North and South Korea Briefly Exchange Fire

[Thoth]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
BTW, we've detected Krypton 35 over North Korea.

No, it has nothing to do with Superman.

?? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm unclear on the signifigance of this. Please explain.

[Defiant]

Monkey Boy is being funny because the USA is using the WMD reason for attacking Iraq so if we find some other chemical in NK, it will give us reason to invade NK.

[Alexander's Horse]

More significant was the thing you guys didn't notice a week or so agao - the US is withdrawing its troops from the DMZ i.e. out of range of nuclear artillery

Bad luck if you live in Seoul.

[DinoDoc]

Wasn't that kind of the point of the move?

[Defiant]

I believe we should pull all 37,000 troops out of SK and redeploy as replacements in Iraq to let the 3rd Infantry get a well deserved rest. The SK President was elected on the platform of being stronger against the US so apparently they don't need us. The SK should love the idea that we are finally leaving their country.

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Defiant
Monkey Boy is being funny because the USA is using the WMD reason for attacking Iraq so if we find some other chemical in NK, it will give us reason to invade NK.

I see, but I'm still drawing a blank on Krypton 35.

(Bear with me I'm still working on my second cup of coffee...)

[Q Classic]

why does this shootout surprise anybody? little flares like this pop up all the time. at least my cousin's all right. he gets out end of august, and that's all i'm looking forward to. (well, if there is a war, he'd be called up since he'd still be in the reserves, but.)

IIRC, the current SKorean president got elected on a unification platform.

...
...

no, he didn't. he got elected by appealing to the younger generation which favors continuing to buy off nkorea and taking a less aggressive stance. that's what the "sunshine policy" (which goes under a different name these days) boils down to--buying off nkorea so it doesn't ruin skorea. there was a very big split between the older generation which favored LEE hoichang instead of ROH moohyun; the older people generally wanted more accountability/assurance from the north as they are buying them off.
there was no "unification" about it in the platform.
if you must know, every skorean government has a ministry of unification. it's a cabinet-level position; lee would have had one, just like the kims before him, this roh and the other one, the chun, park, and rhee. nkorea also has a ministry of unification as well.

As long as Dubya doesn't fall asleep and bang his head on the red button, nobody will be glowing in the dark.

i must say, i have great respect for dubya's foreign idiocy in east asia. not only has he done a complete 360 with regards to nkorea, flipping to the opposite of clinton before flipping pretty much right back, he and his advisors have got their heads so far up their collective asses that they've got no coherent policy towards the north. ignoring the north won't make it go away, boys.

and i love how cavalier everyone is about nuking the peninsula. it's great, really. it's only a bunch of zipperheads that live there, so no worries.

Apparently, the North Koreans are so paranoid about the internet that they run their official site out of Singapore.

or it could be that they don't really have servers in that hellhole of theirs.

2. More bombs: Those wacky NKs keep extracting Plutonium, and they are said to be making smaller bombs so they can stick them on their rockets. Supposedly they have enough for 8 right now.

currently, none of the weapons they have are small enough to fit on a rocket. let's hope they don't develop anything like that soon.

All the tracking/guiding systems in these weapons are of antiquated nature, and probably will end up in the ocean if fired.

can you guarantee that? no? then it's better to be safe than sorry, don't you think?

More significant was the thing you guys didn't notice a week or so agao - the US is withdrawing its troops from the DMZ i.e. out of range of nuclear artillery.

so they're no longer the speed bump. really, those american troops wouldn't have done much had the nkoreans come pouring down from the north. "speed bump" was an apt description.

The SK President was elected on the platform of being stronger against the US so apparently they don't need us. The SK should love the idea that we are finally leaving their country.

if you actually look at how people feel there, it's not that they feel like they don't need you. it's that they don't feel respected. there's a world of difference there.
they want americans to stay (by and large). they just want the downtown seoul prime real estate that the main us base rests on because it's good development property. they don't want to feel shafted when some **** goes down with a bad soldier (as in the case of those two girls getting smushed).
the sk president was elected on that platform--and once he got into office, he promptly turned around and said he wanted the amis to stay.
btw, the sk president is quite unpopular now. the sunshine policy of his isn't quite popular at home.

and kr-35, i believe, is a radioactive byproduct of some purification processes.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
btw, the sk president is quite unpopular now. the sunshine policy of his isn't quite popular at home.

What changed?

[TCO]

Well, I love how you **** all over us and then expect us to do something about it, Q. you frigging weasel.

[Giancarlo]

can you guarantee that? no? then it's better to be safe than sorry, don't you think?

I can't guarantee that.. I just read information provided at:

http://www.fas.org

It doesn't say everything. I am always trying to urge caution on assuming when it comes to the DPRK's secretive nature.

[DinoDoc]

if you actually look at how people feel there, it's not that they feel like they don't need you. it's that they don't feel respected. there's a world of difference there.

If thier feelings were actually based on something real they would get more attention from us.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by TCO
Well, I love how you **** all over us and then expect us to do something about it, Q. you frigging weasel.

no doubt

launch some sub nukes on his azz

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Thoth


I see, but I'm still drawing a blank on Krypton 35.

(Bear with me I'm still working on my second cup of coffee...)

Krypton 35 is a by-product of plutonium reprocessing. Whatever their intentions for the things, the DPRK is preparing a nuclear arsenal. These WMD's are not in question...they ARE doing it.

[Q Classic]

What changed?

well, a) they found out that roh was a weenie and couldn't even stand up to the unions, b) the entire nuke thing is slowing the economy, which isn't quite good, and c) although the young aren't that afraid of war or the north, they're starting to get antsy about how things are turning out.

Well, I love how you **** all over us and then expect us to do something about it, Q. you frigging weasel.

how do i **** all over you guys and expect you to do something about it? if this is a troll, i honestly don't understand the point of it.
if anything, i'm in support of keeping america in skorea, with at least the dressing of accomodating their gripes. the blanket of liberalism which hid our realist ambitions in the past worked. that's all we need to pacify those younger skoreans.
it's still very true that the 37k american troops wouldn't be able to do that much in the event of a war. facing around a million nkoreans, the americans would not only be outnumbered, but they'd be forced to pass off most of the fighting to the rok army--which is in many ways how it should be. which is one reason why i'm glad the americans pulled back from the dmz to a better place for them, one where they won't be wasted in the first few hours of a war. americans in the peninsula are a psychological deterrent: nkorea knows that if one drop of american blood is shed, they will see the might of america brought down upon them alongside the growing hammer of skorea's military. that's one reason, i suppose, they're looking to build nukes: to equalize it, at least in their minds.
if you're talking about my disdain for bush, it's because i want bush to come up with a very clear policy on how to deal with the north. this ignoring them bit obviously isn't working. i don't think acting belligerent to the north will help matters either. i don't think we should cave into their demands for more aid unless it's coupled with a very clear reciprocation on their part which can be independently--and rigorously--verified. i think this interdiction is a good idea. and i think bush should send an envoy for bilateral talks, with multilateral observers.
of course, he's not doing that last one anymore. ignoring it is not going to make the problem go away--it looks to me like buring one's head in the sand.

so i fail to see, tco, how exactly i'm shitting all over you. would you care to elucidate on that and explain why you think i have it in for the americans?

[TCO]

Whose gripes do you want to address? Ours? We are the ones staying there.

[Q Classic]

If thier feelings were actually based on something real they would get more attention from us.

if americans realized that appearances mean a lot more in asia than they do here, we'd do a lot better in our relations over there.
you look like you're listening to them. then you do whatever the hell you want. you say you'll consider allowing criminal trials to take place in korean courts, and then let that proposal fall down the bottomless pit of "reform".
trust me, you'd pacify a lot of these younger, more blindly nationalistic koreans if you did small things like that.

no doubt

launch some sub nukes on his azz

[Q Classic]

Whose gripes do you want to address? Ours? We are the ones staying there.

what gripes to the americans have? other than the fact that it's considered a "hardship" tour of duty, or that they don't like the smell of kimchi, or that the conservatives and liberals back home think we should pull out of korea and leave them to rot?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
you look like you're listening to them. then you do whatever the hell you want. you say you'll consider allowing criminal trials to take place in korean courts, and then let that proposal fall down the bottomless pit of "reform".

How about we tell them that our status of forces agreement with the RoK is more respectful of thier justice system than the agreements we have with other countries?

[TCO]

Oh givce me a break. you needy little ****. WE are there protecting them. And they have gripes? ARe you a child? Have you ever worked for a living? Or do you see the US as mommy to the world?

[Q Classic]

How about we tell them that our status of forces agreement with the RoK is more respectful of thier justice system than the agreements we have with other countries?

tell them that over and over again, and pretend to listen to them ***** and whine. then don't do anything.
is that so hard?

Oh givce me a break. you needy little ****. WE are there protecting them. And they have gripes? ARe you a child? Have you ever worked for a living? Or do you see the US as mommy to the world?

how am i the needy little *****?
the us isn't the one physically protecting them. we're psychologically protecting them by scaring the bejeezus out of the north. most of the actual fighting in any coming war will be done by koreans between korean troops.
yes, they have gripes. you seem to revel in killing the messenger. did i ever say i thought those gripes were valid? all i said was to pretend, put on a facade, a face, and then do what we've been doing.
i still fail to see why you're attacking me... would it be better if i shut up and you didn't hear about these things?

[Ted Striker]

how the hell are the south koreans scaring them

[TCO]

We are protecting them by having our troops there, so that if the baloon goes up, we are on the bubble to back them up. If we're not protecting them, its no big deal if we leave. If they have gripes with the SOF agreement, we can make things a lot easier for them...

**** "face".

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
how the hell are the south koreans scaring them

The RoK army wasn't scaring them. It's the small American contingent that was scaring them. Oddly enough moving them away from the DMZ seemed to scare the crap out of both the RoK and the DPRK.

[Q Classic]

how the hell are the south koreans scaring them

i didn't say the skoreans were scaring them. i said we americans are.

maybe i should explain that i'm an american of korean extraction. meaning if there was a war there, i'd sign up and fight under the american banner, not the korean one.

37k american troops aren't going to make much of a difference in the opening stages of war when confronted by over 1 million nkorean soldiers and fighting alongside 600k skorean soldiers. i'm glad that the americans pulled themselves further south, because now they'll have a fighting chance, rather than being crushed in the opening hours.

that had the added effect of scaring nkorea, since it made it look like we were taking them out of immediate range--and thus potentially allowing us a greater hand in launching the first strike.
it scared skorea because they couldn't take their defense for granted as much anymore. no longer would america be the one to foot all the bills. it's a good thing too, because we'll be passing off most of the fighting to them anyway.

======

We are protecting them by having our troops there, so that if the baloon goes up, we are on the bubble to back them up. If we're not protecting them, its no big deal if we leave. If they have gripes with the SOF agreement, we can make things a lot easier for them...

did i ever say we weren't? all i said that the 37k troops there are not a physical deterrent so much as a psychological deterrent. do you honestly think that 37k troops--and not all of them combat troops--would be able to take apart the million man army?
the 37k troops are there to hammer home the message to nkorea: you mess with skorea, and you'll hit an american. if you hit an american, we'll come in full force and crush you. the 37k troops are no more than a finger connected to the mighty arm that happens to be the american military.
that's all i've been saying.

so they have gripes. everybody has gripes. not all of them are valid. i honestly don't think the korean ones are valid.

**** "face".

and yet you still want to attack me, the messenger.
why?

[TCO]

Glad to see you clarify the term "psychological detterent". I'm not familiar with that one. Never heard it in any briefings. But it is credible and it commits us. So it is not vaporous. It has effects.

Regardless, if the SOF is so onerous, let's boogie. SK does not have it's eye one the ball.

**** face. Deal with the cold equations of space.

[Q Classic]

Regardless, if the SOF is so onerous, let's boogie. SK does not have it's eye one the ball.

we'll agree to disagree here. i think the rift could easily be dealt with by some little white diplomatic lies.

**** face. Deal with the cold equations of space.

i understand what you're saying now. it sounds so simple, but i think the years of embedded confucianism (which has hamstrung politics and true capitalism) won't allow public appearances to be ignored.

[Thoth]

Originally posted by PLATO1003


Krypton 35 is a by-product of plutonium reprocessing.

Thanks, it's been more than a couple of years since I've looked at a periodic table.

[SIZE=1]
Whatever their intentions for the things, the DPRK is preparing a nuclear arsenal. These WMD's are not in question...they ARE doing it.

Not much doubt in my mind about that, but I highly doubt that Jr Bush is capable of handling the situation well. I hope I'm wrong, but........

[Drake Tungsten]

it sounds so simple, but i think the years of embedded confucianism (which has hamstrung politics and true capitalism) won't allow public appearances to be ignored.

Americans don't give a **** about Confucianism and the South Koreans would do well to remember that. We shouldn't have to kowtow to Korean cultural sensibilities; we're helping the Koreans out, not the other way around.

[Thoth]

Drake: That attitude is a big part of the reason why the US is disliked so much in the rest of the world.

[Q Classic]

Americans don't give a **** about Confucianism and the South Koreans would do well to remember that. We shouldn't have to kowtow to Korean cultural sensibilities; we're helping the Koreans out, not the other way around.

americans are helping the koreans out.

but when in rome, do as the romans do.