Wonders

[iamlod]

What wonders do people like to use for which nations?

Do you pick wonders that help to increase your nations advantages or build those that help to make up for it's weaknesses?

-Lod

[Swissy]

I generaly build wonders that will help me win in the end. Colossus, Versailles, and Statue of Liberty will usually give me enough offensive punch to take out an opponent in modern era. Because in the end its a matter of having the most troops, in the best health and with the most upto date equipement that wins.

[Skanky Burns]

I generally build all the wonders I can. In free games, I disable wonder wins so I can build them all and still be in the game (as opposed to being kicked out for winning). In CTW games, I have only gotten the chance to build a wonder once.

[Signa]

*=star (bad1-5good)

Palace Of Versailles ****
Really good, but the only problem I have is that metal is hard to come by and by the time I can get this I already have a few wonders so this costs like 1200f-1200w so I usually don't get it. Good, really good if your French because your units really heal, but $ is a big issue.

Terra Cotta Army *****
Some dislike this thing because they say just get a economic wonder and build an army. I say get this. Frees up so micro time so you can command better. On Tougher and Toughest game's I always get this really early on and it always saves me; when that enemy comes down hard with a massive army I can always overpower and hold out because of the free infantry. I remember one game where I got 64 free units. Worth it, definately.

Temple Of The Giant Jaguar In Tika **
This one's ok, but not that great. Kinda expensive if you already got the older wonders. Really nice on maps like Great Sahara for the wood but most maps you'll be fine on wood with enough Woodcutters and Lumber Mills. The other bonuses are ok but not that great. I usually only get this if I'm wood starved, need wonder points (for an early victory) or a late game wonder building spree.

Taj Mahal ***
Really nice for the jackpot of wonder points but the effects lack a little. The building HP is nothing to laugh about but you shouldn't be defending anyways. Might be a good idea to get it so other won't get it so you don't have to face a capital with 64,000HP... The extra wealth can help but I'm usually commerced limited anyways so I'll just get something else.

Superconduction Super Collider Lab (SSCL) **
The instant research is nice for the final techs (get world government and AI really fast and just hammer your way in till you win) but this usually comes to late to really matter in that way. 100-100 Buy-Sell research I really don't care about because by then I'm swimming in resources. Only really good for the large amount of wonder points.

Liberty Enlightening The World ***
Free upgrades is nice to get a minute or so of having a age ahead troops but not all that great. The less attrition really is mute, as attrition really stops mattering once Smelters are put up and large HP counts come into play and building a few Supply Wagons/Trucks is cheaper than this. The aircraft/missile bonuses can be good but not overwhelming enough to make me get this unless I need wonder points or someone else grabed Versaille.

Angkor Wat ***
Can be good but falls victim to the same factors that Temple Of Tikal does: the fact that I already usually have two or three wonders and this is expensive at a time where I like to start going campaigning. If I lack metal its great but if not forget it. The price break on troops is however interesting if I didn't end up with Terra Cotta. Overall: a must have if you missed the early game wonders, but if you got them, you can skip this.

Mercury/Gemini/Apollo Space Program ***
The reveal map isn't all that great, games move to fast for you to really use it, but it's not worthless. The price breaks arn't that great either... The only true use this has is if you get in a nuclear flame war, cause then this is a massive advantage. In a nuke war this gets a *****. The wonder points are nice however.

Great Pyramid Of Giza *****
The effects of the Pyramid are awesome, not so much that they are that great but that if you get them early on they last the whole game and they really add up. With the Egyptians the food amounts can be deadly for you can also give it to allies. If you can get this with Rhodes and TCA you have it won (even with 2/3 of them). The extra city is also deadly with the Bantu in 1v1 or >4 player games for you can have 4 cities when they have just 2 in the Classical Age (x2 of them) or 5 to 3 (x1.67 of them). That translates into land they can't have so later on that's more oil wells for you. Overall, only Helios beats this thing.

Porcelain Tower Of Nanjing *
One star on land maps (the dominate force right now). But if you are the Nubian, GET IT! Cheap markets + Porcelain Tower = So much money you win. On water maps it can also be a ****. But I avoid water maps because naval warfare comes down to micro and a computer on Tougher/est can do that better than you (or at least me...). But without those reasons, expensive waste of resources, go get something else.

The Kremlin *****
Awesome. But hard to get, way harded than the Collossus and Pyramids. The effects need just one word: awesome. If your Egypt, having this and Pyramids gives you NINE farms per city. Even with a few cities your economy won't suffer that bad with this things effects so you can defend yourself better not to metion the attrition and spy bonuses (both defense). If your gonna hole up and try to win a tech race or get a massive army saved up or get a Wonder victory, this is just a must.

La Tour Eiffel ***
If you need oil bad get this. If you need wonder points really bad get this. Really their isn't any other reason to throw this up. Really expensive so might not even be worth it in a lot of games being that you will have a few wonders so it would be really expensive. Overall, better things to do with my goods and money.

The Colossus Of Helios At Rhodes *****
Very nice. Very nice. Get it early and you will swim in gold. Gold -> buy resources -> get stuff faster -> win -> happy. Getting it early helps all the more. The pop cap of course is sweet to. I often bump upon the imaginary roof without this but you never will until Information with it. In the end of the game of course (if you can keep it standing) the pop cap with AI rules all as you can have 50 more units. 100 units versus 150 (estimated 100 citizens/et cetera) and guess who wins?
Overall, in my humble opinion, the best Wonder Of The World in Rise Of Nations.

The Flavian Amphitheater (aka Roman Colosseum) **
Good for turtlers early on but versus things like Pyramid/Colossus/TCA it doens't stake up. But can be very deadly if the Romans themselves get it and do Tower/Fort pushing like in the strategy showcased at RoN Universe.

Overall rankings:

1 Colossus
2 Pyramid
3 Terra Cotta
4 Kremlin
5 Versailles
6 Angkor Wat
7 Taj Mahal
8 State Of Lib
9 Eiffel Tower
10 Space Program
11 Temple Of Tikal
12 SSCL
13 Colossuem
14 Porcelian Tower (not Nubian or [water map => 5ish])

Questons? Comments?

[iamlod]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Signa
Gold -> buy resources -> get stuff faster -> win -> happy. [/QOUTE]

Thanks for spelling ot out for me

What nation do you play? (Or do you do random?)

[Signa]

I random when I don't care (which is 90%-95% of the time)... Depends on the map sometimes (ie Incans on Himalayas)... For games I'm gonna truly put forward effort (games where I would actaully care, like versus my "real life" friends) I'm usually Egypt or Korea, maybe Bantu... But then again all the nations are like my childrens... I LOVE THEM ALL! The only two I dislike for general purposes is Rome and Spain, but Rome is awesome for Fort/Tower push and dominates military affiars till the Enlightnentment (good rusher); and Spain is good at larger maps, 3v3/4v4 allied games, and water maps.

[tetley]

I'm surprised you like Pyramids. I'm not a fan of Pyramids, because it makes your later wonders more expensive. If I want another city, I'll research Civic.

I'm also surprised you didn't give Angkor Wat at least 4 stars, but then again you're building Pyramids. 25% military bonus is huge, and the timing of the metal bonus is huge. Like you said, it's useful if you miss the early game wonders (which I skip intentionally). Angkor Wat doesn't cost food, either. That means grab it if you don't have the food for Versailles or Liberty.

[Alinestra Covelia]

But then again all the nations are like my childrens... I LOVE THEM ALL!

But how do you play RoN with boxing gloves?

[Signa]

Yea the Pyramids do make your later game wonders more expensive, but so do all.

I'd rather be sure and get TCA/Colussus/Pyramid and not get left out later becasue those give signifigant enough bonuses that I might have economic trouble staking up againt the enemy with those wonders, so they can get Wonders faster (classical vicious cycle, its usual how I win).

Sure you can research civic, but after III or so Civic is about the relative price of the Pyramids. The xtra city is good for most nations, but as I said for Bantu it can be wonderful.

Some people playing style might favor Angkor, but mine does not really. Yours I'd assume does.

[Aginor]

If you want to analyze Wonder quality, there's basically 3 things to consider for each, in order of importance:

1) effects you can get with this Wonder you CAN'T get any other way (uncommon)
2) efficiency of the resource impact of the Wonder IN AND OF ITSELF, ie direct return on investment
3) resource impact of the Wonder as a result of increased Commerce caps (which require additional investment to utilize).

Also note the scaling costs, which is why nothing late is truly godly (other than the Wonder points)...Taj and Supercollider are just SICK, but they also cost a fortune to build, and by that point you're usually throwing your resources at arms and armaments anyway.

Listed in order of relevant category, and comments with respect to how to get the additional effects noted:

Pyramids:
+1 City, +20% Food production, +50 to Food/Wealth caps

Gives you one more City than you deserve at current Civics level. Civics is cheap, and usually it's more efficient to research an additional Civics than to build this. The extra food production is nice, but the +50 cap doesn't really help you utilize that advantage very effectively. You get a boost to your Wealth cap, but who other than the Brits/Incans ever maxes that out early?

I understand those of you that like it - it's cheap and it's not bad, but it isn't godly. 3/5

Colossus:
+50 pop cap, +30% Wealth production, +50 to Timber/Wealth caps

It's just wrong. Doubly so if you're British or Incan, as the Wealth you get is just obscene...powers a lot of Universities very fast. The main difference between this & the Pyramids is that the +50 pop cap (2 Military techs!) just keeps on giving all game, unlike the +1 City which is only good early. The other resource effects are VERY strong for the investment, as most Civs have problems accumulating Wealth. Best Wonder, hands down. But we all know that. 5/5

Terra Cotta Army:
+1 Light Infantry unit per 30 seconds + 1/2 second for each infantry unit you control.

Built early, the long term resource efficiency of this is frightening. Typical game = 20-30 units, figure at an average 160 resources a pop over the game (conservative) you're looking at an additional 3200-4800 resources earned, which ain't bad at all given that most of those resources come BEFORE the crazy late game resource caps that cause you to get 20-30k of resources. It's well worth the investment, but not worth killing yourself over. 4/5

Colosseum:
Borders +3, attrition +50% in your territory, Towers and Forts 20% cheaper.

Didn't they play-balance this? It's just not good at all...you can get +2 borders from a SPECIAL RESOURCE...ugh. The other two effects have negligible resource effects. 1/5

Temple of Tikal:
Temple effects (borders, attack) +50%, +50% Timber gathering, +100 Timber cap.

The problem with this Wonder is that Timber is just so darned easy to get. The unique effect is not all that, and with a couple of Timber producing cities it's really cheaper to throw the Food at producing another Woodcutters and filling it, and throwing it at the Lumber Mill upgrades (since you have plenty of Metal until Gunpowder or so). 2/5

Porcelain Tower:
You get all rare resources in your territory, get 200% production on the rare resources, and build ships 50% faster.

The Lighthouse always was the worst Wonder. Still is. 0/5

Angkor Wat:
Reduces Barracks, Stable, and Dock unit costs by 25%, increases Metal production 50%, and increases Metal commerce limit by 100.

Amazing how you can switch Metal in for Timber and suddenly the Wonder is good. Cutting the cost of all the Cataphracts I build before the Statue goes up isn't bad as well. Especially good from a Metal-starved position. That said, I usually build Versailles instead for reasons I explain below (and the fact that I don't burn through a lot of Metal in Enlightenment). 4/5

Versailles:
Supply Wagons heal troops, Siege/Artillery/Wagons move 25% faster, cuts non-knowledge costs of research by 50%.

This is just SICK. It deals with a host of problems you deal with on the attack (garrison spots for wounded troops, especially) and it actually pays for itself by cutting research costs down. If you build Universities as aggressively as I do, this is insanely useful...speeds my trip to Info Age up by 3-4 minutes most games. MLRS on the offensive = thanks for coming out... 5/5

Statue of Liberty
Free upgrades of non-boat units, no attrition, reduces Bomber and anti-air ground defense costs by 33%.

Useful due to the exploit that is using Light Cav exclusively and building a host of Cataphracts that mutates into Tanks. VERY resource efficient little trick that pays for the Statue in and of itself. After that the Statue is not all that...you can certainly win without it, but upgrade costs DO smart quite a bit, especially if the game gets to Info Age without being decided yet. 4/5

Kremlin
Increases attrition in your territory 100%, instant Spies, one immortal Spy, Food, Timber, and Metal caps +200.

You'd better have something to DO with those increased caps. Very situational - if you've overbuilt Food, Timber, and Metal production, or just captured a bunch, it can be quite good...provided you have the pop cap to take advantage of the extra resources. My feeling is that it's too costly for the gains provided, but that's just one man's opinion. 3/5

Taj Mahal:
Building hit points +100%, Wealth production 100%, Wealth commerce cap +300.

Doubled building hit points REALLY slow down a ground invasion of your turf. Makes you marginally more resilient against Nukes as well. Plus the Wealth you get out of this thing is just WRONG. Unfortunately, if you've built any Wonders before now the thing costs a fortune to build...a fortune you're unlikely to have at this point. 3/5

Eiffel Tower:
Borders +6, 100% Oil production, +200 Oil commerce cap

Works well if you're short on Oil, but not REALLY short on Oil. +200 on a Commerce cap is not much for the 3000+ resources you've got to throw at this thing, though. 2/5

Supercollider:
Instant research, Market sell prices always 50+, Market buy prices always 125 or less.

Situational. Most people cannot use their Markets late due to Nukes anyway. Instant tech research can be evil in one of two situations:
1) Instant Missile Shield
2) Instant World Government

Instant AI can be obnoxious if you screw up and lose a large part of your army OR if you just captured the Colossus...but generally it's the first two that can dramatically close out a game. 3/5

Space Program:
See everything on the map, including units. No Nuclear Embargo. Half price aircraft and missiles created twice as fast.

It's not bad, but you'd expect more bang for the buck for the investment. The intelligence factor of seeing everything is the most important asset from the Wonder...hard to get jumped, and you know EXACTLY where to Nuke the other guy. 3/5

Long story short, the Wonders are fairly balanced in this game, with a couple of overpowered ones and a couple of underpowered ones. Please note that I almost NEVER build Wonders with a rating less than 4 here, with the exception of the Supercollider. A perfect Wonder game for most civs IMO is Colossus, Terra Cotta, Versailles, and the Statue. Most games you have to pick to NOT build one of those...Colossus is non-negotiable for any non-Bantu civ, and the one I most frequently drop with other civs is Terra Cotta.

But take into account that I am a serious turtler...early warmongers will like Angkor Wat better than I do, and possibly a few other Wonders as well.

[Lord Sun Ce]

What you guys seem to be forgetting about the Temple of Tikal is that it also beefs up any city with a temple in it. I mean 50% increase to temple bonuses! Maya rule with this wonder, for their cities are almost impossible to destroy already!Add in a Taj wonder, and the Mayan cities will be impervious to seige- like a fly attacking an elephant. Also, Colloseum+ Kremlin+ SOL+ Russia= Impossible to beat. All of the wonders are made to compliment nations and their powers. The wonders that Russia rules with are all late game, and that's what Russia is- a late game powerhouse. The Agkor Wat is amazing on sea maps, when mountains are rare. Also, you wouldn't believe the income that those post-industrail age rare resources can bring in with the Porc. Tower! Also, the SOL + Versailles combo can bring any nation to its knees. No attr., but you can build supply wagons anyways, just for the healing effect. If you are4 going for a border pushing spree, these wonders will put you on your way to victory: Colloseum, Temple o/ Tikal, Kremlin, SOL, and Eiffel Tower. No one can penetrate your attrition shield, even if they have all of the smelter upgrades. If you add in a porcelain tower wonder, then you are also gaining the powers of all rare resources in your territory, thus leaving you to not worry about gaining the power of some of the best rares out there- diamonds, silk... need I say more? Anyways, what I'm trying to say, is that you really can't rate theses wonders, for their rates will change, depending on the nation, current economic situation, map type, and, of course, your own playing style.

[iamlod]

I just had a thought: They should make it so that If a nation that exisits on a certain region of the world map (Eastern Asia, Western Asia) builds a wonder that existed on that region of the world, they get additional bonuses from it. (They can make it so that if a nation makes a wonder that was really made by that nation, they get extra bonuses b/c then there would be way too many wonders)

sorry, I'll post this on the general forum...

[tetley]

I usually build Colossus, Terra Cotta, Versailles, Statue of Liberty; but I'm still trying to improve my game. Angkor Wat frequently makes it in there. Taj Mahal/Eiffel usually are my game winners, because they're the highest wonders that do not require Knowledge to build. SuperCollider is my tie-breaker, with 8 Wonder points + Instant super-Civic = instant victory.

Nice tip about Temple of Tikal with Mayans. That's worth a try sometime.

[NTRON]

Im Ntron(New To rise of nations) i only wanna know what is the best civ against Germans?

[Skanky Burns]

A better idea may be to look for a thread somewhat related to civs as opposed to focussing on "Wonders" to the exclusion of all else.

But thats just me.

[tetley]

I'm discovering a new trick: postpone Pyramids. If no one else builds Pyramids and you've built ~2 other wonders, the ramp-up cost on Pyramids is cheap. Up around Civic 4 Pyramids basically give you an automatic +50 food/wealth, and 1 extra city. Pays for itself in about 3 minutes. Some civs like Chinese or Egyptians need Pyramids right away, but others like Americans don't (Americans need TC).

This may work for other cheap wonders as well--backfill the lesser Wonders. Colisseum in Industrial Age isn't going to kill you, but spending north of 2000 resources on Kremlin very well can.