Conquest Info at Gamespot - Page 2

Elden · July 10, 2003, 09:42

This article made me lose interest in Conquests

- Some of the new features (E.G. Natural Disasters) will only be in some of the scenarios

- There are only seven new civs (not eight)

fred · July 10, 2003, 09:53

You will be able to likely toggle some of the natural affects.

Aswell there is plenty more then 7 civs, just 7 civs to be added to the normal game.

And if all that doesn't suit you, the game will be more easily modified so that you can make a game that better suits how you want to play it.

This is the expansion PTW should have been (and sorta discussed early in PTW's development).

CrONoS · July 10, 2003, 10:06

Hi,
Does anybody heard about change made to the A.I. for Conquest?

Thanks,

Sheik · July 10, 2003, 10:08

This is great. Are we going to be able to give names to the terrain features? why is one of the tiles in the screen called Cedars or Lebanon? I also hope that Nuke power will be changable with the editor.

Is this too good to be true?

FrustratedPoet · July 10, 2003, 10:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheik
This is great. Are we going to be able to give names to the terrain features? why is one of the tiles in the screen called Cedars or Lebanon?

Is this too good to be true?

It looks like a new terrain tile (a new type of forest) created specifically for a scenario.

That's not the same thing as being able to name terrain features, but it's still good.

I hope we get the ability to name terrain features with text on the map (like in SMAC, only customisable). That'd be awesome.

History Guy · July 10, 2003, 11:37

It's called Cedars of Lebanon, I think, as a little in-joke. The Cedars of Lebanon, as refered to in the Bible ("the Lord's voice shatters the Cedars of Lebanon"), were the primary trade staple of the Phoenicians, especially those at Byblos and Tyre. Cedar wood was a valuable commodity, and the trade of cedar wood made the Phoenicians rich. It seems that in the scenario, cedars can be harvested as trade items for the people who control Lebanon (Phoenicia).

Turk Man · July 10, 2003, 12:17

this is great!

Solver · July 10, 2003, 12:27

Good stuff! After the pretty much disappoitning PTW, this looks like something.

I was absolutely sure there would be new traits in PTW, yet there were not... and apparently we are getting some decent scenarios. Good stuff.

Solver · July 10, 2003, 12:30

And for the record, anyone saw WW2 alliance screen? Can there be anything more stupid than a picture of Elizabeth with title "Prime Minister Churchill", and right near it Abe Lincoln titled "President Roosvelt".

History Guy · July 10, 2003, 12:38

How about Queen Wilhelmina?

However, I sincerely doubt seeing leaderheads for the scenario civs. Nine to one against, I think.

Brundlefly · July 10, 2003, 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip

P.S. Agricultural and Seafaring rock.

I don't know.. Seems like they might make sense as a third characteristic for a civ ( in addition to selecting two of the others already available). I wouldn't pick one of these qualities instead of industrious or militaristic, though. When was the last time in history a civ with one of these characterisitics was considered dominant because of these qualities - for agricultural (never?) for seafaring (18th century?) These aren't characterisitcs that will help you win the game. Don't all civs start out as agricultural civs until they fashion weapons to kill animals and become hunter-gatherers? If you are a seafaring civ isn't it because you have no choice because you are surrounded by water?

Also, jade is a new resource. I thought we already had 'gems'..

Solver · July 10, 2003, 12:40

Right you are... but what about at least non-animated heads? Honestly, I'd rather talk to a non-animated Churchill than fully animated Elizabeth thinking she's Churchill.

FrustratedPoet · July 10, 2003, 12:41

Those are obviously just placeholder graphics Solver. I don't think it really matters at this stage.

GodKing · July 10, 2003, 12:42

Soundign better and better with each new bit of info.

Agriculture and seafaring - guess that they did hear us.

Elden · July 10, 2003, 12:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver
And for the record, anyone saw WW2 alliance screen? Can there be anything more stupid than a picture of Elizabeth with title "Prime Minister Churchill", and right near it Abe Lincoln titled "President Roosvelt".

On CFC Tavis (A Firaxian) said "the WWII leaderheads will be nicely rendered flags"

I think that sucks btw.

Solver · July 10, 2003, 12:55

Quote:

Those are obviously just placeholder graphics Solver. I don't think it really matters at this stage.

That's not so obvious to me. In fact, by the beta version all placeholders need to be replaced by actual graphics.

FrustratedPoet · July 10, 2003, 13:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver
In fact, by the beta version all placeholders need to be replaced by actual graphics.

Says who?

Kaos XIII · July 10, 2003, 13:53

I'm still confused as to what's in the scenarios and what's in the core game. Also, can the new tweaks in the scenarios, be put in the core game, via the mod.

Solver · July 10, 2003, 13:53

Says a person who knows the way software is made. There may surely be changes before the final version... but replacing placeholders with actual graphics is one of the things for beta.

Myrddin · July 10, 2003, 14:00

OK, so we get

2 new difficulty levels
2 new government types (facism and feudalism)
2 new civilisation traits agricultural and sea-faring (so all civs will be re-worked)
7 new civs
revisions to existing unique units
non-combat generated great leaders
locked alliances

Also the comment about controlling enough of the stone resource to build wonders implies, either that the resources deplete with wonder building, or that the number of resources you control of a certain type becomes a factor.

Many of the things higlighted for scenarios will hopefully also get into the editor, which will eventually make it very powerful; and remember

Firaxis has a history of only releasing information on what they will deliver, which means that there may be more goodies to come

Alex · July 10, 2003, 14:02

Hm, I'm still like this about this expansion:

Things I like:

- Fascism is back

- Scientific Great Leaders

- Volcanoes (but only if they are available in the main game too, not just in scenarios)
- The scenarios seem to be pretty detailed and full of interesting twists with regards to the main game
- We'll probably have a beefier editor (I'm not thinking about me, I rarely play with the editor, but it will be great for the community)

Things I don't like:

- Pollution graphics representing lava from volcanoes -- don't be lazy, guys... (if these are just placeholder art, then fine)
- These two new civ traits (Agricultural and Seafaring) will probably not be incorporated into the civs as a 3rd option (meaning that every civ could have 3 traits), but they will probably be two more options in the pool from where the two traits are chosen for every civ. I don't like this.

All in all, it seems interesting.

Jon Shafer · July 10, 2003, 14:47

Quote:

Originally posted by WarpStorm
The Conquests scenarios are being made using the included Conquests editor.

Note: It's hard to put features in scenarios that don't exist in the real game if you can't do it with the editor.

Ahem.

Falconius · July 10, 2003, 15:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Feephi
Don't all civs start out as agricultural civs until they fashion weapons to kill animals and become hunter-gatherers?

No, you have that backwards. We started out as hunter-gatherers and then realized that we could keep the animals in pens and breed them instead of following the herds. This was the Agricultural Revolution. It enabled us to stay in one place which led to the growth of cities and, hence, civilization!

Jeff_ATARI · July 10, 2003, 16:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver

Quote:

Those are obviously just placeholder graphics Solver. I don't think it really matters at this stage.

That's not so obvious to me. In fact, by the beta version all placeholders need to be replaced by actual graphics.

Chiming in here...

In this case they are placeholders. One man's beta is another man's alpha. By programmer's standards, the beta testers are "pre-beta" testers because the versions they have are not feature complete. In this case it's just the artwork that has to catch up.

But what do I know, I'm in marketing.

Best,
Jeff Foley
Atari

Sheik · July 10, 2003, 16:38

Quote:

The Cedars of Lebanon, as refered to in the Bible ("the Lord's voice shatters the Cedars of Lebanon"), were the primary trade staple of the Phoenicians, especially those at Byblos and Tyre.

Thanks for the info. That is cool that they are thinking of that stuff and including it.

Still naming areas of the map would help add depth to scenarios.

Conquests is looking great. And it is nice to see a guy from Atari here.

Jon Shafer · July 10, 2003, 16:44

For those complaining about the leaderheads for the scenarios...

Keep in mind that 8 leaderheads for PTW kept the artists busy. There will be 8 more in C3C (not all of which are done yet) in addition to all the scenarios. Not quite possible to make a leaderhead for every leader in every scenario, especially when you consider there are a ton of civs in scenarios like Sengoku.

sabrewolf · July 10, 2003, 17:04

Quote:

2 new difficulty levels

uhm... i wonder how they're going to do this. give the AI 4 settlers and a build factor of 0.2 at "sid" level (btw: neat naming)?
better would be a better AI, but i think they'll only adapt the current AI to the new rules...

i'm still wondering what the new traits do and which starting tech they get.

Quote:

seafaring

- cheaper coastal buildings?
- cheaper naval units?
- early unique tech to build 1 transport, 1 movement ships from beginning (polynesia?)?
- most likely 1 MP more for naval units, faster promotion (like militaristic for land units)

everything not much of an advantage except on archipelagio maps with a lot of very small islands.
and it would be a complete waste for a civ that doesn't start near a coast! this trait seems underpowered to me...

so i hope this might come together with something else: advanced and better naval warfare: make ships more useful (stronger, faster, civ2-like impassable if fortified, block trade routes without having to cover every city-bordering coastal tile)...
maybe that would make the map generator offer a real archipelagio map style (currently they're just small continents)...

Quote:

agricultural

i guess this means 1 or 2 food more for cities. however, usually cities over size 7 come later in the game and by then irrigation and even railroad makes food a minor problem.
having 2 food more in the center tile would mean a way too big advantage in the early game. you could easily outrex any oponent. like if you've got an extra wheat...
i think that wouldn't be balanced at all.
faster irrigation? make farms?

sabrewolf · July 10, 2003, 17:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
For those complaining about the leaderheads for the scenarios...

Keep in mind that 8 leaderheads for PTW kept the artists busy. There will be 8 more in C3C (not all of which are done yet) in addition to all the scenarios. Not quite possible to make a leaderhead for every leader in every scenario, especially when you consider there are a ton of civs in scenarios like Sengoku.

yeah, imagine 18 different animated japanese leaderheads

i guess they'll stick to static pics (enough for me, i just need gameplay)

btw: only 7 new civs (totaling to the maximum of 31 civs)

Jon Shafer · July 10, 2003, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
and it would be a complete waste for a civ that doesn't start near a coast! this trait seems underpowered to me...

Don't even know what it does yet and calling it underpowered?

Have you no faith in us getting the game balanced?

Solver · July 10, 2003, 17:26

Quote:

In this case they are placeholders. One man's beta is another man's alpha. By programmer's standards, the beta testers are "pre-beta" testers because the versions they have are not feature complete. In this case it's just the artwork that has to catch up.

I thought that the games that are sent to beta testers are feauture complete. At least that was the case for me... everything in, except the matchmaking (duh), and some minor stuff, maybe.

Well, at any rate, let's hope those were really placeholders.