New HDI Rankings; Canada Apparently Sucks Now

[Az]

Year of highest value of PPP per capita:

Russia: 1989
Bulgaria: 1989
Macedonia: 1991
Ukraine:1989
Romania:1987
Kazakhstan:1989
Turkmenistan:1988
Georgia: 1985
Armenia:1990
Azerbaidjan:1992
Uzbekistan:1989
Kyrgistan:1990
Moldova:1989
Tajikistan:1988
Latvia:1989
Lithuania:1990
Estonia:1989
Belarus:1990

[Imran Siddiqui]

God I wanna be a Norwegian citizen.

So what's stopping ya?

[Maniac]

Where do you guys get all those figures about GNP and cell phones? The only link I see in this thread is to some small article.

[Az]

hdr.undp.com

you can download the entire report there. It's some 7 Megs.

[Maniac]

Ah thanks.

Edit: Link doesn't work for me.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Year of highest value of PPP per capita:

That is assuming Soviet numbers were accurate and correct

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

God I wanna be a Norwegian citizen.

So what's stopping ya?

It's actually extremely difficult to get citizenship there.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Damn racist Norwegians!

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Year of highest value of PPP per capita:

That is assuming Soviet numbers were accurate and correct

Ahh, I forgot, the UN is part of the evil commie conspiracy... carry on...

[Provost Harrison]

Britain is 13th? I am surprised...this place is a horrible place to live...

[DinoDoc]

I believe that's why you are below us.

[Az]

God I hate you whiners.

I am sure I can find some folk from Togo that would just LOVE to switch places with you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ahh, I forgot, the UN is part of the evil commie conspiracy

The UN got its numbers from the Soviet Government, which was the only place that any numbers came from (since independant agencies weren't allowed to enter).

And btw, yes .

Britain is 13th? I am surprised...this place is a horrible place to live...

Well... compared with the rest of the world, not so much .

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Norway sends conservatives into apoplectic fits because it has an enormous living standard and a welfare state. Hell, if you're depressed, Norway will pay for you to take a vacation someomeplace warm, and you don't have to come back 'till you're feeling better. God I wanna be a Norwegian citizen.

Couldn't you just say you were depressed and live your entire life on some Caribbean beach then without to do anything?

[Kuciwalker]

But Canada, which had been in first place in the overall index of 175 countries for seven years until 2001, conducted its own poll, apparently timed to the U.N. report.

Canadian media reported that 89 percent of the country had an "absolute conviction that we have a better quality of life than the United States."

And people call the US uber-patriotic to the point of stupidity

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Ahh, I forgot, the UN is part of the evil commie conspiracy

The UN got its numbers from the Soviet Government, which was the only place that any numbers came from (since independant agencies weren't allowed to enter).

So, how come don't all the numbers top at 89? or 90?

[Imran Siddiqui]

A lot of them do, don't they?

Of course, you couldn't tell someone from Georgia.S.S.R that things were getting better when things were going into the crapper.

That, and it would be very, very, very fishy if every S.S.R. was improving every year. Even though some people were a bit skeptical at the numbers back then, it would have been totally unbelievable if they doctored the numbers that much.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Couldn't you just say you were depressed and live your entire life on some Caribbean beach then without to do anything?

Why do you think I want to be a citizen?

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
A lot of them do, don't they?

Of course, you couldn't tell someone from Georgia.S.S.R that things were getting better when things were going into the crapper.

That, and it would be very, very, very fishy if every S.S.R. was improving every year. Even though some people were a bit skeptical at the numbers back then, it would have been totally unbelievable if they doctored the numbers that much.

You have no evidence, you have NOTHING!

and you want to destroy communism, you criminal...













Seriously, though:
As a person who actually IS from Georgia, things weren't going into the crapper. . It's funny that these numbers indicate that some SSRs weren't improving for a couple of years in a row. how does that settle with your theory?

Cute theory, no evidence. Does that mean that you actually think that there is no reliable info on the SUs GDP?

[Imran Siddiqui]

It's funny that these numbers indicate that some SSRs weren't improving for a couple of years in a row. how does that settle with your theory?

Because some had to go down. Making them ALL go up is totally ridiculous.

Does that mean that you actually think that there is no reliable info on the SUs GDP?

Basically yes (at least after Stalin's reforms of the early 1930s). I believe some Western economists went over after the fall and looked at the numbers and found the actual numbers were way lower than the reported ones. However, they can't go back that far. You wonder how much the numbers were doctored. One of the more interesting things was how far the ruble dropped after the switch over, when it was decided that it really wasn't worth nearly as much as the old Soviet government said it was.

At least in an open society if the numbers are doctored someone, sometime is gonna nail your ass. Not so in the SU.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
It's the Socialist Saudi Arabia!

It's just like Saudi Arabia, except that it doesn't fund terrorists, has high literacy, doesn't abuse foreign workers, isn't known for preventing evacuation of burning buildings by veil-less women, and respects human rights. The similarity is staggering.:P

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by St Leo
It's just like Saudi Arabia,

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

It's funny that these numbers indicate that some SSRs weren't improving for a couple of years in a row. how does that settle with your theory?

Because some had to go down. Making them ALL go up is totally ridiculous.

Why? It happens to western economies all the time. ( If you claim that the Soviet Union faked their numbers completely, they had to fake them good, to match up with the west and all. )

Quote:

Does that mean that you actually think that there is no reliable info on the SUs GDP?

Basically yes. I believe some Western economists went over after the fall and looked at the numbers and found the actual numbers were way lower than the reported ones. However, they can't go back that far.

The IMMENSE fall in GDP after the fall of the SU is a well-know thing. That part seems to be right

You wonder how much the numbers were doctored. One of the more interesting things was how far the ruble dropped after the switch over, when it was decided that it really wasn't worth nearly as much as the old Soviet government said it was.

I am sure that whenif the Federal Government will fall in the US, the dollar won't lose it's value AT ALL.

At least in an open society if the numbers are doctored someone, sometime is gonna nail your ass. Not so in the SU.

Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. That was true for both cases. The problem in that system was a lack of Ruble fiscal responsibility, and lack of accountability by the government.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's actually extremely difficult to get citizenship there.

That's because socialists are the only ones more worried about welfare spunges & cheats then conservatives.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why? It happens to western economies all the time.

What do you mean? When the US economy moves, not all it regions move together. Right now some states are growing (as is the US as a whole) but some states are falling as well.

The IMMENSE fall in GDP after the fall of the SU is a well-know thing. That part seems to be right

No, they looked at the actual pre-fall numbers, which Gorby kept around after he took power, which showed that actual GDP of the SU was much less than reported. It wasn't as near to the US as much as they thought (relying on 'official' Soviet numbers). It is harder to get the actual numbers from the Krushchev and Brezniv eras... and almost impossible to get them from the Stalin era.

I am sure that if the Federal Government will fall in the US, the dollar won't lose it's value AT ALL.

It won't utterly collapse as badly. Why? Because economists won't come over from other countries and say that the value of the dollar was based on false reports.

--

In the end I think it is very hard to find out the Soviet Union's actual GDP. We probably will never have all the numbers, unfortunetly.

[Imran Siddiqui]

On that list, I agree with Russia's number... but I don't agree with the numbers given to the Baltic states or, even, some Eastern European countries.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Azazel
God I hate you whiners.

I am sure I can find some folk from Togo that would just LOVE to switch places with you.

Try living here and listening to the Sex Pistols...you'll get the idea...and then there is the weather

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Why? It happens to western economies all the time.

What do you mean? When the US economy moves, not all it regions move together. Right now some states are growing (as is the US as a whole) but some states are falling as well.

There are many countries in the west who grow most of the time. THe proper scale isn't a region but a country.

Quote:

The IMMENSE fall in GDP after the fall of the SU is a well-know thing. That part seems to be right

No, they looked at the actual pre-fall numbers, which Gorby kept around after he took power, which showed that actual GDP of the SU was much less than reported. It wasn't as near to the US as much as they thought (relying on 'official' Soviet numbers). It is harder to get the actual numbers from the Krushchev and Brezniv eras... and almost impossible to get them from the Stalin era.

Ok, so what are the actual pre-fall numbers?

Quote:

I am sure that if the Federal Government will fall in the US, the dollar won't lose it's value AT ALL.

It won't utterly collapse as badly. Why? Because economists won't come over from other countries and say that the value of the dollar was based on false reports.

you're kidding, right? If the government, the entire political system completly collapses, and is replaced by anarchy, basically, you think that the value of the dollar won't plummet?

[Imran Siddiqui]

THe proper scale isn't a region but a country.

But you are taking an entire region (USSR and Eastern Europe).

Ok, so what are the actual pre-fall numbers?

Since I don't have my 'Economics of the USSR and Russia' textbook, I can't give you exact answers... but IIRC, it was on the order of 1/4th to 1/3rd less than actual.

If the government, the entire political system completly collapses, and is replaced by anarchy, basically, you think that the value of the dollar won't plummet?

If there is another government waiting in the wings that most people would support? I'd think the dollar would fall, but not reach the depths of the ruble. The value may fall by half, but when you have a leader and a believed system to be put into place, it wouldn't totally collapse.

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

THe proper scale isn't a region but a country.

But you are taking an entire region (USSR and Eastern Europe).

Quote:

Ok, so what are the actual pre-fall numbers?

Since I don't have my 'Economics of the USSR and Russia' textbook, I can't give you exact answers... but IIRC, it was on the order of 1/4th to 1/3rd less than actual.

I guess we'll wait for an answer for that one. ANYWAY, this is PPP we're talking about, not GDP, so I don't know how the USSR fabricated those.

Quote:

If the government, the entire political system completly collapses, and is replaced by anarchy, basically, you think that the value of the dollar won't plummet?

If there is another government waiting in the wings that most people would support? I'd think the dollar would fall, but not reach the depths of the ruble. The value may fall by half, but when you have a leader and a believed system to be put into place, it wouldn't totally collapse.

You're forgetting that:
-The country has split into parts.
-A sudden supply of USD dollars become available, dollars with which you could buy a wide variety of stuff. regular rules of supply and demand don't apply, because, that dollar was much more useful in the new enviroment, than in the Soviet era.
-The economy has stopped. Unlike in market economies, the economy won't continue to run, despite the fall of government. It's a completely different situation.

The premise that the fall of the ruble was because of bloated economy numbers is wrong. Since most currency doesn't actually mean anything, and is not attached to real value, the whole thing works on trust. There was no trust in the Ruble at that point, because the entire regime that printed the ruble was gone. Heck, even in the money was attached to actual valuables, the fact that the government was gone was quite enough a push to make it worthless.