Hong Kong: Is Democracy taking hold in China? - Page 2

Frozzy · July 13, 2003, 22:17

Hey, I'm pretty far from communist.

I'm right-wing on economic issues, and on home affairs, but the fact I'm a pacifist brings me back to a centrist

Kidicious · July 13, 2003, 22:20

In otherwords, he's not a fascist like you.

Giancarlo · July 13, 2003, 22:32

Well at least I am not a illogical communist.

Giancarlo · July 13, 2003, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Kidicious
What does that mean in your sig about leadership in the US?

It means if you Bush bash you are arrogant.

Nubclear · July 13, 2003, 23:07

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you damned idiot?

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your arrogant existence

Your just jealous come I'm right and you aren't. Nya nya nya nya nya

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Oh here comes kiddo... the little "know-it-all" who calls himself a communist...

Communism is much better than fa....Excuse me, "Authoritarian Nationalism"

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Shut up, commie trash.

Wow, people are REALLY trolling Fez today

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Well at least I am not a illogical communist.

No. Your an illogical facist

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It means if you Bush bash you are arrogant.

Fezzies overuse of the word "arrogent" leads me to believe he just learned the word

Sava · July 14, 2003, 00:28

hahaha Fez... I love how you can come into a Pro-Democracy thread for China and start trolling...

get a clue!

DinoDoc · July 14, 2003, 00:30

He wasn't the first to do it. Hi Zulu. But he was the worst, I'll grant you that.

Sikander · July 14, 2003, 00:35

Fezzed!

Sava · July 14, 2003, 00:35

VIVA FEZ!

Giancarlo · July 14, 2003, 01:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Your just jealous come I'm right and you aren't. Nya nya nya nya nya

No, actually I am right and you are an @$$.

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Communism is much better than fa....Excuse me, "Authoritarian Nationalism"

Actually no.

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No. Your an illogical facist

All communists are idiots. It is as simple as 2+2=4.

But according to you 2+2=5.

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Fezzies overuse of the word "arrogent" leads me to believe he just learned the word

Arrogant. Learn how to spell num nuts.

Giancarlo · July 14, 2003, 01:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
hahaha Fez... I love how you can come into a Pro-Democracy thread for China and start trolling...

get a clue!

I am also here to troll you about those two damn awful links you have in your signature. The democraticunderground bans anyone who does not believe in what they believe in... it is runned by a group of jackasses.

Shi Huangdi · July 14, 2003, 01:22

"Arrogant. Learn how to spell num nuts."

Don't you mean numb nuts?

Giancarlo · July 14, 2003, 01:24

**** off.

Nubclear · July 14, 2003, 01:43

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No, actually I am right and you are an @$$.

Often times children will declare they are the correct ones, and then they will proceed to throw out an insult in order to "prove" they are correct

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Actually no.

Yeah, I mean...Why should the people be free?

Detuschland Uber Alles!

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All communists are idiots.

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No, actually I am right and you are an @$$.

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"I won't consider alternative viewpoints. I do listen but I won't consider them

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Arrogant. Learn how to spell num nuts.

As Shi said: Don't you mean numb?

But you are evading my original statement

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I am also here to troll

He came to troll, and ended up being trolled

What a sad fate for our little Fezzie

Giancarlo · July 14, 2003, 01:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Often times children will declare they are the correct ones, and then they will proceed to throw out an insult in order to "prove" they are correct

You should change your name ot Assadar5000.

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Yeah, I mean...Why should the people be free?

You don't ****ing care for freedom.

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As Shi said: Don't you mean numb?

But you are evading my original statement

**** off.

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He came to troll, and ended up being trolled

What a sad fate for our little Fezzie

You little chicken ****, if you can't take the heat get the hell out.

Ming · July 14, 2003, 01:48

Fez... you are one post from another long restriction.

AND EVERYBODY ELSE... CHILL AS WELL.

The next personal insult earns a restriction.

Shi Huangdi · July 14, 2003, 01:48

Quote:

Sava, do you really hate America this much?

No, Sava doesn't hate America. He just has a very different vision of America and what he wants for it. Sava feels the current administration is hurting America, therefore he opposes it. I respectfully disagree with him.

Fez, it is you who came onto this thread acting like an "@$$". You came onto this thread doing nothing but insulting people and being a jerk. You should practice better manners.

Nubclear · July 14, 2003, 01:50

Mingified

Giancarlo · July 14, 2003, 01:53

Fine.

Shi, I am 18... so manners come later.

mindseye · July 14, 2003, 03:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
The rest of the country is still under quite a bit of opression, and there is no sign of that breaking especially under Hu (Hu? Hu!) Jintao.

Do you have even the slightest idea what you are talking about?

Were you asleep during Hu's handling of the SARS crisis? He's the one who turned it around, canned the Mayor of Beijing and the Health Minister, and made things public. The press has never been more candid than under Hu.

Some more recent examples (from the Washington Post):

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China to Open Field in Local Elections
Decision to Allow Multiple Candidates Comes During Debate Over Need for Reform

BEIJING, June 12 -- President Hu Jintao is poised to announce limited but significant political reforms that would permit for the first time more than one candidate to compete for office in local legislatures, political sources said today.
(...)
Hu and Premier Wen Jiabao, both of whom came to power on March 19, have encouraged a relative openness since Health Minister Zhang Wenkang and Beijing's mayor, Meng Xuenong, were sacked on April 20 for mishandling the response to epidemic, Chinese sources said. The leaders have used the greater openness as leverage in their struggle for power with former president Jiang Zemin, the sources said, while Jiang has sought to rein in the media to keep his authority intact. Jiang retains a power base from his position as chairman of the Central Military Commission.

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China Voids Rule On Jailing Vagrants
Policy Blamed for Hundreds of Deaths

BEIJING, June 18 -- The government today abolished a 20-year-old vagrancy regulation that human rights organizations said had allowed police to imprison people at will, leading to numerous detentions and the deaths of hundreds of detainees.

Elimination of the regulation at a meeting of the State Council, chaired by Premier Wen Jiabao, was the latest example of small but significant political changes instituted by Wen and President Hu Jintao since they took power in mid-March. As the government openly discussed other possible steps toward limited political reform, an influential Communist Party magazine ran an article this week calling for more democracy within the party.

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Chinese Leader Solidifies Power
Defying Predictions, President Hu Raises Hopes for Change

Hu's rise has been so smooth that it has led some intellectuals in Beijing to hope that he will push significant political reforms of the communist system. He has backed experiments in limited political change, the first such experimentation in years. He has established a group to revise the constitution, possibly to protect private property. In May, he became the first Chinese leader to attend a meeting of the Group of Eight industrial countries, shelving his predecessors' contention that it was a "rich man's club" and that China's interests lay solidly within the developing world. And, despite a recent crackdown on the tightly controlled media, Hu has directed propaganda chiefs to prepare the media for greater foreign investment and told them to dismantle the antiquated system of publishing permits, sources close to the government said. "There are huge expectations of Hu," Shi said, "for political reform, economic reform and foreign policy reform."

Hu is interested not in creating a democracy, but in "improving the efficiency of the state," Shi said. Nonetheless, the analysts said, Hu's rise has helped broaden the terms of political discourse here. For the first time in years, normally conservative Communist Party publications are writing about the need for significant political openness. Hu is expected to float several plans for limited political restructuring in a speech on Tuesday marking the 82nd anniversary of the Communist Party.

Zevico · July 14, 2003, 07:13

Fez, calm down. Stop being so aggressive. It only makes them want to annoy you further.
And mindseye, even if he were another Kruschev, it would still mean he will kill and torture thousands per year. Falung Gong is still an 'evil cult' for him, as are elections, or just about anything resembling free speech.

Q Classic · July 14, 2003, 09:28

Hu Jintao is more along the path that Deng and Jiang set China on, but he's no Gorbachev.

he acted that way during the SARS crisis because there was no other way to act; he still maintains a fairly solid grip on power.

as for democracy taking root in china... the younger generation desires more liberty, but until they manage to gain enough power (i.e., control the politburo/ccp), we won't see any meaningful change, and if they're in the party, we won't see any meaningful change.

then again, democracy has never been that great in asia: look at the three trumpted examples: japan's essentially been a one-party (but capitalist and democratic!) state, skorea's only been a democracy since 1987 and has a bad habit of electing presidents it hates and then jailing them and their families after they're out of office, and taiwan wasn't a democracy until recently--and now it's not really even that independent.

it'll be a long while before democracy truly begins in asia. there are still lots of leftover confucian and other east asian philosophies that dominate and give asian democracy, as it stands, its unique flavor.

Tingkai · July 14, 2003, 09:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
I'm hearing reports that China is giving in to the protestors and will not disrupt the Democratic process.

There is no democracy in Hong Kong. We are ruled by egotistical, patronising civil servants and an indecisive fool appointed by Beijing. The only way we can have a say in how things are done is by getting 500,000 people to protest. That's not democracy.

Q Classic · July 14, 2003, 09:28

oh, and fez: i'll point you directly to my sig:

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Word of advice: Questioning the leadership of a country, the US in this case in the face of national peril is purely an arrogant thing to do.

in response:

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To announce there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or anyone else, but it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about anyone else. --Republican President Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

Sava · July 14, 2003, 11:36

good post Tingkai, as I explained... my knowledge of the political situation in China/Hong Kong is limited. Thank you for enlightening the situation and bringing fact to this thread. It has been invaded by threadjacking, trolling, and insulting elements!

Tingkai: What could be done to make Hong Kong more Democratic?

Q Cubed: Good post

Teddy loves freedom and Democracy... others don't.

Giancarlo · July 14, 2003, 14:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
oh, and fez: i'll point you directly to my sig:

Quote:

Word of advice: Questioning the leadership of a country, the US in this case in the face of national peril is purely an arrogant thing to do.

in response:

Quote:

To announce there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or anyone else, but it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about anyone else. --Republican President Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

I have to disagree with Roosevelt on that one.