Here's an idea, Apple: Stop pissing people off - Page 2

monolith94 · July 10, 2003, 16:22

Apple doesn't want PC userss to have docks - that's one of their things to sway people over. Besides, a situation like this will only be publicized in hard-core techie places anyways... anybody who's mainstream will never even hear about this.

Asher · July 10, 2003, 16:54

But if only hard-core techie places care about this program, what good is it to stop them from using it, because they'd never buy a Mac in the first place?

MattH · July 10, 2003, 16:59

SOME techies buy macs....
Just cause you don't like them

Asher · July 10, 2003, 19:32

Quote:

Originally posted by MattH
SOME techies buy macs....
Just cause you don't like them

Hardcore techies who use a dock-clone on Windows do not buy Macs. I assure you.

MattH · July 10, 2003, 21:04

I use windows, linux, and mac on a constant basis. Windows I use for gaming and typing, linux for coding/tech and Mac for graphics (I'm switching the coding to mac...). While I have no personal preference, it says a lot that a windows user has copied the Mac UI design.

Asher · July 10, 2003, 21:09

There are also Windows feature clones/themes for Macs and Linux, what's your point?

The important point is Windows' Dock is not fundamentally stupid like Apple's, in that it doesn't maintain launched programs -- it simply launches them. That's all the dock is good at.

MattH · July 10, 2003, 21:19

How is the Apple dock stupid? The open programs have a little arrow underneath their names. You click on the icon an they move to the front...

Asher · July 10, 2003, 21:21

It makes multiple instances of a program clumsy and stupidly impossible.
It mixes programs-that-are-running with programs-that-are-not-running.
It is more difficult to see what, exactly, is running than it is in Windows.
It doesn't show any text to describe what the application is, and what's worse, it doesn't have an entry for all windows open, just applications. Slower to use.

It's a very stupid design like that.

MattH · July 10, 2003, 21:36

Yeah, the no windows design is rather dumb. It seems that it's being changed in Panther (took them long enough...). The icons are easy to recognize (how hard is it to tell Photoshop from IE or PageMaker- not very). I don't really find the arrows hard to see, but that's just a personal thing.

MichaeltheGreat · July 10, 2003, 21:46

Quote:

Originally posted by monolith94
Apple doesn't want PC userss to have docks - that's one of their things to sway people over. Besides, a situation like this will only be publicized in hard-core techie places anyways... anybody who's mainstream will never even hear about this.

Duh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh Doo-doo-de-do-de-doo. That wins the profound statement of the week award.

The people who will here of this are third party developers (including myself) who aren't enamored of only supporting specific platforms, but really aren't enamored of getting jacked around by somebody's giant lawyers looking for excuses to claim infringement.

What "anybody who's mainstream" will never hear about is the overall level of innovation and extended usability that active third party developers can provide, because a lot of those third party developers will say "**** it, why bother supporting this platform, because they're a bunch of *******s and there's no money in it"

Drake Tungsten · July 11, 2003, 01:20

Quote:

It's a very stupid design like that.

If the Dock has such a stupid design, then why are you so pissed off that Apple has killed the PC clone of it?

Mr. Nice Guy · July 11, 2003, 01:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Apple drives many of their 3rd party developers away with their first-party products. It's the exact same problem Nintendo has.

And neither of them seems bright enough to do anything about it.

Nintendo and Apple both have shrinking marketshare, so I wonder how long it'll take them to clue in this probably isn't the best route?

Nintendo's a pretty mean company too, remember when they sued Blockbuster to try to get them to stop renting games?

And your buddy M$ does the exact same thing, Asher, only they suck badly at it.

Apple has a new strategy for the early 21st Century: Make the Mac the perfect hub for consumer gadgets such as digital cameras, PDAs, cell phones, digital video cameras and MP3 Players, etc. It's called the digital hub strategy, and it only extends to consumer electronics. Get used to it. Apple has got to do something to become successful.

This has been going on for quite awhile, Asher. Where have you been?

Asher · July 11, 2003, 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

It's a very stupid design like that.

If the Dock has such a stupid design, then why are you so pissed off that Apple has killed the PC clone of it?

As I've already mentioned, the clone only cloned the functional part of the Dock -- the application launch stuff.

Quote:

And your buddy M$ does the exact same thing, Asher, only they suck badly at it.

Hmm. Why would you say they suck badly at it?
/me looks at marketshare figures.

Quote:

Apple has a new strategy for the early 21st Century: Make the Mac the perfect hub for consumer gadgets such as digital cameras, PDAs, cell phones, digital video cameras and MP3 Players, etc. It's called the digital hub strategy, and it only extends to consumer electronics. Get used to it. Apple has got to do something to become successful.

This has been going on for quite awhile, Asher. Where have you been?

Maybe I shouldn't tell you that Apple isn't the only one doing that.

Don't you remember the Windows XP commercials? It's the same thing.

Not to mention MS goes a lot further with the Media Centre Edition of Windows...

MattH · July 11, 2003, 09:48

They do? I don't see driver install disks for OSX

. I don't see DRM. I don't see a media player that monitors and sends data...

Asher · July 11, 2003, 10:09

Quote:

Originally posted by MattH
They do? I don't see driver install disks for OSX

.

Never bought a new video card for the Mac, have you?

Quote:

I don't see DRM.

Hello? iTunes store? DRM haven.

Quote:

I don't see a media player that monitors and sends data...

Yes, you do. How do you think iTunes gets track information?

Mr. Nice Guy · July 11, 2003, 13:20

nevermind. edit. edit.

Mr. Nice Guy · July 11, 2003, 13:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Hmm. Why would you say they suck badly at it?
* Asher looks at marketshare figures.

Apple's small market share has nothing to do with Mac OS X and everything to do with Motorola and the crappy hand they have dealt them. Because Moto cut it's R&D way back, that led to slower overpriced computers for Apple. Nowadays, Moto is looking to sell it's semiconductor business, which is the main thing that is dragging the company down right now. That's all about to change very soon. In fact, Apple's transistion to the G5 is already taking place. In the meantime, over the last few years Apple has done an outstanding job innovating Mac OS X and it's other software through the downturn (worthy of recognition in the archives of computer history)! This may not have led them to success, yet (no thanks to Moto), but it has kept them in business.

Quote:

Maybe I shouldn't tell you that Apple isn't the only one doing that.

Don't you remember the Windows XP commercials? It's the same thing.

Not to mention MS goes a lot further with the Media Centre Edition of Windows...

One thing about Mac OS X first-party applications such as iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, and iDVD is that they all can work together to accomplish many tasks. These applications, although separate, pretty much work as one. They are all virtually integrated into each other. Try that with Windows. This is what makes Mac OS X first-party applications so great! And Apple has already been doing this for years, so I can imagine that they are already way ahead of Windows XP Media Center Edition.

Mac OS X is a very straight-forward operating system. You may say that it lacks many configuration options, Asher, but that's all for good reason. The thing is, Asher, is that many people don't want to configure their computer. For one thing, it's hard to understand for most people. And for another, it can be very time consuming, especially for creative professionals who have much more important things to do. This I believe, is the same thing that M$ has been trying to tackle for so long, and sadly have been way behind Apple in this respect since the IBM PC became popular. I can understand why techies like yourself might have a lot of fun doing some configuring! But please don't think negatively about those who are the complete opposite.

The Mac is not just a whole 'nother computer, it's a whole 'nother culture, Asher. Things are done very different on the other side of things; I guess you could say it's just another way of thinking. And perhaps this other culture just doesn't fit your lifestyle or is beyond your understanding, Asher. That's all there is to it. Just be

about it and don't judge.

Mr. Nice Guy · July 11, 2003, 22:49

bump

Q Classic · July 11, 2003, 23:03

i find windows a very straight-forward operating system. i also find linux a very straight-forward operating system, once you learn its ropes.

the former hides a lot of its configuration options. the latter one lays them all out in front of you.

many of us techies love computers of all colors. we're bi-digital.
why exclude yourself from half of the computing world? all of them are lovely, beautiful, and far easier to deal with than humans.

Mr. Nice Guy · July 11, 2003, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
why exclude yourself from half of the computing world? all of them are lovely, beautiful, and far easier to deal with than humans.

It's all a matter of preference. Personally, I am sick and tired of the Wintel world. 'Nuff said!

Q Classic · July 11, 2003, 23:20

hm.. i'm not bisexual, but i would say then it's like swearing off boys. macs are more feminine (expensive, but prettier), so...

i still like computers of all types. server rooms are beautiful.

Agathon · July 11, 2003, 23:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
.
why exclude yourself from half of the computing world?

Bitter experience

Q Classic · July 11, 2003, 23:25

a pity. it's like swearing off girls simply because one broke your heart.

Agathon · July 11, 2003, 23:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
a pity. it's like swearing off girls simply because one broke your heart.

If she'd broken your heart 3 or 4 times a day for a month I think you'd have had enough.

TCO · July 11, 2003, 23:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Cloud9

Apple's small market share has nothing to do with Mac OS X and everything to do with Motorola and the crappy hand they have dealt them. Because Moto cut it's R&D way back, that led to slower overpriced computers for Apple. Nowadays, Moto is looking to sell it's semiconductor business, which is the main thing that is dragging the company down right now. That's all about to change very soon. In fact, Apple's transistion to the G5 is already taking place. In the meantime, over the last few years Apple has done an outstanding job innovating Mac OS X and it's other software through the downturn (worthy of recognition in the archives of computer history)! This may not have led them to success, yet (no thanks to Moto), but it has kept them in business.

One thing about Mac OS X first-party applications such as iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, and iDVD is that they all can work together to accomplish many tasks. These applications, although separate, pretty much work as one. They are all virtually integrated into each other. Try that with Windows. This is what makes Mac OS X first-party applications so great! And Apple has already been doing this for years, so I can imagine that they are already way ahead of Windows XP Media Center Edition.

Mac OS X is a very straight-forward operating system. You may say that it lacks many configuration options, Asher, but that's all for good reason. The thing is, Asher, is that many people don't want to configure their computer. For one thing, it's hard to understand for most people. And for another, it can be very time consuming, especially for creative professionals who have much more important things to do. This I believe, is the same thing that M$ has been trying to tackle for so long, and sadly have been way behind Apple in this respect since the IBM PC became popular. I can understand why techies like yourself might have a lot of fun doing some configuring! But please don't think negatively about those who are the complete opposite.

The Mac is not just a whole 'nother computer, it's a whole 'nother culture, Asher. Things are done very different on the other side of things; I guess you could say it's just another way of thinking. And perhaps this other culture just doesn't fit your lifestyle or is beyond your understanding, Asher. That's all there is to it. Just be

about it and don't judge.

This is like listening to people who say that EU has an equivalent military to the US cause they might one day buy some better crap.

Q Classic · July 11, 2003, 23:35

jezebel (my main wintel machine) is beautifully steady, hasn't crashed on me as long as i can remember, suffers no slow days, and purrs, always turned on, in my room.

so i can safely say that i don't quite understand why wintels break everyone else hearts so often.

Urban Ranger · July 11, 2003, 23:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Apple drives many of their 3rd party developers away with their first-party products. It's the exact same problem Nintendo has.

Am I the only one who found this statement ironic when it came from a MS fanboy?

* Meanwhile, MSFT destroys more third party developers by ~~including~~integrating more "features" into Windows.

Q Classic · July 11, 2003, 23:40

Apple does that very same thing, UR...

Agathon · July 11, 2003, 23:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
jezebel (my main wintel machine) is beautifully steady, hasn't crashed on me as long as i can remember, suffers no slow days, and purrs, always turned on, in my room.

so i can safely say that i don't quite understand why wintels break everyone else hearts so often.

Actually this was back in the days of Windows 95. I actually really liked 3.1 which I ran for years on my old 386. The people at work gave me a Wintel to write some coursebooks on and it was a nightmare. So they gave me a Powermac to replace it. I found that the OS suited me a lot better than Windows and it rarely froze (now it never does).

No Macintosh has ever mangled or lost my data, cost me money or time, done strange things to the format of my documents, or caused me to wait for an hour on a helpdesk line. So why change?

Q Classic · July 11, 2003, 23:41

besides, the risk for third party developers is greater in the mac world. since the market share is smaller, there's a smaller pool to make money from. when apple takes your product and integrates it, poof, you're out.

with windows, you at least have a fighting chance. maybe not much of one, but it's not a guaranteed kill. look at symantec and it's disk software... or roxio and nero and their cd software...