:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandman
The building has obviously been neglected because of funding issues, otherwise the asbestos would have been removed long ago.

Considering the billions America spends on pointless military projects, this is a bargain by comparison.

waste justifies more waste? man I hope ur never in charge of anything.

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 06:12

Just so long as you know what you getting into.

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 06:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandman
The building has obviously been neglected because of funding issues, otherwise the asbestos would have been removed long ago.

Considering the billions America spends on pointless military projects, this is a bargain by comparison.

Sure, and compared to a Porche Boxter, a Ford Pinto is a bargain by comparison. Do you spend money on everything "because it's a brgain"?

Why should I have to cover for their incompetance?

Sandman · July 7, 2003, 06:49

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Why should I have to cover for their incompetance?

Paying the interest will cost $20 million per year over 30 years. The UN provides economic benefits to New York; the diplomats bring money into the local economy. The money will be used hiring American companies and paying the wages of American workers. Plus, it will improve America's standing in the world. It's a good deal.

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 07:04

They don't add that much money. They don't pay taxes, they didn't pay fine until recently, and they're notoriously cheap when it comes to spending their own money.

I dislike the UN in way that only someone forced to live in the same area as them all his life can.

CerberusIV · July 7, 2003, 08:19

Relocate the UN to Baghdad.

It will mean money and jobs for the Iraqi economy and when the diplomats go past the bombed buildings and have to deal with the traffic and everything else it will remind them who they are supposed to be working for the benefit of.

New York can demolish the existing buildings and reuse the sites commercially. Their economy won't suffer.

GePap · July 7, 2003, 08:44

It is obvious that member states never felt the need to pay for major work to be done on the UN buildings since they were built, and hence their utter backwardness. As for your comparisons to the ESB, that building is a commercial building and thus has had to meet changing stadards or it would have been declared unsafe and lost its tennents, so the ocmparison is flawed.

As how how much they are asking: I am in no place to judge. If a competent and trusted firm did the annalysis, then I have no reason to doubt it.

Carver · July 7, 2003, 08:50

$1 billion is insane if it is just for the UN complex on the East River.

The Petronas Towers cost only ~$1.6 billion (I've seen slightly different figures).

DarthVeda · July 7, 2003, 08:52

That's $1 Billion in UN Dollars, I mean you have to figure in all the kickbacks they have to pay out with that, and all the other programs that are going to come up with strange reasons to take from the pot, and then there's always the addition of that adjacent 80,000 seat soccer/football stadium those foreign diplomats have been clamoring for.

DinoDoc · July 7, 2003, 08:53

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Originally posted by Carver
$1 billion is insane if it is just for the UN complex on the East River.

I'm shocked the damn thing hasn't collapsed on itself if it is for that building.

Sprayber · July 7, 2003, 09:38

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Originally posted by GePap
As for your comparisons to the ESB, that building is a commercial building and thus has had to meet changing stadards or it would have been declared unsafe and lost its tennents, so the ocmparison is flawed.

So the UN buildings don't have to worry about safety? I thought public buildings were supposed to maintain the same set of standards.

GePap · July 7, 2003, 10:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber

So the UN buildings don't have to worry about safety? I thought public buildings were supposed to maintain the same set of standards.

Under what code? The UN is not US territory (it's not anyone's territory) so they do not haver to legaly met the building codes of any specific member states. And since the UN and its members have porbalby been to cheap to spend money to upgrade over time, i can imagine how it has deteriorated so bady.

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 10:23

I wonder how much of that one billion dollars will be going to refurbish the cafeterias that the occupants looted a few months ago...

GePap · July 7, 2003, 10:25

300 million.....

The Mad Monk · July 7, 2003, 10:30

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

Under what code? The UN is not US territory (it's not anyone's territory) so they do not haver to legaly met the building codes of any specific member states. And since the UN and its members have porbalby been to cheap to spend money to upgrade over time, i can imagine how it has deteriorated so bady.

Which, of course, returns to the question: why must I pay for their incompetance?

It costs enough as it is just paying for our incompetance.

DanS · July 7, 2003, 10:33

This is the Goldman Sachs tower, being built in Jersey City just across the river from Manhattan, at a cost of $650 million

That's a king's ransom for only 2 million square feet. It is about $100/ft^2 more expensive than normal skyscraper space.

DanS · July 7, 2003, 10:36

As to the briefing, it's amazing how we go from "several financing options" in the briefing in 2000 to "[i]t is an established norm set by the host countries following the example set by the U.S. government after World War II to provide an interest-free loan" in the 2003 article.