France commits idiotic act to try to show it is superior to America... bans "e-mail" - Page 3

PLATO · July 18, 2003, 22:45

language equivilent of the Borg

DinoDoc · July 18, 2003, 22:46

I make no claim about my spelling abilities.

DAVOUT · July 19, 2003, 03:17

To be adopted as a French word, e-mail had two problems :
- there is no composed word with an initial being one part in French
- the prononciation of e in french is different from the prononciation in English; therefore, a direct adaptation would have been imail; compared to courriel, already existing as a French word in Canada, it has been judged that the choice was easy.

I would like to point out to Vel and Plato that freedom of expression is not concerned by a technical word; freedom of expression refers to ideas, and you choose the words most appropriate for being understood when you express your ideas.

About the transfer or translation of technical words, it was very interesting to observe how the computer industry created words for new concepts : they used old words in new meanings, such as mouse, icone, file, storage, cut-and-paste, window, etc, and these ords were of course easy to translate in all languages.

The word computer found an interesting translation (suggested by IBM France) in the word ordinateur which belongs to the old vocabulary of the Catholic Church.

The wysiwyg concept is an entirely other game; obviously the guys who created it had fun in designing the word. For the fun of it, one guy suggested *telecritelecran*, which describes thething with a funny sound.

All this could appear frivolous to some of you, but we have been educated in the belief that an efficient communication can only be made with people who agree with us on the meaning of each word, and this is an endless effort.

Combat Ingrid · July 19, 2003, 04:14

France this, France that... Can you please get over this obsession?

VJ · July 19, 2003, 04:28

Quote:

BTW, the term is banned on governmental official documents only.

I made a long, long rant from this yesterday against France-bashers. Apolyton server crashed.

Can't be arsed to rewrite it.

, server would just crash again

DAVOUT · July 19, 2003, 05:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

I made a long, long rant from this yesterday against France-bashers. Apolyton server crashed.

Can't be arsed to rewrite it.

, server would just crash again

This is so frequent and so frustrating

that either I write first in Word, or I make a control c before sending.

PLATO · July 19, 2003, 07:58

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVOUT
I would like to point out to Vel and Plato that freedom of expression is not concerned by a technical word; freedom of expression refers to ideas, and you choose the words most appropriate for being understood when you express your ideas.

I agree, but apparently in France "you choose the words" means something different. State control over any part of free and expressive language is just not right. I have no problem with a French governmental agency saying that this is the preferred word for this or that, but to BAN the use of a world wide accepted term?

Sandman · July 19, 2003, 08:14

It's not as if America doesn't do this. Civilian casualties becoming 'collateral damage', for example.

Q Classic · July 19, 2003, 08:20

i don't see what's wrong with them trying to pick a different word for email.

if they want to waste time doing it, more power to them. it's none of my concern, and really isn't any of yours...

unless you're a student of french, and then it gives you rights to be pissed off.

DAVOUT · July 19, 2003, 08:26

Quote:

Originally posted by PLATO1003

I agree, but apparently in France "you choose the words" means something different. State control over any part of free and expressive language is just not right. I have no problem with a French governmental agency saying that this is the preferred word for this or that, but to BAN the use of a world wide accepted term?

You are misled by passion

In an above post I explained why, technically, e-mail cannot be adopted as a French word; but many others are adopted as they are written in english when there is no satisfactory equivalent. I discovered recently that happening is now a French word, because we were unable to build an equivalent meaning with the French language tools.

You should not suspect bad intents when we maintain our language, which does not harm or threatten anybody; for us it resort to the same nature of duty than maintaining our cathedrales. Vel will probably say that cathedrales are useless in a country where people no longer go to the church, but we desagree.

TCO · July 19, 2003, 10:47

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVOUT
To be adopted as a French word, e-mail had two problems :
- there is no composed word with an initial being one part in French
- the prononciation of e in french is different from the prononciation in English; therefore, a direct adaptation would have been imail; compared to courriel, already existing as a French word in Canada, it has been judged that the choice was easy.

I would like to point out to Vel and Plato that freedom of expression is not concerned by a technical word; freedom of expression refers to ideas, and you choose the words most appropriate for being understood when you express your ideas.

About the transfer or translation of technical words, it was very interesting to observe how the computer industry created words for new concepts : they used old words in new meanings, such as mouse, icone, file, storage, cut-and-paste, window, etc, and these ords were of course easy to translate in all languages.

The word computer found an interesting translation (suggested by IBM France) in the word ordinateur which belongs to the old vocabulary of the Catholic Church.

The wysiwyg concept is an entirely other game; obviously the guys who created it had fun in designing the word. For the fun of it, one guy suggested *telecritelecran*, which describes thething with a funny sound.

All this could appear frivolous to some of you, but we have been educated in the belief that an efficient communication can only be made with people who agree with us on the meaning of each word, and this is an endless effort.

Guess what moron? You don't need someone to DECIDE what word to use. People will just choose what they want.

Boris Godunov · July 19, 2003, 10:56

I couldn't use the word "****" in official government documents. How dare they try to control my speech!!!

Look, it's not nearly the deal people are making it out to be. It does not apply to anything but official government documents, so it is in no way limiting freedom of speech or expression. It's setting a government policy. So what? My company has policies dictating what language I can and can't use in correspondence.

DAVOUT · July 19, 2003, 10:59

Quote:

Originally posted by TCO

Guess what moron? You don't need someone to DECIDE what word to use. People will just choose what they want.

I could be interested in your opinion regarding the difficulty met in translating technical words, if you have any.

But if you are just looking for opportunities to insult people without risk, please feel free to go on.

TCO · July 19, 2003, 10:59

I'm not excited by it. I just think they are pretentious snobs.

TCO · July 19, 2003, 11:00

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVOUT

I could be interested in your opinion regarding the difficulty met in translating technical words, if you have any.

But if you are just looking for opportunities to insult people without risk, please feel free to go on.

I already said that all you have to do is let usage choose the frigging word. Clean the wax out of your brain and think, moron.

Drake Tungsten · July 19, 2003, 11:04

TCO -

Sava · July 19, 2003, 11:06

Quote:

Doesn't take much to set off the raving French-bashers these days. They're the real xenophobes.

Quote:

DarthVeda (2)
Vesayen
Vel (2)
Sava
Oerdin
Japher
Plato

Tass, perhaps the Mormons are turning you into a tard... read what I wrote...

Quote:

I think a Democratic nation has the right to worry about whatever they like. Some people have a cultural identity that they value. This is hard to understand for Americans who don't really have a culture. The French value their culture. And they take measures to preserve it. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not as if they are invading other countries trying to spread their VALUES! You don't see French missionaries trying to convert "heathens" to become French. Why are people so combative towards the French, but seem to think Christian missionaries are good. I don't get it.

GePap · July 19, 2003, 11:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
TCO -

yay. way to insult others and ignore thier honest ideas!

Drake Tungsten · July 19, 2003, 11:21

Quote:

yay. way to insult others and ignore thier honest ideas!

He's exactly right about the cultural arrogance that lies behind this French behavior. Why should he have to suffer fools who can't see the obvious subtext to French linguistic policy?

Sava · July 19, 2003, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

yay. way to insult others and ignore thier honest ideas!

He's exactly right about the cultural arrogance that lies behind this French behavior. Why should he have to suffer fools who can't see the obvious subtext to French linguistic policy?

It's hilarious that most righties will bash the French for language protectionism, yet, would no doubt support making English the official US language...

KrazyHorse · July 19, 2003, 11:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx

Are you kiddin'? That IS the answer to the country's economic woes! A few expanded (or entirely new) government programs to create some jobs, and voila!

And free speech is for wusses....just listen to the head honcho over there, and never miss a good opportunity to shut up....

-=Vel=-

How does it impact free speech when it applies only to government publications?

KrazyHorse · July 19, 2003, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by TCO
I like ti when we pikc up new words. the French are just ewaseily about stuff like that. I know. There was this ski instructor at Mont Trempblant who wouldn't date me becasue I was English.

Maudit anglais.

:

Boris Godunov · July 19, 2003, 11:33

I just think it's funny that people who are ranting about this--the government making a decision of official language use for practical reasons, as DAVOUT demonstrated--are probably the same folks who gleefully adopted the stupid "Freedom Fries" terminology.

TCO · July 19, 2003, 11:35

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

yay. way to insult others and ignore thier honest ideas!

He was the one who asked what I proposed as a word slection policy. I had already said usage should be the guide not selection. So, I reiterated the point (in case he missed it) and told him to clear his ears out. At this point, we're not even arguing which is right, since he can't seem to follow what I said. IOW, you are blaming the wrong person for ignoring.

Now, if he had progressed to comparing the two concepts and arguing for his over mine that would be fine. And then the discussion would progress naturally. So, to make it simpler for you, blockhead, ignoring an idea is different from arguing over it. Got that, moron?

KrazyHorse · July 19, 2003, 11:35

And TCO, how does this differ from US decisions to use terms they like more in official documents? It may be silly, but it's no sillier than any of the euphemisms you hear from the military...

Drake Tungsten · July 19, 2003, 11:35

Quote:

the government making a decision of official language use for practical reasons

If you really believe this, then you're dumber than I thought you were.

Sava · July 19, 2003, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I just think it's funny that people who are ranting about this--the government making a decision of official language use for practical reasons, as DAVOUT demonstrated--are probably the same folks who gleefully adopted the stupid "Freedom Fries" terminology.

hey man! anti-french morons have to have a cause too you know!