Help Siro pick a graphics card

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 17:07

1. browse the different vga cards list.
2. recommend Siro something for less than 700 shekels

siro's requirements:
1. good 2D (hi res. no jumpy movies)
2. good 3D (for RON and such)
3. able to work with pentium II 400

4. will not cause much trouble or conflicts (if you know something is inherently evil, recommend against it)

PS: I have an AGP slot (doesn't that sound kinky?

)

EDIT : I had some difficulties with the striking effect. But I left an interesting effect for you to enjoy

I don't know the differences between different companies, nor do I know the difference between radeon and geforce, nor do I know what geforce MX is better...

So if you have the will power - please elaborate

The list:
(crossed, means too expensive)

Chaintech
GF 2 MX400 32MB - 150 NIS
GF 4 MX440 DDR 64MB,TV - 240 NIS
GF 4 MX440 DDR 128MB,TV - 310 NIS
GF FX5200 128MB AGPx8,TV,DVI - 450 NIS
~~GF FX5600 256MB AGPx8,TV,DVI - 1090 NIS~~
~~GF FX5200 Ultra 128MB AGPx8,TV,DVI - 1230 NIS~~

ASUS
V9180 GF4 MX440 64MB,TV,AGPx8 - 380 NIS
~~V9280 Ti4200 64MB,TV,DVI,AGPx8 - 770 NIS~~
~~V9280 Ti4200 128MB,TV,DVI,AGPx8 - 880 NIS~~
V9520 FX5200 64MB,TV - 430 NIS
V9520 FX5200 128MB,TV - 520 NIS
~~V9560 FX5600 128MB,TV,DVI - 1070 NIS~~
~~V9900 FX5800 128MB,TV,DVI - 2050 NIS~~

Leadtek
GF 4 MX440SE DDR 64MB,TV - 260 NIS
GF 4 MX440 DDR 64MB,TV +VIVO - 320 NIS
GF 4 MX460 DDR 64MB,TV +VIVO - 350 NIS
~~GF 4 Ti4200 128MB,DVI,vivo - 830 NIS~~
GF FX5200 64MB AGPx8,TV - 460 NIS
GF FX5200 128MB AGPx8,TV - 590 NIS
~~GF FX5600 128MB AGPx8,VIVO - 1070 NIS~~
~~GF FX5600 256MB AGPx8,VIVO - 1230 NIS~~
~~FX5600 Ultra 128MB AGPx8,VIVO - 1350 NIS~~

TYAN
~~Techayon G9700Pro 128Mb,TV,DVI - 1830 NIS~~

Sapphir (ATI)
RADEON 9100 TV,DVI 64MB - 380 NIS
RADEON 9100 TV,DVI 128MB - 460 NIS
RADEON 9200 TV,DVI 64MB - 440 NIS
RADEON 9200 TV,DVI 128MB - 500 NIS

ATI
~~RADEON 9500Pro TV,DVI 128MB - 1190 NIS~~
~~RADEON 9600Pro TV,DVI 128MB - 1120 NIS~~
~~RADEON 9800Pro TV,DVI 128MB - 2430 NIS~~

MSI
GF 4 Ti4200 128MB AGPx8,DVI - 720 NIS
~~GF 4 Ti4200 128MB AGPx8,DVI,vivo - 790 NIS~~
~~GF 4 Ti4800SE 128MB AGPx8,DVI,vivo - 990 NIS~~

ABIT
GF FX5200 128MB AGPx8,TV - 490 NIS
GF 4 Ti4200 64MB TV - 650 NIS
~~GF FX5600 256MB AGPx8,TV,DVI - 1080 NIS~~
~~GF FX5800 128MB AGPx8,TV,DVI - 2550 NIS~~

Gainward
GF FX5200 64MB AGPx8,TV - 450 NIS
~~GF FX5600 256MB AGPx8,TV,DVI - 1180 NIS~~

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 18:06

technophiles? where art thou?

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 18:18

The site design is downright horrible. Ugh.

Below 700 shekels, I'd think either the Radeon 9100 (around 400 shekels) or the GeForce4 Ti 4200 with 64MB of memory (640 shekels iirc) would be good choices. They aren't equivalent cards, the Ti 4200 is better, but all the other Radeon cards are a bit too expensive. So I think in your situation I'd take the Ti 4200. NVidia drivers are said to be better (easier, less problems) than the ATi ones, but I have no personal experience and the ATi drivers are supposedly getting better.

Of course, if you have a P2 400, the Ti 4200 won't necessarily help you. What sort of a system do you have altogether? You do have an AGP slot to put the card in?

Oh and MX's aren't better. I think I read somewhere that a GeForce4 MX equals a 'regular' GeForce2 in some respects. Oh and card manufacturers (Leadtek, Sapphire etc.) should be of no consequence, the chips are pretty identical. The quality of the memory might vary but that's of importance mainly to overclockers.

(I have no deeper knowledge of graphics cards but I've read a lot of threads like this lately)

reds4ever · July 9, 2003, 18:27

On a PII 400 anything better than a GeForce 2 is a waste of time IMO

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 18:29

Quote:

On a PII 400 anything better than a GeForce 2 is a waste of time IMO

Yeah, I'd rather save for an entirely new inexpensive-ish system. If he has an integrated video card to top it off, he'd need a PCI card which are also a waste of time, and money.

BustaMike · July 9, 2003, 18:32

TI 4200 is a nice card, but reds is right. On a PII, you won't really notice anything past an old TNT2 card. I dunno about there, but here Athlon 2600+ boards and processors are less than $100, and a stick of 512 runs around $50-$60.

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 18:37

Quote:

Athlon 2600+ boards and processors are less than $100, and a stick of 512 runs around $50-$60.

Even a 1700+ (60 euros here) with 256 megs (40 euros) would be more than enough compared to a P2. Add a motherboard (~90 euros), use your old case and drives, get a new power source (300 or 350W, ~60 euros?), a cooler for the processor (~15 euros), and you have a decent computer.

I can understand Siro if he simply can't afford more than 700 shekels though. I've been there. I'm sorry but a new graphics card won't do it.

Skanky Burns · July 9, 2003, 18:46

A good rule of thumb is to aviod any graphics cards with MX in their name.

spiritof1202 · July 9, 2003, 19:22

Sounds like you don't have enough to properly update your system and upgrading to something already a generation old isn't a wonderful feeling.

AMD are no longer the price performance wonder they once were. The XP2600 isn't great price/performance value.

The sweet spot right now is a P4 2.6C on an Abit IS-7 with a Radeon 9500 (pro? i can't recall.)

hope this helps... although I understand if you can't afford it you can't afford it...

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 19:44

Quote:

You do have an AGP slot to put the card in?

Of course

I will upgrade to a Pentium 4 some time later this year.

But meanwhile, I can't afford a more expensive graphics card.

700 is the top limit. up to 500 would be preferable.

tinyp3nis · July 9, 2003, 19:51

Quote:

Originally posted by spiritof1202
Sounds like you don't have enough to properly update your system and upgrading to something already a generation old isn't a wonderful feeling.

AMD are no longer the price performance wonder they once were. The XP2600 isn't great price/performance value.

The sweet spot right now is a P4 2.6C on an Abit IS-7 with a Radeon 9500 (pro? i can't recall.)

hope this helps... although I understand if you can't afford it you can't afford it...

Actually 2600+ is. Why? Because intel don't give you anything good for 100 $ / €.
If your going to go for 200 $ / € + priced CPU then consider p4's

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 20:15

Quote:

I will upgrade to a Pentium 4 some time later this year.

But meanwhile, I can't afford a more expensive graphics card.

700 is the top limit. up to 500 would be preferable.

Hmm... by upgrading to P4 you mean getting a new motherboard, a new processor and new memory right? What are you going to do with a new graphics card before that? Their prices might drop and you'd be better off buying the card along with your main upgrade than getting it now for no gain.

Quote:

If your going to go for 200 $ / € + priced CPU then consider p4's

Yeah, if you have the money, go for Pentium 4 by all means, but on the "budget" prices the Celeron's a joke compared to Athlon XPs. After 2600+ though the processors get much more expensive compared to the speed.

Panag · July 9, 2003, 20:22

hi ,

héy , get an amd

and wait a bit longer , some of those expensive one shall drop the prize , ...... ( some shall be around nis 750 , the ones that are now around nis 1050 )

have a nice early morning

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 20:24

ok i don't need advice on upgrading motherboard and stuff.

I got my dad to pay for a new graphics card, and that is what I'm going to buy now.

Panag · July 9, 2003, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
ok i don't need advice on upgrading motherboard and stuff.

I got my dad to pay for a new graphics card, and that is what I'm going to buy now.

hi ,

*now* , ......

how on earth did you do that , ......

allas , buy an amd

well good luc kwith it

have a nice day

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 20:28

I really need a new card. I have an old old 8 MB MAtrox Millenium G200 AGP....

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 20:29

Quote:

ok i don't need advice on upgrading motherboard and stuff.

Good, good, I was just worried that you were thinking that you could put a P4 on a P2 motherboard.

Under 500, I'd say Radeon 9100. Between 128 and 64 megs it's a bit tricky, 128MB would be good if you don't intend to upgrade from that for quite a while, 64 megs if you are going to get a newer 128 meg card like a R9700 in the approximate future, i.e. 2004 - 2005.

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 20:33

geForce is considered all that in Israel.

Why would you recommend Radeon?

And by which manufacturer?

My dad seems to think it's a big difference. (he works as an R&D engineer in a high tech company, and his office neighbour is the system and admin who's also responsible for the hardware)

My dad is clueless though as to the effects of different 2D and 3D thingies

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 20:35

Quote:

Good, good, I was just worried that you were thinking that you could put a P4 on a P2 motherboard.

I was until my dad slapped some sense into me

He used to know more about PC hardware, but not since he's been busy in R&D.

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 20:46

Quote:

Why would you recommend Radeon?

Of the listed cards, that's the one below 500 shekels and is still a pretty decent piece of work. It was originally the 8500 but the 9000 was so slow that they renamed it to 9100, but I digress. Of the same price range, I suppose the GF FX 5200 might be a possibility, but what I've heard from the FX cards hasn't been too encouraging. I'm getting a R9100 at 64MB myself in a few weeks. If I had more money I'd probably get a GF Ti 4200.

Quote:

And by which manufacturer?

Doesn't really matter, Radeon chips are manufactured by only two or three different companies and the differences are not big and meaningful usually only to overclockers. Btw, 9100 Limited Edition is a bit slower than the 'plain' 9100. The Sapphire cards listed ought to be good.

Quote:

I was until my dad slapped some sense into me

Way to go Siro's dad! My dad tries to suggest me all these retail computers that cost a fortune and have stuff like an integrated modem and hoots of programs we won't need... I myself didn't know lots about modern hardware until last January when I started to do research for an upgrade.

Panag · July 9, 2003, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
geForce is considered all that in Israel.

Why would you recommend Radeon?

And by which manufacturer?

My dad seems to think it's a big difference. (he works as an R&D engineer in a high tech company, and his office neighbour is the system and admin who's also responsible for the hardware)

My dad is clueless though as to the effects of different 2D and 3D thingies

hi ,

go for geforce , its also a question about warranty and all , ....

manuf ,

, check some internet sites in Israel , stumbled a couple weeks ago on a site that resells items from insurance fraud and such , with limited warranty , but good

, should be in the "index"

have a nice morning

Sirotnikov · July 9, 2003, 21:07

Kass - can you suggest a good site to start learning?

Panag - what's the "index" ?

General Ludd · July 9, 2003, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Kass - can you suggest a good site to start learning?

You're already there.

Just go to the manufacturer sites then read and compare the different models, when you come across a feature that you do not know, ask apolyton. That's what I always do.

Kassiopeia · July 9, 2003, 21:38

Quote:

can you suggest a good site to start learning?

Mostly I've been reading what the users and buyers think, i.e. computer hardware related forums (Finnish ones mostly), but those always require a certain filter since there are "ATi Fanatics" and "NVidiots" and whoever who are far from objective. A good and pretty neutral source would be http://www.tomshardware.com .

Here for instance are the cards mentioned here in a test on high-end machines. The Ti 4200 is quite decent, and the R9100 isn't too shoddy either considering the difference in price. Tests aren't the set word of god though and you will find someone able to dispute any results, whether they have a point or not is tough to decide if you don't know much about the fundamentals (like me). This is why I try to read lots of opinions and strike a balance between them.

Edan · July 9, 2003, 22:14

I've had a number of ATI cards. In my experience, ATIs cards tend to be pretty good, but their drivers and software usually leaves a lot to be desired (although they have gotten better, IMO).

Urban Ranger · July 10, 2003, 01:55

Are any of the ATI cards DirectX 9 ones?

FrostyBoy · July 10, 2003, 02:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
A good rule of thumb is to aviod any graphics cards with MX in their name.

What's wrong with MX cards? I've got a Geforce 2 MX, I've had it for 2 years, not one problem from it at all. Come to think of it, that's the only piece of hardware I have had that has actually never caused a problem.