You think Iraq is bad? Look at Chechnya... - Page 2

Az · July 20, 2003, 03:46

But I thought they were trained professionals....

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 03:49

US soldiers are whinier than IDF soldiers.

Because they can afford to be. If and when the ISraelius send p[eople to di in Siberia we'll see how they react.

Giancarlo · July 20, 2003, 03:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
150K.. that's not too much.

Fez: US soldiers are getting killed there daily. They're there for how long, 3 months? and there is already talk of a moral drop? wow.

This talk of a moral drop seem like media overstatement to me.

Israeli Soldiers have also been getting killed daily too.. in the height of the conflict.

Trust me the US know there job better than the Israelis (Sorry) and they will complete it.

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 03:52

Morale drop isn;t media overstatement. US military has now threatende courtmarital for soldiers who criuticise their superiors in front of camera.

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 03:53

They want to go home. I dont;'t blame them.

Az · July 20, 2003, 03:53

Why should we? we excercise our world dominance through the control of the UN, global politics, and the commodites markets.

Seriously, though. If the soldiers don't do it, what's the point of having a professional army anyway? "Bring the boys back home"? Lady, those "boys" are being paid to do what they're doing, not to sit on their collective asses in some military base in the US, and go home every night.

Giancarlo · July 20, 2003, 03:55

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Morale drop isn;t media overstatement. US military has now threatende courtmarital for soldiers who criuticise their superiors in front of camera.

Go take a nap you crazy drunkard.

They signed up for a job and they will have to do it. They are damn professionals and have no right to criticize superiors. I hope they do get court martials.

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 03:56

Getting US sldiers jilled is bad fgor business. You Israels might not appreaciate that since you have no respect for good, God-fearing American lives, but civilised countries don't want to see their soldires killed, even if they are bolunterrs,

LaRusso · July 20, 2003, 03:56

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
But it must really suck to live in Russia and hear about 8 troops getting killed on Thursday in Chechnya, a speck of a province...

It's got to be demoralizing. Do the Russian defense forces not have as good of force protection methods as the American troops, or is it just that the Chechnyans are more skilled fighters than the current crop of dead enders in Iraq?

well you can apply an economic analysis of war (akin to economics of law)
two soldiers of 101st division cost more (in terms of training ) than those 8 Russians
alternatively, Iraq is flat as a pan.
in any case, this is more guerilla resistance than i have expected. arabs never fought properly in the field, but this really looks like a proper guerilla war.

Az · July 20, 2003, 03:56

Quote:

They signed up for a job and they will have to do it. They are damn professionals and have no right to criticize superiors. I hope they do get court martials.

Now now, Fez. they do have the right to think whatever they wanted. I agree with the general point, though.

Giancarlo · July 20, 2003, 03:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel

Quote:

They signed up for a job and they will have to do it. They are damn professionals and have no right to criticize superiors. I hope they do get court martials.

Now now, Fez. they do have the right to think whatever they wanted. I agree with the general point, though.

They can disagree but they should keep it to themselves and not bring it up the news in front a camera telling their names!

I think Morale is still high... but that is my opinion and I think the media is full of liars. I never trust it.

Az · July 20, 2003, 03:59

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Getting US sldiers jilled is bad fgor business. You Israels might not appreaciate that since you have no respect for good, God-fearing American lives, but civilised countries don't want to see their soldires killed, even if they are bolunterrs,

First of all, they're NOT volounteers. they're paid professionals. Now I OBVIOUSLY can see why wouldn't they want to get killed, or even be there. Du-h!!!But that's their job. They signed for it....

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 04:00

WQhertehr or not the soldiers hae right to opinion the fact is that the DoD ahs had to threatesn punishment to shut the soldiers' mouths. That's not a good sign.

Az · July 20, 2003, 04:01

I agree with that.

Giancarlo · July 20, 2003, 04:01

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
WQhertehr or not the soldiers hae right to opinion the fact is that the DoD ahs had to threatesn punishment to shut the soldiers' mouths. That's not a good sign.

They are professionals and get paid for this. Damn it krazyhorse... it doesn't matter. There are several ethics in the military they must follow!

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 04:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel

First of all, they're NOT volounteers. they're paid professionals. Now I OBVIOUSLY can see why wouldn't they want to get killed, or even be there. Du-h!!!But that's their job. They signed for it....

Stop laughing at my God-feauring comment. That's the sort of thin g you actuoally see on American TV. I'm getting another freezie.

Az · July 20, 2003, 04:07

really?! I think my entire life to this point was rather sheltered.

KrazyHorse · July 20, 2003, 04:07

You don't get US TV stations straight from thate source like I do.

Az · July 20, 2003, 04:49

Giancarlo · July 20, 2003, 06:30

I heard Poland and other nations are preparing to send 10,000 troops soon... first regiments of a polish division have arrived in Iraq already to ease pressure on the US forces.

And India will go when there is UN endorsement.

Nubclear · July 20, 2003, 07:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
I heard Poland and other nations are preparing to send 10,000 troops soon... first regiments of a polish division have arrived in Iraq already to ease pressure on the US forces.

And India will go when there is UN endorsement.

The military superpower of Poland?

Had to know that was coming.

Pekka · July 20, 2003, 08:09

Well..we get news from that area almost daily. Choppers gets downed all the time, mi-8s packed with officers etc.
They are skilled guerilla fighters, and have lots of experience. And it has gotten to a level where it is personal, since they both are doing war crimes at record pace. Yet peace activists are not very loud about that.. I wonder why.

Az · July 20, 2003, 08:18

Because that's not bashing the US or Israel.

Pekka · July 20, 2003, 08:18

but I must say, that I'm not on anyones side at this war.
I think Chechnya is right to fight, but they have those separatists, small terrorist groups doing crimes, so it's not like I'm on their side. But they have internal fight for power, lines are not unified, so it won't work in the near future as well. Russians have done so much crap there, that I'm not on their side either. But I understand their frustration, seen few documentaries, so it's not very peachy. Few months of training and then you get to be the fng there and expect to die soon. Not motivating. People lose their minds. Understandable. To me it's a stale mate, a dirty war from both sides and it will never stop until someone intervenes.

They should just kiss and make up.

Pekka · July 20, 2003, 08:21

Azazel, true. Bunch of hypocrites, I think this war really needs to stop. But there is no international outcry. Actually, I could even respect people who would raise their voices, unbiased and demand it to stop. But no...

Pekka · July 20, 2003, 08:22

Maybe I should send few Susie Q's there..

Ok outta here! TIME TO BBQ!

Serb · July 20, 2003, 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Lonestar

Let's be honest, the High water mark for the Red Army was Berlin, '45.

Let's be honest, US army hever had a sinle such high mark during its entire history.

Quote:

They weren't doing to well in the late '70's and '80's in Afghanistan...while at the time the American Military was undergoing a paradigm shift. The American Military went away from "Numbers" and towards "technology and training, training, training, and did we mention training?"

Blah...blah...blah...
Aside your troops in Afghanistan today and who hide their asses in Kabul, Soviet army actually controlled this God damn country during ten years and lost four times less soldiers than Americans lost in Vietnam.

Serb · July 20, 2003, 23:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber
Waits for Serb to remind us how well the war is going

Army is withdrawing. Local Chechen police will handle the situation now. Currently there are about only 20 000 troops.

MichaeltheGreat · July 20, 2003, 23:44

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso

well you can apply an economic analysis of war (akin to economics of law)
two soldiers of 101st division cost more (in terms of training ) than those 8 Russians
alternatively, Iraq is flat as a pan.

Actually, that's a common REMF / civvie (even worse) mistake. Not counting the major terrain, since there's no action there, almost anyplace "flat" has enough variations in it's terrain to provide cover/concealment for small force tactics.

Then there's the urban areas, etc., with their 3D battlefield issues.

Quote:

in any case, this is more guerilla resistance than i have expected. arabs never fought properly in the field, but this really looks like a proper guerilla war.

Not nearly. There's a lot of hardware lying around, and small groups can be opportunistic for quite a while. The ability to coordinate, resupply, etc. hasn't been demonstrated. What they're essentially forcing at this point is a deciding point on just how we handle the local populace in trying to root out these *******s? Do we back away, or do we escalate forcefully, and maybe piss a few more people off?

Serb · July 20, 2003, 23:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Lonestar
Yeah, seriously. The thread title might as well said "Serb! Git yer arse over here!"

So, here I am. What now?