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View Poll Results: Will Unix-based operating systems overtake the M$ Windows monopoly someday?
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Yes, Unix will destroy Windows once and for all!
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11.76% |
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Yes, but Windows will always be around.
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Unix will rule half the market, Windows will rule the other half.
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5.88% |
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No, but Unix will come close.
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11.76% |
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No, but Unix will always be around.
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47.06% |
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No, Micro$uck$ will destroy Unix once and for all!
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July 19, 2003, 19:46
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#31
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Try giving in a little and you'll be a better debater.
For example, I don't really thwart Windows as being utterly destroyed some day; I'm not all negative when it comes to Windows. After all, in the poll I chose the option "Unix will rule half the market; Windows will rule the other half." In other words, I'm very neutral on the issue.
But some people here would just love to see Unix utterly destroyed or never become mainstream, having not a care in the world for the people out there that have different opinions and very different needs. Some people just have this inability to put themselves in the other person's shoes. That I find to be very arrogant! 
Wake up and smell the roses! 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 19:48
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#32
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Deity
Local Time: 01:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Well, Unix should die. I thought everyone thought that way... 
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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July 19, 2003, 19:49
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#33
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Put-down humor, eh? If that's the attitude you're going to use, don't expect a reply from me. 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 19:50
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#34
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
Well, Unix should die. I thought everyone thought that way...
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Wrong.
People use it. People want it.
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 19:53
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#35
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Cloud9
Try giving in a little and you'll be a better debater.
For example, I don't really thwart Windows as being utterly destroyed some day; I'm not all negative when it comes to Windows. After all, in the poll I chose the option "Unix will rule half the market; Windows will rule the other half." In other words, I'm very neutral on the issue.
But some people here would just love to see Unix utterly destroyed or never become mainstream, having not a care in the world for the people out there that have different opinions and very different needs. Some people just have this inability to put themselves in the other person's shoes. That I find to be very arrogant!
Wake up and smell the roses!
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You obviously have no idea who you are talking to.
I do this for a living. I've used just about every freakin' OS on the planet including many flavors of UNIX. I use Linux, UNIX, and Windows at an enterprise level doing very heavy stuff.
1) Linux IS NOT UNIX. SCO, AIX, HP, Solaris, QNX, BSD, those are all UNIX. Linux is a copycat pieced together wannabe UNIX.
2) Of the available OSes available, UNIX is the best OS you can find for a server.
3) Linux is a flaming piece of crap for the desktop. Choos the best tool for the job
1) You put UNIX on your heaviest servers
2) You put BSD on your little helper servers that you have to throw in to help administer things
3) You put more UNIX or Microsoft on your app servers
4) You put Windows on your desktops and Macs for the graphics/marketing/advertising people
Keep Linux the **** out of my shop. 
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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July 19, 2003, 19:53
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#36
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 217
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Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
Well, Unix should die. I thought everyone thought that way...
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Umm... lots of minis and mainframes use Unix. You want your future tax returns, pensions, healthcare plans etc calculated by hand? Or would you rather somebody keyed it into an MS network?
Unix isn't great for home use (lack of games) but it is still vital to the continued health of the economy in general and your personal future is tied up in that, whether you like it or not.
__________________
Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84
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July 19, 2003, 19:54
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#37
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,605
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Cloud9
Put-down humor, eh? If that's the attitude you're going to use, don't expect a reply from me.
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Cloud9
See. I knew you were stuck up.
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Good to see that you haven't changed any in your absence. 
__________________
"For just twenty cents a day, we'll moisten your dreams with man urine." -Space Ghost
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July 19, 2003, 19:54
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#38
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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Oh and use AS/400 for the old farts.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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July 19, 2003, 19:56
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#39
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Originally posted by Ted Striker
You obviously have no idea who you are talking to.
I do this for a living. I've used just about every freakin' OS on the planet including many flavors of UNIX. I use Linux, UNIX, and Windows at an enterprise level doing very heavy stuff.
1) Linux IS NOT UNIX. SCO, AIX, Solaris, QNX, BSD, those are all UNIX. Linux is a copycat pieced together wannabe UNIX.
2) Of the available OSes available, UNIX is the best OS you can find for a server.
3) Linux is a flaming piece of crap for the desktop. Choos the best tool for the job
1) You put UNIX on your heaviest servers
2) You put BSD on your little helper servers that you have to throw in to help administer things
3) You put more UNIX or Microsoft on your app servers
4) You put Windows on your desktops and Macs for the graphics/marketing/advertising people
Keep Linux the **** out of my shop.
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Once again, a bad attitude. Expect no reply. 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 19:57
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#40
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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Cause you have no experience outside of Slashdot. 
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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July 19, 2003, 19:59
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#41
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Deity
Local Time: 01:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Cloud9
Wrong.
People use it. People want it.
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It was a joke in response to your previous post.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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July 19, 2003, 20:00
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#42
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by loinburger
Good to see that you haven't changed any in your absence.
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Haven't changed? Well, I have a changed a little. People change all the time.
My opinions on things have changed somewhat. For example, I don't believe that Noah's Ark has been found anymore (but I still believe that Noah's Ark does exist, or did exist at one time), but that's a whole 'nother thread. 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 20:03
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#43
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ted Striker
Cause you have no experience outside of Slashdot.
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Yet another put-down. Absolutely no comment.
Lighten-up a bit! Calm down. Geez. Some people. 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 20:04
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#44
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by skywalker
It was a joke in response to your previous post.
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o
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 20:21
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#45
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Until I can have a civilized debate with someone, don't expect my participation. If I can't have a civilized debate, I will just avoid the conversation. Insults, flaming, hatred; it's just makes things worse and doesn't solve anything. So if you want to start trouble with me, go pick on somebody your own size. I'm much bigger and wiser than any bully out there, and I'll knock you for a loop (j/k )!
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 20:32
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#46
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 05:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Cloud9
Until I can have a civilized debate with someone, don't expect my participation. If I can't have a civilized debate, I will just avoid the conversation. Insults, flaming, hatred; it's just makes things worse and doesn't solve anything. So if you want to start trouble with me, go pick on somebody your own size. I'm much bigger and wiser than any bully out there, and I'll knock you for a loop (j/k )!
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There are two possibilities:
1. He can't stand the heat of the OT. He should leave and never come back.
2. He has no other arguements.
I'm betting its the second one.
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July 19, 2003, 21:08
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#47
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
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I don't know for sure whether Linux will ever overtake Windows. I suspect it will for economic reasons. A friend of mine manages a reasonably large business and he's thinking of moving everything to Red Hat. I wouldn't call him a digital anarchist, just someone who's fed up of paying MS too much for support.
Why are people complaining about the Linux UIs? They are bad, but then no worse than Windows XP from what I can see.
My prediction is look for it to come on in the business world (esp small business). I doubt whether people will ever be using it to play games on though.
But we shall see my precious...
__________________
Only feebs vote.
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July 19, 2003, 21:10
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#48
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Deity
Local Time: 22:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
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Unix will continue to bumble around, just like Apple will continue to bumble around, but niether will ever be able to challenge Bill.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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July 19, 2003, 21:31
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#49
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Tassadar5000
There are two possibilities:
1. He can't stand the heat of the OT. He should leave and never come back.
2. He has no other arguements.
I'm betting its the second one.
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Can't argue with someone who's not willing to budge.
It's not the OTF. It's the bigots, the bullies, the trolls and the savage beasts of Apolyton that get on my nerves!  
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 21:33
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#50
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 217
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Hmm. Just about everyone who visits OT then.
__________________
Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84
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July 19, 2003, 21:45
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#51
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Cruddy
Hmm. Just about everyone who visits OT then.
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That's what I mean. Apolyton is the perfect place for these thugs.
I respect Ming and the other moderators for the work that they do here; I just wish that they would enforce the rules more. Then the Poly Forums would become a much more civilized destination on the Net.
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 19, 2003, 22:19
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#52
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Local Time: 01:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
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Hmm, why am I the only one who has faith in UNIX?
Actually, I suspect that an open-source BeOS clone is what deserves to end up on top, but Linux will manage it out of sheer stubborness. Windows' decades are numbered.
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July 19, 2003, 23:35
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#53
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by St Leo
Hmm, why am I the only one who has faith in UNIX?
Actually, I suspect that an open-source BeOS clone is what deserves to end up on top, but Linux will manage it out of sheer stubborness.
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I believe that the next version of Mac OS X (Panther) will run on a BeOS filesystem instead of BSD. I could be wrong, though.
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Windows' decades are numbered.
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Yes, exactly. No corporation can stay on top forever. Just look what happened to Ford; there still in business, yes, but they no longer have a monopoly. 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 20, 2003, 00:14
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#54
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Warlord
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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I'm surprised Asher hasn't replied to this thread yet. Looking at his profile, he hasn't posted anything since about 24 hours ago.
Did he get suspended/banned or what? 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 20, 2003, 00:38
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#55
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Emperor
Local Time: 00:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
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no. unices and unix-derived/based/inspired oses won't overtake windows on the desktop, i believe, mainly because of usability issues.
as for the server market, i think it'll approach a balance. most high-powered ones will probably stay using the unices, while a lot of smaller networks will run microsoft.
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B♭3
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July 20, 2003, 00:40
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#56
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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okay, i was too hard on the kid
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"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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July 20, 2003, 07:55
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#57
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King
Local Time: 08:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Shireroth
Posts: 2,792
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(disclaimer: This post is more rambly than it should be, and you're unlikely to find any wisdom by reading it. If I could be bothered to, I would write it again. As it is, you'll just have to cope or not read it at all. But then again, it's not worth much less than the other posts in this thread...)
I can't really answer the question itself directly. I simply am not able to foretell what's going to happen in five, ten, twenty years. I can, however, give some free advice about what's going on in the present and a little bit about what has happened in the past... in fact, I'm going to start with an obscenely simplified account of the history of computing.
In the beginning of what's relevant to this story, there was UNIX. It was pretty close to being free as in beer, and also pretty close to being free as in speech, but both of these aspects were informal - parts of the computing culture, so to say. Then it became several Unixes, many (indeed most, I believe) of them becoming more expensive and proprietary as time went on. In the "end", to be UNIX basically meant that you were expensive, proprietary, slightly broken and subtly incompatible with everything else what called itself UNIX. Then along came MS and MS-DOS and Windows, which were even more proprietary, broken and incompatible with UNIX than UNIX itself, but also cheap. And since DOS and Windows did their job even though they broke every Thursday, people used them because they could afford MS but they couldn't afford UNIX.
Now along have come the BSDs and Linux. The BSDs are all that UNIXen were, except that they're free, open, reliable and compatible with each other. Linux is also free (and not only because of the culture, but also because of the licensing, which binds people legally), open, and reliable in the sense that it doesn't matter if something is broken now since in five minutes some Patagonian high school student will have patched it anyway (whether you will trust the patches of Patagonian high school students is your own choice). Well, except for Red Hat, which is basically making its own new triplet of Linux distros look like old UNIXen in all senses except propriety - Red Hat's new distros are expensive, bound to be broken, and probably will make everything incompatible with them.
I don't trust Red Hat terribly much. I do like them for two things: Being the first to bring a Linux-based OS to the masses, and paying Alan Cox's bills. However, beyond that, they seem to be replicating many of the mistakes that have had a part in diminishing the popularity of UNIX. They're making their main operating system releases really expensive and incompatible with a lot of other things. The Red Hat Linux distribution is basically all but dropped, and its maintenance is being moved to the community; since the technical base of Red Hat Linux is far from even being good (nightmarish package management, complicated configuration), the one thing that this will likely cause is even more suckiness. The company knows that.
So, instead of Red Hat, I'm putting my trust in the "lesser" (in terms of popularity, not merit) Linux vendors and communities. Mandrake is, AFAIK, doing a good job at building workable package management on top of the RPM architecture, and combines cutting-edgeness and desktop usability pretty well. So do some of the myriad other distros. And then there is Debian which is still, IMO, the very best Linux distribution available (even though I don't use it myself). A successful desktop-oriented fork of that, or a miraculous success of the Debian Desktop project, would be one of the best things to ever happen to Linux.
As for the purpose of this thread, I sort of forgot to include that anywhere along the way so I'll just write it up here... continuing this history of mine, Windows is now slightly (but only slightly) less proprietary than before, slightly more expensive than before, and less broken than before. However, it's also a lot more evil than before (*). Linux (non-RH), on the other hand, is unreliably reliable and very incompatible with Windows, but free (unless you use one of the new RH distros, but those should really be counted as UNIXen that are more broken and less proprietary than most) and open. BSD doesn't count since it's dying (but if only more people knew about BSD and used it...). IOW, this situation is similar to the situation in the end of the Great Age of UNIX, but not the same. I intend to keep on sitting and watching (especially as this post would already have been mostly valid in what, 1997 or so?)... and Linuxing with Gentoo  .
(*) I don't mean evil as in "Burn Bill at the stake!" (+5, insightful), I mean evil as in licensing stuff and giving the source code that was supposed to have to be a secret to China, and etc..
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July 20, 2003, 08:56
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#58
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Prince
Local Time: 05:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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I think Linux will overtake MS and Unix, obviously first on servers, especially with the impending release of 2.6.x kernel, which will be superior to even 4.4BSD.
The desktop will be a harder nut to crack, imo 2.6.x will see Linux eat more and more into MS and a couple of years down the road, it could well be an even playing field. 4/5 years from now, I suspect Linux to be very dominent on the desktop, as X is either dumped or severely improved, and projects like KDE and Athene continue to improve and mature.
After that, I believe that the BSD's superiority on the server platform may well force Linux off, perhaps entirely onto the desktop, and after that, who knows? Certainly the possibilities of interpreted OS's with weird and wonderful threading are more open to UNIX based systems, particularly BSD and Linux because they tend to be far far more modular. Maybe even in a number of years, the BSD's will rule the roost, of course, then there's the HURD!!
I think MS has a bright future, but not in operating systems, they should stick to what they do best, namely making software apps. They will possibly have to change their business model to include open sourcing, if not, certainly port apps to *nix platforms.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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July 20, 2003, 09:18
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#59
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King
Local Time: 00:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,794
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--"Why are people complaining about the Linux UIs? They are bad, but then no worse than Windows XP from what I can see."
Mostly because they're used to how it is with Windows, so a different kind of badness strikes them as wrong.
Personally I don't think any of the current OSes had done enough with HID, and that definitely includes Apple. The best bet, when you can get away with it, is CLI. I've never seen a graphical interface I was truly pleased with.
In any case, I think Linux is a long way from challenging Windows on the desktop. There's too much inertia behind Windows, and that's before you take Microsoft's business practices into account.
Still, they've been kind of shooting themselves in the foot lately. A good chunk of the places I know of that are considering more *nix stuff are doing so because of Microsoft's latest licensing scheme.
This will help alleviate the problem above, btw. If more people end up using it at work, they'll get used to the problems of the UI, just like they have with Windows.
On the server end Linux and BSD are going to do pretty well, as they have been. Microsoft may finally be getting its act together with 2003, but they've got a big reputation to live down first. This, of course, is where their "embrace and extend" philosophy will help them, although not until they fix their licensing.
However, I think both ends are in for some major changes in the next few years. The way computing is moving (massive storage, fast networks, multiple processor arrays/grids/clusters) is going to require some pretty fundamental reworks if we want things to scale properly.
Wraith
"Hello. My $NAME is ~inigo-montoya. You killed my process. Prepare to vi."
-- The Unix's Bride
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July 20, 2003, 10:18
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#60
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Prince
Local Time: 08:56
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mingapulco
Posts: 688
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The most important adbantage of Unix is cost. But peer tp peer warez downloader reduce it. Unix will be still needed on servers, but PC users will preffer SmallFlexible windows
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money sqrt evil;
My literacy level are appalling.
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