Awful Auto Accident (or massive homicide?) in California

Giancarlo · July 16, 2003, 21:40

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/1...ash/index.html

Quote:

SANTA MONICA, California (CNN) -- An elderly man driving a mid-size car plowed through a crowded farmers market Wednesday, killing eight people, including a 3-year-old girl, authorities said.

The more than 55 hurt include 15 people with critical injuries, they said.

Santa Monica Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said the driver of the car, who appears to be in his 80s, is in custody after being released from a local hospital where he was found to have no alcohol or psychiatric medications in his system.

He said the man is in stable condition, conscious and talking to officers at the police station.

Butts said the man drove his 1992 mid-size Buick "at least at a moderate rate of speed" for three blocks along the market street, which was filled with pedestrians, "striking dozens of people." The car stopped only after a pedestrian was thrown into the air and landed on the windshield of the vehicle, Butts said.

The accident occurred at 1:47 p.m. (4:47 p.m. EDT), Butts said.

Butts said officers have interviewed more than 100 witnesses who give conflicting reports regarding the driver's demeanor at the time of the incident.

"So now we're attempting to determine whether this was a straight accident -- medically related -- criminal negligence or criminal homicide," Butts said.

One witness said, "He was not only speeding, he was accelerating."

Joe Chrisman works in a building along the street where the market is held. He witnessed the accident and said the driver appeared befuddled.

"He looked very, very confused," Chrisman said. "I think he was just mentally out of touch. He seemed very confused when he stepped out of the car. He definitely shouldn't have been behind the wheel. He was definitely not quite with it."

Chrisman said there was a woman underneath the man's car, and after a bicycle policeman apprehended the driver, a group of about 10 people together lifted the car off of the victim, who was still breathing.

Video shot by local news station helicopters showed several people being treated by emergency personnel on top of red sheets in the street. Ambulances and police cars crowded the area, and a damaged red car sat among debris.

'Single most horrific, devastating scene of tragedy'
As police roped off the crime scene, a child's blue stroller sat empty in the street amid bodies covered with yellow tarps.

"This is the single most horrific, devastating scene of tragedy I've ever witnessed in 30 years of law enforcement," Butts said. He added that the sight of the dead child "just broke my heart."

Chrisman said he ran outside to help after the accident.

There was "so much carnage," he said.

Four of the injured were taken to St. John's Health Center, where a spokeswoman said one person was in critical condition, two were moderately injured and one had a minor injury.

UCLA Medical Center received seven patients: one in critical condition, two in serious condition and four with minor injuries.

A spokeswoman for the Santa Monica Police Department said the Wednesday market is usually extremely busy, with three city blocks devoted to the market stalls and closed to all but pedestrian traffic.

According to the city's Web site, 9,000 people visit the market each week.

Awful... I can't even put it in words how terrible this is....

geeslaka · July 16, 2003, 22:02

Edited by ming.... and check your PM's geeslaka... and I would recommend you do so soon.

Giancarlo · July 16, 2003, 22:03

I don't think this thread is good for you to be sarcastic.

Shut up.

Tuberski · July 16, 2003, 22:04

It is, indeed, sad. What if this old man was being chased by police though?

ACK!

Giancarlo · July 16, 2003, 22:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberski
It is, indeed, sad. What if this old man was being chased by police though?

ACK!

I still think you are incorrect in that other debate we were having.

He probably drove to the market in a modest speed, then sped up through the market.

Don't hijack this thread.

Kidicious · July 17, 2003, 00:15

The latest is that he mistook the gas pedal for the brakes.

We really need to do something about elderly drivers.

Dis · July 17, 2003, 01:56

It was an accident

but they really should revoke licenses from old people who cannot drive.

Dis · July 17, 2003, 02:01

another person has just died.

that brings the total to 9

including a 3 year old girl, and an 8 year old girl

Drake Tungsten · July 17, 2003, 02:02

Tragic. Yet more proof that society should grind up old people and turn them into food.

The Mad Monk · July 17, 2003, 02:40

We should revoke licenses from people who can't drive, period.

Az · July 17, 2003, 04:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Tragic. Yet more proof that society should grind up old people and turn them into food.

In the words of George Carlin: "If we're going to recycle, LET'S GET SERIOUS!"

BeBro · July 17, 2003, 06:18

Hey, but who would eat such old stuff?

aaglo · July 17, 2003, 06:35

What a waste...

CerberusIV · July 17, 2003, 06:39

1 Old people vote.

2 People who aren't competent to drive usually refuse to believe they aren't competent.

3 If you piled up all the people killed on the roads in one place at one time each year there would be a massive public outcry at such a horrific disaster. Because the deaths are spread out they are relatively "invisible" so there isn't the pressure on legislators to do something drastic about it.

Driving tests should be harder and you should have to take a test every few years once you reach 60 but it isn't going to happen because people see driving a car as a right, not a privilege.

It's raining here so that's why I feel a bit negative today

aaglo · July 17, 2003, 07:02

That kind of accidents raise negative thoughts, rain or shine...

PLATO · July 17, 2003, 07:10

It is ridiculous that people only have to take a driving test at 16 and then just pay the renewal every few years and they keep their license for life. Mandatory retesting should be done every year beyond age 65 IMHO. There just comes a point when you have to put up your keys and get the grandkids to take you around.

uh Clem · July 17, 2003, 08:15

My father's last experience behind the wheel came three years ago at the age of 80. He was in the driveway in his Dodge V-8 truck (!!), and set sail...in reverse. Knocked the garage door completely off the rails.

That was it. Confiscate the keys, sell the truck. He's strictly a passenger now.

Winston · July 17, 2003, 08:32

On second thoughts, I'll edit this out.

Sikander · July 17, 2003, 08:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Tragic. Yet more proof that society should grind up old people and turn them into food.

Green Party Changes name. Now to be called Soylent Green Party.

Mercator · July 17, 2003, 09:15

Quote:

Originally posted by PLATO1003
It is ridiculous that people only have to take a driving test at 16 and then just pay the renewal every few years and they keep their license for life. Mandatory retesting should be done every year beyond age 65 IMHO. There just comes a point when you have to put up your keys and get the grandkids to take you around.

Yeah, right.

One 80 year old ****s up and suddenly everyone over 65 should be tested continually.

The vast majority of accidents are caused by people around their twenties. And I'm pretty sure at least as many people died in other car accidents that same day, caused by much younger drivers.

I think a better idea would be to have mandatory annual retesting for, say, the first 5 years after getting your license. And then for the rest of your life, every 5 years (or less).

Over here in Holland, I just heard, more and more companies start organising yearly examinations for all their employees with company cars. The reduction in car accidents more than pays back the investment. I'd say that's a good thing (even though the idea behind it is money, not safety).

Drake Tungsten · July 17, 2003, 09:51

Quote:

Green Party Changes name. Now to be called Soylent Green Party.

Not a bad idea. It would probably make the party more politically viable.

mrmitchell · July 17, 2003, 10:03

Quote:

The vast majority of accidents are caused by people around their twenties

I was under the impression that the vast majority of drivers were in their twenties too?

Quote:

One 80 year old ****s up and suddenly everyone over 65 should be tested continually.

No. I suggest that, say, we just have a retest at 65. That would go ahead and probably weed out all the serious incidents.

CerberusIV · July 17, 2003, 10:16

This kind of thing has been a problem in the UK for a long time. I saw a TV programme a while ago about a scheme where drivers are given the choice between a refresher/training course and test or being prosecuted. What was worrying was one woman, clearly over 65, who had nearly caused a serious accident, was shown making potentially serious mistakes on the training and absolutely refused to accept that her driving was less than perfect.

There was another case a few years ago where someone ran over and killed a pedestrian using a marked crossing. The driver was found to be completely blind in one eye and to have only 20% vision in the other eye but had just carried on driving.

I don't know if the system in the US is any better but at least some steps to check people are physically and mentally fit to drive after they pass their initial test are long overdue in the UK.

My father is 76 and should not be driving a car but it would seriously limit his quality of life if he had to stop so his doctor keeps signing the forms to say he is fit. Crazy system.

Dry · July 17, 2003, 10:40

Quote:

One witness said, "He was not only speeding, he was accelerating."

Joe Chrisman works in a building along the street where the market is held. He witnessed the accident and said the driver appeared befuddled.

"He looked very, very confused," Chrisman said. "I think he was just mentally out of touch. He seemed very confused when he stepped out of the car.

Epileptic ?

FrustratedPoet · July 17, 2003, 10:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
He probably drove to the market in a modest speed, then sped up through the market.

And thus the Fez investigation is closed. Next!

Are you suggesting that this old guy drove slowly and calmly up to the market and then put his foot on the gas to mow down a row of children? Cos that's what it sounds like...

Anyway, this is a great tragedy.

Quote:

We should revoke licenses from people who can't drive, period.

Agreed. Everyone should be required to retake the test every 10 years, in my opinion, regardless of their age.

Arrian · July 17, 2003, 11:02

Every 10 might be too far apart. Every 5 sounds more like it.

They have been working on making the requirements for new drivers more strict (my 16yr old nephew just got his license, and he had to do lots more than I did when I got mine... which is very much a good thing), so I think they should be working on the older drivers too.

Of course, the main sticking point has already been brought up: the elderly vote.

-Arrian

p.s. My driving test (10 years ago) was utterly pathetic. So I absolutely agree it should be harder, with more training required.

FrustratedPoet · July 17, 2003, 11:13

Of course, forcing everyone to retake the test every 5 or 10 years is hardly a vote-winning policy with any demographic. Many sensible policies aren't.

What the US needs is a unelected dictator who can push through legislation with only a passing nod in the direction of the constitution. Oh wait .....

Arrian · July 17, 2003, 11:16

You're a funny guy, FP. A funny guy.

Actually, that might be a good idea, so long as I'm the dictator.

-Arrian

DinoDoc · July 17, 2003, 11:16

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Are you suggesting that this old guy drove slowly and calmly up to the market and then put his foot on the gas to mow down a row of children? Cos that's what it sounds like...

He might have confused the brake pedal for the gas pedal but I'm just reaching here.

FrustratedPoet · July 17, 2003, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian

You're a funny guy, FP. A funny guy.

Actually, that might be a good idea, so long as I'm the dictator.

-Arrian

Oooh, the LOL and RANT smilies. Now I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. The suspense is killing me.

You'd make a good dictator Arrian. If you got too out of line we'd just put you under House Arrest. You'd be a dangerous madman, but at least we'd know where you were: "Just don't go in that bloody house!".

Quote:

He might have confused the brake pedal for the gas pedal but I'm just reaching here.

I've done that before. That's the reason why we need regular driving tests to weed out the dangerous incompetent drivers like me and this old guy.