Realistic democracy game with World 2003 - Page 2

Arnelos · July 11, 2003, 17:21

I could build this if I wanted to spend the time... but spending the time would be insane...

It's possible, though.

Panag · July 11, 2003, 20:37

hi ,

Arnelos , ugandan troops are holding and staging a war against congo -Kin , pal's dont like the arabs , and the arabs dont like pals , ....

iran , japan

have a nice day

Arnelos · July 11, 2003, 20:55

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

Arnelos , ugandan troops are holding and staging a war against congo -Kin , pal's dont like the arabs , and the arabs dont like pals , ....

iran , japan

have a nice day

oops... did I put Uganda in the wrong camp? oh well, that's easily changable.

The palestinians probably wouldn't even get modeled in the game... not enough space. So no big worries, there. Besides, "like" and "aligned" are two very different things...

maciek · July 11, 2003, 23:38

Regarding World 2003:

The map size is 256/204 (Kitten Of Chaos' work, based on Marla Singer's map), and there's 31 civilizations (sorry I don't have the time to list them all, you'd have to download the scenario and see it).

Cities and units can always be re-assigned if you find the civ divisions inadequate.

Certainly, you don't want to change the map as it would take literally months to re-do all the work (cities, unit divisions, mil. bases).

The recommended specs are as follows:

512MB RAM
Pentium 4 1.6GHz
Windows 2000/XP

Because of the enormous amount of detail, on slower computers it can take as much as 30 minutes to complete the AI turn.

Now, I'm not trying to scare or turn you away, just letting you know the facts.

It will be much better if we wait for playing World 2003 demo game until we (editing team) reduce the amount of units (by using a lower conversion ratio, such as 1 tank unit = 400 real world tanks).

To download World 2003 (~ 30mb), go to http://maciek.home.insightbb.com/ and grab:

4Clicks Setup
Scenario v20
Patch v20
Essentials Pack #1
Essentials Pack #2
Essentials Pack #3
Essentials Pack #4
Essentials Pack #5
Essentials Pack #6

OOPS! The link to patch 20.1 is incorrect, here's correct link: http://home.insightbb.com/~maciek/Sa...v20_Patch1.exe

If you download all files to the same folder, simply run 4Clicks to install all files. Then, install v20 Patch 1.

PS. Oh ok, I'll post the list of civs soon.

maciek · July 11, 2003, 23:48

World 2003 civilizations:

Italy and Greece
Spain and Portugal
Turkey
Arabic Nations
Germany
Russia
China
America
Japan
France
India
Syria
Pakistan
Israel
Australia, NZ
UK
Afghanistan
Iran
South Korea
North Korea
Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela
North Africa
Canada
Central Africa
South East Asia
Eastern Europe
Indonesia
Mexico
Argentina, Chile, Peru and Bolivia
Brazil

If you wish to discuss the World 2003 itself (NOT the demo game), including the above mentioned choice of civilizations, PLEASE do it at World 2003 forum - http://world2003-forum.tk , as we simply cannot keep track of several forums.

It will be very hard to convert this scenario to multiplayer, before anything is done (reducing civs), we have to work out lower conversion ratios to reduce the amount of units on the map (at the moment, it's roughly on brigade level).

maciek · July 11, 2003, 23:58

Here's a Demo Game section at World 2003: http://world2003.hyperboards.com/ind...board=demogame

mrmitchell · July 12, 2003, 00:35

jesus, that's a helluva computer...

it would definitely need to be cut down some for any kind of DG. just think of the mayhem...agh...my brain...

Panag · July 12, 2003, 01:47

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
Regarding World 2003:

The map size is 256/204 (Kitten Of Chaos' work, based on Marla Singer's map), and there's 31 civilizations (sorry I don't have the time to list them all, you'd have to download the scenario and see it).

Cities and units can always be re-assigned if you find the civ divisions inadequate.

Certainly, you don't want to change the map as it would take literally months to re-do all the work (cities, unit divisions, mil. bases).

The recommended specs are as follows:

512MB RAM
Pentium 4 1.6GHz
Windows 2000/XP

Because of the enormous amount of detail, on slower computers it can take as much as 30 minutes to complete the AI turn.

Now, I'm not trying to scare or turn you away, just letting you know the facts.

It will be much better if we wait for playing World 2003 demo game until we (editing team) reduce the amount of units (by using a lower conversion ratio, such as 1 tank unit = 400 real world tanks).

To download World 2003 (~ 30mb), go to http://maciek.home.insightbb.com/ and grab:

4Clicks Setup
Scenario v20
Patch v20
Essentials Pack #1
Essentials Pack #2
Essentials Pack #3
Essentials Pack #4
Essentials Pack #5
Essentials Pack #6

OOPS! The link to patch 20.1 is incorrect, here's correct link: http://home.insightbb.com/~maciek/Sa...v20_Patch1.exe

If you download all files to the same folder, simply run 4Clicks to install all files. Then, install v20 Patch 1.

PS. Oh ok, I'll post the list of civs soon.

hi ,

to small ( the above ) , the map from el mencey in the dir is way better , all it needs are a couple small modifications and you have the best world map around

, btw , the map is 362X362

have a nice day

Libertine · July 12, 2003, 07:08

Ok lets see. I saw all the suggestions. I would like to ask my Israeli freind what he is proposing to the map. I think the map itself is fine. I had the idea of using el mencey's but that would mean a lot of work and the recources on el mencey's map i feel oare not as accurate as on Kitten of Chaos' map.
When this scenario is ready for a demogame there will be accurate military divisions etc and budgets for country, also it will take a lot longer to build units as this scenarios prides itself on being realistic.

For each nation (bloc) in this demo game we will need governors of certain areas, governor advisers, military Generals in control of divisions, a President and his/her advisors. Also for each nation realistic constitutions will be placed to guide the leaders of that nation. I think when we have worked out what 8 nation blocs will be in the demogame we could then make factfiles for the country's, thus people can then choose which nation blocs appeal to them the most.

As Maciek mentioned we now have a demogame section on http://world2003.hyperboards2.com

Thanks.

ps-does anyone need screenshots?

maciek · July 12, 2003, 07:59

Panag: No processor in existence will be able to handle a 360x360 map. As I said, to play World 2003 comfortably on a 256x204, you need at least a Pentium 4 1.6GHz and minimum 512MB RAM.

A single Pentium 4 3.0 GHz CPU with HT and 2GB RAM will still be too slow for 360x360.

Panag · July 12, 2003, 09:47

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
Panag: No processor in existence will be able to handle a 360x360 map. As I said, to play World 2003 comfortably on a 256x204, you need at least a Pentium 4 1.6GHz and minimum 512MB RAM.

A single Pentium 4 3.0 GHz CPU with HT and 2GB RAM will still be too slow for 360x360.

hi ,

, thats a joke right , ......

if we can let it run on old comps that have a 650 and 768 ram , ......

have you ever tried it , ... obviously not , because if you would have you would know that it runs great with anything over one one gig , and one gig of ram , ......

have a nice day

Panag · July 12, 2003, 09:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertine
Ok lets see. I saw all the suggestions. I would like to ask my Israeli freind what he is proposing to the map. I think the map itself is fine. I had the idea of using el mencey's but that would mean a lot of work and the recources on el mencey's map i feel oare not as accurate as on Kitten of Chaos' map.
When this scenario is ready for a demogame there will be accurate military divisions etc and budgets for country, also it will take a lot longer to build units as this scenarios prides itself on being realistic.

For each nation (bloc) in this demo game we will need governors of certain areas, governor advisers, military Generals in control of divisions, a President and his/her advisors. Also for each nation realistic constitutions will be placed to guide the leaders of that nation. I think when we have worked out what 8 nation blocs will be in the demogame we could then make factfiles for the country's, thus people can then choose which nation blocs appeal to them the most.

As Maciek mentioned we now have a demogame section on http://world2003.hyperboards2.com

Thanks.

ps-does anyone need screenshots?

hi ,

load the map and see , most of the rescources are in good order , kittens map is to small and misses some " key points ", ....

marla's map over it anyday

the maps can be found in the apolyton directory , top right

have a nice day

maciek · July 14, 2003, 03:54

Yes I've tried... In fact, I play World 2003 quite often (I'm a co-editor, so it's quite obvious I've tried

) On a 256x204 map, it takes 5 hours to load (Duron 1.3GHz, 512MB RAM)... Considering that a larger (360x360) map will require more details (e.g. more units, more cities), loading time itself would be about 7-10 hours, and it would take about 1 hour for the AI turn to complete.

I'm not talking about a clean map, but World 2003 using a large map.

We're working on reducing the unit numbers to a divisional level, but it still won't give any real performance boost, as Civ3 is.... erm... slooow. However, when we finish, it will be perfect for a demo game.

Seriously, I wish you could prove me wrong.

maciek · July 14, 2003, 03:59

CITIZEN SIGNUP: http://world2003.hyperboards.com/ind...162548&start=0

Panag, let me put it this way: we'll set up a PayPal fund, and if you manage to "convert" World 2003 to a larger map, and scale up the details (units, cities) while maintaining reasonable performance, you'll get all the money from the fund.

Panag · July 14, 2003, 05:49

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
Yes I've tried... In fact, I play World 2003 quite often (I'm a co-editor, so it's quite obvious I've tried

) On a 256x204 map, it takes 5 hours to load (Duron 1.3GHz, 512MB RAM)... Considering that a larger (360x360) map will require more details (e.g. more units, more cities), loading time itself would be about 7-10 hours, and it would take about 1 hour for the AI turn to complete.

I'm not talking about a clean map, but World 2003 using a large map.

We're working on reducing the unit numbers to a divisional level, but it still won't give any real performance boost, as Civ3 is.... erm... slooow. However, when we finish, it will be perfect for a demo game.

Seriously, I wish you could prove me wrong.

hi ,

if it takes hours , there is something very seriously wrong with your comp , ......... something so serious that you ought to do something about it , .......

have a nice day

Panag · July 14, 2003, 05:51

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
CITIZEN SIGNUP: http://world2003.hyperboards.com/ind...162548&start=0

Panag, let me put it this way: we'll set up a PayPal fund, and if you manage to "convert" World 2003 to a larger map, and scale up the details (units, cities) while maintaining reasonable performance, you'll get all the money from the fund.

hi ,

thanks

but that aint needed , ....

world 2003 , whats wrong with el mencey world map , or marla's , .......

have a nice day

maciek · July 14, 2003, 08:16

Mate, you just don't know what are you talking about

Ask others if you don't believe me - I know at least 100 people who will confirm my statement. Have you even played World 2003? If yes, tell me what CPU you have and how long does it take to load it.

Libertine · July 14, 2003, 09:43

Ok when i first loaded the first ever saved game it took me 7 hours. I have a very slow computer and i play it lots and its slow. But people who have better computers it takes 4 hours to load. Each turn takes around 15-45mins i think you should actually test it for yourself instead of acusing maciek of lieing. El Mencey's map would needlesly slow the game down. Im not changing map, end of subject its not gonna happen.

joncnunn · July 14, 2003, 11:21

Besides, PLO and Humas would be adequately represented by a block containing Syria (including it's Lebanoese puppet govt) / Iran / Libya.

If enemy units can't start inside somebody elses territory, just relocate the represention of guerrlias from Isreal into Southern Lebanon and Southern Syria where they get their supplies from.

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos

The palestinians probably wouldn't even get modeled in the game... not enough space. So no big worries, there. Besides, "like" and "aligned" are two very different things...

joncnunn · July 14, 2003, 11:27

On the Memory requirement, XP uses significantly more memory than Windows Me.

If 512K is minimum for Windows Me, the XP requirment should be somewhere in the 600s.

While if 512K is minimum for XP, then somewhere in the high 300s should be fine for Windows Me.

joncnunn · July 14, 2003, 11:31

Italy and Greece seems to be a very odd grouping to me.

They were on opposite sides of WW II in addition to the Iraqi war.

Libertine · July 14, 2003, 11:35

Well world war 2 has passed and the Iraqi war aint gonna mess up their relationship. Would you rather Greece be with Turkey? Thats the only option. i think we should stop l;ooking at Iraqi war divisions, they are over! We havent let them temporary divisions for country's such as Greece and Italy get in the way of the groupings, the groupings are fuindamentally linked in with culture etc.

BigFree · July 18, 2003, 07:02

Someone got panag to shut up!

Great scenario, I wish you guys could pair it down a bit; the load time kills me.

Panag · July 18, 2003, 08:17

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFree

Someone got panag to shut up!

Great scenario, I wish you guys could pair it down a bit; the load time kills me.

hi ,

wtf are you talking about

bye

Panag · July 18, 2003, 08:56

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
Mate, you just don't know what are you talking about

Ask others if you don't believe me - I know at least 100 people who will confirm my statement. Have you even played World 2003? If yes, tell me what CPU you have and how long does it take to load it.

hi ,

thanks for the edit , .......

did you see its thread at cfc yet , mate , ........

at least 100 people can confirm it works and does need seven to eight hours , .......

have a nice day

maciek · July 25, 2003, 10:51

The point is: IF it takes 7 hours with a 256x204 map, how MUCH LONGER will it take with a 350x350 or a bigger map? In the end of the day, it doesn't matter, because we're not going to use a larger map, just like Libertine said below.

Panag · July 25, 2003, 10:55

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
What edit and which thread?

Panag, this is what you said:

I'm glad that finally you agree with me, but are you also saying that there's something wrong with everyone's computers?

The point is: IF it takes 7 hours with a 256x204 map, how MUCH LONGER will it take with a 350x350 or a bigger map? In the end of the day, it doesn't matter, because we're not going to use a larger map, just like Libertine said below.

hi ,

see the smilie , its supposed to mean " does NOT need seven to eight hours " , .......

still no problem with it , .....

there are some people at cfc who can confirm that it does not need hours etc , .......

have a nice day

maciek · July 25, 2003, 11:10

OK

Have a good weekend.

Panag · July 25, 2003, 11:17

Quote:

Originally posted by maciek
OK

Have a good weekend.

hi ,

thanks , btw you can search the cfc boards without being a member , .....

some people wrote a huge volume on it not to long ago , .....

have a nice day

Panag · July 25, 2003, 11:22

hi ,

here is just one of the many links

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=&pagenumber=2

http://world2003.hyperboards.com

there are countless others , some even in french and german

have a great day