Canadian Journalist Beaten To Death By Iranian Autorities, Body Not Returned - Page 5

Zevico · July 17, 2003, 04:11

I've said it before, I 'll say it again: CHECK THE FACTS (or say you haven't) BEFORE YOU STICK YOUR MOUTH OUT.

Quote:

Mullahs are not part of Iranian government. They may have influence over it, just as any lobbygroup in the states for example...

Laurentius, who is the leader of Iran? Is it:
A) Ayatollah Khamaeni, who with a counil of fundamentalists (not sure on the last part) can overule any of the current president and parliament's decisions, or
B) President Khatami.

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 04:34

From BBC's Country profile:

Supreme Leader: Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i

Irainian president : President Khatami

President: Hojjat ol-Eslam val-Moslemin Hajj Seyyed Mohammad Khatami

Mohammad Khatami was born in 1943, the son of the cleric Ayatollah Hajj Ruhollah Khatami. He studied theology in Qom and Esfahan and holds degrees in education and philosophy.

He served as a parliamentary deputy, chief editor of the pro-government newspaper Keyhan and as a moderate cleric. From 1982, he held the post of Minister of Culture and Islamic Guidance but was forced to resign a decade later over accusations that he was too permissive in sanctioning books, magazines and films which hard-liners considered subversive.

He became director of the National Library, a teacher and presidential adviser.

His landslide win in the presidential elections in May 1997 represented a major setback for the conservative clergy who had held power since the 1979 Islamic revolution.

He was re-elected for a second term in June 2001 after winning just under 77% of the vote.

# First vice-president: Mohammad Reza Aref
# Defence minister: Ali Shamkhani
# Foreign minister: Kamal Kharrazi
# Interior minister: Hojjat ol-Eslam Seyyed Abdolvahed Musavi-Lari
# Oil minister: Bizhan Namdar-Zangeneh

CIA world factbook

Cabinet: Council of Ministers selected by the president with legislative approval

Head of government: President (Ali) Mohammad KHATAMI-Ardakani (since 3 August 1997); First Vice President Dr. Mohammad Reza AREF-YAZDI (since 26 August 2001)

does this answer to your question?

Spiritual leader: Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei

President: Hojjat-ol-Eslam Seyed Mohammed Khatami

What is your defination of leader? And what if the is more than one leader?

The Mad Monk · July 17, 2003, 04:36

You really are Pee Wee Herman.

Az · July 17, 2003, 04:36

OWN GOAL!

Quote:

From BBC's Country profile:

Supreme Leader: Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i

SUPREME ! not SPIRITUAL!

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 04:40

yeah, BBC says supreme, CIA spiritual
who's right?

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 04:42

And who is Pee Wee Herman? What upsets you now my lord?

Az · July 17, 2003, 04:45

You can always look at the other leader, a "moderate cleric"... whatever that is...

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 04:51

Az, I dont find suprising that he has studied religion. After all we are talking about islamic republic. Still, he is democraticly elected president. I'm not saying that iran is a free democracy, but it is doing better than 15-20 years ago.

Az · July 17, 2003, 04:53

He studied religion in the times of the Shah.

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 05:01

Meanwhile on-topic

http://www.president.ir/cronicnews/1.../820425.htm#b1

Khatami orders a review of gov't supervision over journalists death

Tehran, July 16, IRNA -- President Mohammad Khatami ordered the Ministers of Justice and Information to review the means and ways by which they carry out their judicial and security powers over journalists and the Iranian citizenry as a whole.The order was issued after he received a letter informing him of the closing down of another newpaper and detention of its editor in chief.
While stressing the supremacy of the law in a democratic republic and the need to maintain order and respect for legal institutions, he said that in the interest of national security and expediency he is likewise responsible for ensuring that citizens are protected in their rights and the people, particularly the thinkers and intellectuals in this country,are guaranteed in their freedom to express their opinions.
President Khatami expressed regret over the fact that the situation is far from ideal these days, adding that journalists and many other respectable citizens are treated in ways which deserve criticism.
He instructed the two ministers to look into the situation and come up with the appropriate action, and called on the Constitutional Supervisory Board to follow up on particular cases as well.

He's clearly doing something about this.

Giancarlo · July 17, 2003, 05:03

Khatami has little power.

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 05:05

http://www.irna.ir/en/tnews/030717183331.etn02.shtml

Anyone deemed responsible for Kazemi's death will be brought to justice

Tehran, July 16, IRNA -- Government spokesman Abdollah Ramezanzadeh
said on Wednesday that anyone deemed responsible for Iranian
photographer Mrs Zahra Kazemi's death would be brought to justice.
"Since Mrs Zahra Kazemi is an Iranian, so no country has the right
to seek the transfer of her body," he said.
Asked about Canadian prime minister's statement that Iran-Canada
relations would be affected if Iran did not transfer Kazemi's body to
Canada, the spokesman said it seems the Canadian prime minister did
not consider the international law, because Mrs Kazemi is an Iranian
and is subject to national law.
He said that the special committee formed by President Mohammad
Khatami will announce a formal report on the reason for the
photographer's death.
SS/AH/AR

This is their official policy to handle this thing.

Giancarlo · July 17, 2003, 05:06

Is this lip service, or reality? I will wait. Not be assumptionary.

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 05:10

Frankly Fez, I don't know. I do hope that this will prompt changes in their security forces

laurentius · July 17, 2003, 05:16

one more:
http://www.irna.ir/en/tnews/030717225312.etn00.shtml

Canadian FM discusses death of Iranian journalist with Kharrazi

Tehran, July 16, IRNA -- Canadian Foreign Minister Bill Graham held
telephone talks with his Iranian counterpart Kamal Kharrazi on
Wednesday over the death of an Iranian photojournalist, who worked for
Canada's Camera Press magazine.
Graham praised Iranian President Mohammad Khatami for taking
measures, aimed at bringing the cause of the death to light and hoped
that the results of the probe would be announced in the earliest, as
demanded by Kazemi's relatives in Canada.
Kharrazi stressed that "the Islamic Republic of Iran is sensitive
and committed to the fate of its nationals" and assured that officials
"will act very seriously and firmly" in establishing the cause of the
death as soon as possible.
He, however, said that "every body has to wait so that the real
cause of Mrs. Kazemi's death is clarified".
Earlier in the day, Government spokesman Abdollah Ramezanzadeh
rejected Canada's request to transfer the journalist's body to that
country, saying "Mrs. Kazemi is an Iranian citizen and in this case we
will act according to the will of her family".
"In our view, no foreign government has the right to make any
special comment in this regard, given the Iranian nationality of Mrs.
Kazemi," he told reporters.
Ramezanzadeh, however, pledged that the government would hand
over probable culprits in the death case to the Judiciary, which he
said, has to deal with them.
"If it is proved that an offense has been committed, the violators
must be confronted and this is the government's demand," he said.
Vice President for legal affairs, Mohammad-Ali Abtahi, also
announced the results of an autopsy, ordered by the government,
concluding that Kazemi had died "of a brain hemorrhage as a result
of a blow".
"The committee, which has been formed on the order of President
(Mohammad Khatami), is following up the matter to see how and where
this happened," he told reporters after a cabinet session.
Ministry of Culture had said that the journalist was arrested last
month while illegally taking pictures from Evin prison in Tehran and
whisked away to Information (Intelligence) Ministry, where he felt
unwell and was taken to hospital.
Several days later, she was pronounced dead from brain stroke on
July 11, the head of the ministry's foreign media office,
Mohammad-Hossein Khoshvaqt said.
It was then that President Khatami ordered Iran's four ministries
of intelligence, interior, culture and justice to form a special
committee and bring the cause of the death to light.
On Tuesday, the ad hoc committee ruled against plans to bury
Kazemi's body and stopped it until investigations into the cause of
the death were final.
An informed source told IRNA Tuesday, that the committee had
rejected a request from Zahra Kazemi's mother to transfer the body
from the coroner's office to her birthplace in Shiraz for interring.
The source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, also said
that the committee has categorically rejected the burial as long as
the cause of the journalist's death is not established.
The announcement came as some news agencies and websites alleged
that Kazemi had been buried in Shiraz after the coroner's office had
issued a death certificate.
BH/JB

I think they are doing the right thing when they refuse to let Kazemis mother bury her.

Giancarlo · July 17, 2003, 05:19

Lets wait and see.

lord of the mark · July 17, 2003, 09:25

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius

I think it's far more dangerous if anyone possess Nukes. Complete disarmament is what I want!

How about regional disarmament? IIUC, Israel has repeatedly offered to discuss nuclear disarmament with Iran and all its neighbors. Iran refuse to talk with Israel about anything. The barrier to regional disarmament in the middle east is NOT the Israeli nuclear program, but Irans refusal to negotiate with Israel.

Kramerman · July 20, 2003, 18:49

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
And how is Iran more "murder-rapist-robber" than USA?

actually, i think it is quite clear I was reffering to IRAQ... whether you dileberately missed this point or not, i cannot tell. I dont mean to be a bastard, but this particular subject is a big pet peeve of mine.

As for Iran, I can only recall poor things they have done to others or themsleves. Of course someone will chime in with the "oh, but the US only ****s everyone over too..." remark... but for some reason, when something good for one country is done in part for another country's self-interest, the good thing they did seems to not matter, a la nearly every American action since its creation (excluding a few exceptions, vietnam, some incursions into latin amercan, etc).

well, if you really see no difference between Saddam Hussein having WoMD and the democratic US, or the fundy Iranians and the US, then you have some perspective problems. I dont think i have to elaborate much more on this.

laurentius · July 21, 2003, 02:40

No, it wasnt clear at all. You said "Iraq/Iran/NK", I asked "how is IRAN more blah blah blah". I think you misunderstood me. I wasnt been talking about Iraq at all, and I'm not going to start to now. Not in this thread anyway.

There are fundies in US government too, you know. There are normal people in Iranian government too.

Kramerman · July 21, 2003, 02:45

Quote:

There are fundies in US government too, you know. There are normal people in Iranian government too.

the US and Iranian governments are REAL comparable, you are right...

Kramerman · July 21, 2003, 02:50

the funde's in the US dont have their hand over the big red button. the US also has the doctrine of only using nukes in retaliation... we cant say the same for the iranians,nk, iraqis

laurentius · July 21, 2003, 02:51

You totally missed the point now. I didnt mean to compare them. It's just not that black & white. It's not goodies vs. badies

Kramerman · July 21, 2003, 02:53

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
You totally missed to point now. I didnt mean to compare them. It's just not that black & white. It's not goodies vs. badies

then what point are you trying to make?

laurentius · July 21, 2003, 03:11

Do you always read only one half of the reply?

Kramerman · July 21, 2003, 03:19

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
Do you always read only one half of the reply?

yes. i would still like to knowyour point tho, as i believe i missed it

laurentius · July 21, 2003, 03:27

ok. Why do you have to continously stack Iran, Iraq and NK?
All I want to talk about is Iran. As for Iran, I still dont understand how Iran is more "murder-rapist-robber" than USA. Later I said that the US has it's fundies too. Iran has probably lot more than US, but as the situation in Iran is slowly getting better, in USA it's the other way around.

Kramerman · July 21, 2003, 03:31

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
ok. Why do you have to continously stack Iran, Iraq and NK?
All I want to talk about is Iran. As for Iran, I still dont understand how Iran is more "murder-rapist-robber" than USA. Later I said that the US has it's fundies too. Iran has probably lot more than US, but as the situation in Iran is slowly getting better, in USA it's the other way around.

ok, thank you. i can go to bed now

laurentius · July 21, 2003, 03:34

bastard abusing my senslessivity of humourivity.