Scientific Research Goals

Sparrowhawk · July 22, 2003, 01:09

There have been a number of ideas posted as to what research goals our civ should have, but up until now we have been grateful for whatever the hut gods would provide us with. That soon will change, as Invention cannot be far off. Therefore, this poll (and I hope it does not waste anyone's time

) is to establish what our first short term goal shall be (after invention, which is required for all of the options listed). Our science rate is too slow to allow us to not have longer term goals, and we must choose carefully, the children of tomorrow depend upon our decision today.

Explosives - so that we may more quickly build roads between our cities, roads to our enemies, mines for our cities, and

irrigate from the vast water to our cities
Prerequisites that we still need before explosives: Invention, Gunpowder, Metalurgy

Tactics - to provide our Military with the might to trounce our enemies, both with Calvary, and their attack strength, and Alpine Troops, with their mobility on all kinds of terrain (even this god forsaken planet we have been placed upon).
Prerequisites that we still need before Tactics:
Invention, Gunpowder, Metallurgy, Leadership, Democracy, Conscription

Fundamentalism - to eliminate the happiness problems we are currently experiencing, to eliminate the need to provide production support to our armies, to eliminate the corruption and waste, to increase our tax base, and unfortunately to decrease our already horid

Science Rate
Prerequisites that we still need before Fundamentalism:
Invention, Democracy, Conscription

Railroad - to allow our units to move quickly between our cities and fend off attacks from our neighbours, to allow our offensive units to more quickly get to the front lines and aid in the destruction of our enemies
Prerequisites that we still need before Railroad:
Invention, Physics, Steam Engine

Though these are the technologies suggested in the last poll, there may be others that will be suggested, please post them here, and post your reasons, for the consideration of all the people of the Apolytonian Imperium.

Respectively submitted,
/me Science Minister

Ben Kenobi · July 22, 2003, 04:33

With a map this large, explosives get my vote.

We need to stitch an empire, not isolated citystates. With roads, we can concentrate the vast might of athe Apolytonian Imperium.

My second choice would be gunpowder, on the road to Fundamentalism.

Edit:

We need gunpowder to get Explosives in the first place.

Hydey · July 22, 2003, 06:02

@ obi

They all seen so far away

The minister of war longs for the day when engineers build railways for shipping our howies to the front

-Jrabbit · July 22, 2003, 08:43

RR can also be traded/gifted to the AIs, encouraging them to build roads for our military.

But engineers to build it should come first (which also delays Darwin's for our enemies).

In order, we need Explosives, RR, and Fundy. A celebrating fundy with science at zero can be a trading machine, bringing us the military techs faster than our current (pathetic) rate.

Hydey · July 23, 2003, 06:45

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
. A celebrating fundy with science at zero can be a trading machine

I will enjoy seeing this without the building of camels

CannonFodder · July 23, 2003, 12:58

I say explosives then railroad. The map is so huge that our biggest disadvantage is the speed of our units.

MrWhereItsAt · July 23, 2003, 21:16

Well, Explosives at least. It would give excess unhappy pop something very useful to do, and the key to happiness for the unhappy unemployed is of course to force them to work on improvement projects!

cavebear · July 23, 2003, 21:41

Well, *that* has me totally confused!

MrWhereItsAt · July 24, 2003, 04:27

Good. The poor AI will have even less idea what I'm talking about. Misdirection before the invasion - that will work

Ben Kenobi · July 24, 2003, 05:54

Quote:

I will enjoy seeing this without the building of camels

Tithes will help.

We may not be able to get the science bonuses from the caravans, but we can still crank out taxes from a large number of cities coating the map.

Hydey · July 24, 2003, 17:42

I will still enjoy seeing it

Six Thousand Year Old Man · July 24, 2003, 21:16

Fundy all the way.

As it stands, our cities can't grow without happiness from wonders (which we can't build), camels (which we can't harness), or improvements (which we can't afford).

Once we have fundy, we can crank out enough diplomats to steal all the techs we could possibly want.

A large part of our free unit support in Monarchy is being wasted on martial law units. Fundy will free up a lot of shields.

Finally All the other techs will be a LOT more useful once we're in Fundy. Examples:

Explosives will be better in Fundy because we have free unit support for LOTS of engineers, and we will be able to better provide the food because more workers will be working food producing tiles, and not doing elvis impressions to keep the peace.

Tactics will be better in Fundy because we can build 8 Cavalry/Alpines per city with no unit support cost.

Railroad will be better in Fundy because we will be able to provide the engineers/settlers to be build a huge RR network, faster.

Fundy will be better in Fundy because we'll be able to build a lot of cheap Fundamentalist units. Remember, not one of our cities is producing even 10 shields! Unit costs will be lower, and we can rushbuy easier with the 20-shield Fundamentalist as a building block.

Six Thousand Year Old Man · July 24, 2003, 21:21

After typing all that, I posted my vote and saw that I had vigorously lobbied when the issue was already decided, the other way.

I feel like a California Democrat (or a B.C. Tory).

cavebear · July 24, 2003, 21:24

Yet, I still hate being a Fundy government. Maybe it is idealogical. I'd rather go to Communism (even though I don't like that idealogically, either). In practical game terms, Communism is the way for us to go in this game.

Ben Kenobi · July 25, 2003, 05:18

Quote:

Yet, I still hate being a Fundy government. Maybe it is idealogical.

Cavebear:

That's funny. I don't have any ideological problems with a Fundamentalist government.

Maybe it's just those corrupt notions of political liberalism causing you to doubt our destiny.

Hydey · July 25, 2003, 08:02

I disaggree with cavebear

Sparrowhawk · July 25, 2003, 13:27

I disagree with Cavebear

I agree with Hydey

I have no idea what obiwan is saying

cavebear · July 25, 2003, 16:18

Our destiny is communism, not fundamentalism.

Ben Kenobi · July 25, 2003, 21:58

Quote:

Our destiny is communism, not fundamentalism.

Cavebear:

You wouldn't be planning a bloodless coup, now would you.

Sparrowhawk:

Just a bit of roleplaying, that's al.

Hydey · July 26, 2003, 06:45

I still disagree with Cavebear

Sparrowhawk · July 26, 2003, 10:45

Roleplaying is good, it's just you lost me in the verbage.

cavebear · July 26, 2003, 14:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydey
I still disagree with Cavebear

You're just saying that because I was cruel enough to agree with you earlier on a few matters.

atawa · July 27, 2003, 10:46

I think STYOM makes a valid point about the benifits of Fundi. (Although I'm not quite sure about the 'Fundy will be better in Fundy' part

)

But as distances are so big I think there is a need for RR asap. There is nothing I hate more then moving an army for 20+ turns only to find out AI has upgraded defence making our attackers useless

Besides, we only loose the trade from the newly conquered city's as we can rehome our army's there.
( A city with 1 shieldproduction and 4 waste can still support 8 units under Mon)

Hydey · July 28, 2003, 07:08

Quote:

Originally posted by cavebear

You're just saying that because I was cruel enough to agree with you earlier on a few matters.

Stop reminding me

Sparrowhawk · October 25, 2003, 16:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydey

@ obi

They all seen so far away

The minister of war longs for the day when engineers build railways for shipping our howies to the front

Between the fact that our former Minister of War, Hydey has apparently returned to Apolyton, and recent events in the game, I thought I would go back and post our goals from a couple of months ago. While they were indeed far away at the time, we have accomplished them all, and currently have no scientific goals.

Would anyone care to suggest future scientific goals

(though Howies, as Hydey long ago suggested, may not be necessary

) or are all content to attack with Calvary to finish off our opponents?

cavebear · October 25, 2003, 17:10

I would very much like to see us discover Communism so that we can get to Espionage for Spies. Quite frankly, Diplomats are to Spies as Settlers are to Engineers and Horsemen are to Cavalry!

Vet Spies have a 60% chance of taking out a specified destruction (like City Walls). We need them. We ned them greatly. I think they are key to our getting through the numerous cities that remain to be taken.

rjmatsleepers · October 26, 2003, 02:43

Quote:

Originally posted by cavebear

Vet Spies have a 60% chance of taking out a specified destruction (like City Walls).

The GL is ... well great ... and life is short. I think I missed this rather important nugget of knowledge.

Is it a well known fact, a working hypothesis or a rule of thumb?

I assume they have an even higher channce of other specified targets.

RJM at Sleeper's

cavebear · October 26, 2003, 18:29

Well, I checked again and it turns out I was looking at the "Steal Technology" section. There does not appear to be equivalent figures for "Industrial Sabotage". My apologies.

rjmatsleepers · October 27, 2003, 02:44

Quote:

Originally posted by cavebear
Well, I checked again and it turns out I was looking at the "Steal Technology" section. There does not appear to be equivalent figures for "Industrial Sabotage". My apologies.

For what it's worth, my (anecdotal) experience is that the chances seem to be about 1 in 3. However, that still appears to be better than letting the spy choose her own target when the city has a lot of white goods. On the other hand, the chances of being captured seem to rise. So whether to specify the target may depend on how many spys you have and whether it's a one-off or part of a long campaign of bribery.

RJM at Sleeper's

duke o' york · October 27, 2003, 09:24

So your spy's caught trying to destroy the city walls.
So what! We'll just send the next spy along to do it, and keep doing so until one stops rolling snake eyes. It's basically the same as you'd do with dips in ancient combat, but you use up far fewer spies than you would dips.