Policy toward the PUT *discussion thread*

Makahlua · July 23, 2003, 06:15

Opening this for Cap'n Herc

Treaty and some tech trade for sure I think - how will that impact our research rate, though?

Flubber · July 23, 2003, 10:15

I will be pleased to act as envoy within whatever limits that will be placed on me

treaty and trade Aye-- No doc flex but trade anything to them that the borg has-- also send a probe their way and infiltrate their datalinks

Our tech rate-- each new tech will slow our rate of discovery on the NEXT tech researched ( current research is unaffected). Thats why I generally oppose getting techs that are of little immediate use unless it is a necessary precursor to something we REALLY want. For example-- biogenetics is hardly that useful for us .

johndmuller · July 23, 2003, 11:24

Cap'n Flubber - How 'bout these terms?

:

They give us all their tech (except for holding onto some for a bit to moderate our tech costs);
They research whatever we suggest ("Awwkkk!!, . . . 'Poly wanna technician, . . . Awwkkk!!");
Schoolboys' choir singin' dirty pirate songs at Googlie Monument for tourists;
They give us Pieces of Eight on demand;
They give over 25% of their land for the cultivation of xenoweed;
Their Planetary Council votes are our call;
Party every night in Study Hall.

If that's not enough of a challenge for ye, we got plenty more ideahs where those come from.

Cap'n Maki - chances are we gonna have a @!#$@# bad research rate if we have any kinda decent trading activity.

Cap'n Hercules - you thinkin' of finding the eggheads soon wi yer fine nose fer intellect - or d'ya figgure they be xor'ably 'tracted by our obvious need'a sum tutorrin'?
-ahhh, havin' found the

from Cap'n Herc, it comes a little clear'r. There be a a'least one major consideration that could determine our tone wi them, that being whether'er not arr new colony a'(H)M'sBoot be connected to there Cont'nent - they arr also unlikely to be happy to learn o'that, so we may wanna decide if/when/how to reveal that info.

Hercules · July 23, 2003, 16:07

If they bes on th' same piece of land as us then us needs to agree boundaries and all that.
We co-ordinate research so that we can trade Borg' traded tech with them
(suitably disguised as to origin for a while)

The planetary council call/vote issue could be a deal breaker but a good one.

foolish_icarus · July 24, 2003, 02:25

Unless they're very far away, we should probe them until they can't stand it any more and then take em out with help from the borgs. (me damn box o' circuits is completely ****** up, i can't even install SMAX much less run the save

, so if you'd kindly tell me where they are when you find out)

In my view they will be far too dangerous, especially if they cement alliances or get HSA.
my vote's for making em walk the plank midgame or sooner

Quote:

They give us all their tech (except for holding onto some for a bit to moderate our tech costs);
They research whatever we suggest ("Awwkkk!!, . . . 'Poly wanna technician, . . . Awwkkk!!");
Schoolboys' choir singin' dirty pirate songs at Googlie Monument for tourists;
They give us Pieces of Eight on demand;
They give over 25% of their land for the cultivation of xenoweed;
Their Planetary Council votes are our call;
Party every night in Study Hall.

did i miss something that would suggest they would actually agree to these?

Mark123jansen · July 24, 2003, 04:39

Icarus does have a good point, we could easily probe their coastal bases (once found) with probe foils that we could start buying now. with their probe weakness it should be like taking xenodoughnuts from a Hive baby

Flubber · July 24, 2003, 10:24

The first diplomatic exchange has occurred as follows
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Contact between University and P.E.A.C.E.

quote:

Mr. President wrote on 23-07-2003 20:40:
Hello,

As I posted in the thread in the main forum, our factions have come into contact.

Dean Archaic informs me that he has offered a treaty of peace and commerce with your great faction. I would like to propose that, as a gesture of goodwill, we exchange cartographic information (maps), for mutual benefit and better understanding of our new Planet.

Honored Mr President,

We greet you in peace and friendship. I believe a treaty would be in order but our treasure maps are not yet to be made public. Each captain's maps and logs are of great value and are quite extensive. The individual captains provided them to a central authority only with the greatest reluctance and only on the solemn promise that they would not be distributed. We do, after all, have booty stashed across this fine world.

WE are also interested in tech exchange. I will have to contact our capitol to ascertain any techs which I may be able to make available to you.

In the meantime I will consult my government to obtain instructions as to further diplomatic matters

Ambassador flubber

Flubber · July 24, 2003, 10:30

I tried to be non-commital but friendly . . . I want the treaty, for now, for the trade boost.

Overall, I think we should consider

Treaty and tech trade if we can get good techs for ours-- using cyborg techs as suggested as trade bait-- By btrading techs supplied by each, we should be able to stay even in the tech race

Then totally probraping the university IF they have coastal bases--

MY negotiating approach will be to try to get a treaty and trade for techs that are useful-- I feel I have a pretty good sense about that but I will post a poll if they give us any choices as to techs.

johndmuller · July 24, 2003, 11:59

I'm sure you will get fine value for our (and/or the 'Borg's) techs, just try to stay sober and keep you paws off'a the Provost's wife until after the trading's done.

I'm thinkin' we don't need to be talking about meeting the University in the public forum - especially as the Pact won't be official til the Borg accept it again. I don't imagine that you were planning to advertise our Uni connection, but when you started that Ambassador thread in the main forum, it looked like Mr. President of the Uni thought it was addressed to them on the occasion of our contact (and perphaps it was) and so he was a bit too direct in his Hello post - fortunately, he left it a bit vague so only the most paranoid out there will read between the lines (unless you also posted it somewhere else). I'm sure you rememeber that the Borg seemed to have a thing about the Uni, so this contact will not warm their hearts. Anyway, IMhO, the less said about our other contacts, the better. I guess the Borg will notice our treaty with the Uni when we make it (assuming the pact with the Borg stays on track), but they will have to settle for the fact that we only have a treaty with them and the Uni will not know of our contact with the Borg.

As to probing the Uni, we will most likely also have the option of the cheaper (and higher morale due to the CmdCntr) land-based probes (one of which we may want to consider building reasonably soon, but probalby not right away, at Boot to keep our secrets to ourselves).

Hercules · July 24, 2003, 12:15

I hope you've got the intermediate turn by now. The Uni offered a pre-accepted treaty but when I went to see what techs we had that they didn't. (Doc Mobility as it happens and of course Doc. Flex) and back again, their 'accept' offer had disappeared.

Flubber · July 24, 2003, 13:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Hercules
I hope you've got the intermediate turn by now. The Uni offered a pre-accepted treaty but when I went to see what techs we had that they didn't. (Doc Mobility as it happens and of course Doc. Flex) and back again, their 'accept' offer had disappeared.

That will always happen IIRC since to check the tech situation you had to click Offer techs and the game treats that as a counter-offer and therefore automatically drops their acceptance.

johndmuller · July 24, 2003, 17:47

The same sort of thing occurs when there is an Accepted Pact Offer in the box - if you want the Pact right away, you need to click on Accept, rather than Speak Pact, which does a Cap'n Flubber describes for the Treaty.

Hercules · July 24, 2003, 18:44

OK I 'll offer treaty for this turn and we can wait outcome of Ambassador Flubber's negotiations re tech trade.

Flubber · July 25, 2003, 11:07

I have not looked at the turn so can anyone tell me which techs we have that they do not-- I'm assuming I can trade them doc mob and I have no intention of trading doc flex -- Are there any other techs I can dangle??

Hercules · July 25, 2003, 14:11

No at the moment Doc Mob is our only trading tech. We also have Comm frequencies for Miriam, Data Angels and of course the Borg. I don't think they have met the Borg.

I think those comms channels are important to us at this time and not for sale.

Hercules · July 25, 2003, 14:47

Well maybe Miriam. The Human factions would expect the pirates to have made some contact by now with some faction and Miriam would be a useful diversionary ploy to broadcast about.

Just some thoughts.

I can't remember how much ecs the Borg have but say we bought Ind Base from Roze would the Borg be interested in buying it from us. Though I would like to disguise source if possible.

Must check, but didn't Googlie exclude tech from Pod as an option. If so, then a bit difficult to account for source except by revealing that we have contacted another faction.

In the Pact situation at this stage, ie pre planetary council, do our (and theirs if any) diplomatic relations with other factions show up. We can't yet claim to have probed any one because we have only just finished our first party boat. Also Miriam is an unlikely source for Ind Base.

johndmuller · July 26, 2003, 03:03

We could just be straight up with the Borgs (I know, that's unpiratelike, but . . . ) and offer to split the cost with them. 50 P's of E isn't that bad if the Borg step up for the other 50. Ultimately, we might be able to sell/trade the tech again to someone else and get some/all of our share back later. The Borg would of course be getting the next tech that much quicker and we would also benefit from that too.

I understand the temptation to keep some of our activities from the Borg, but they've gotta realize that we are going to be meeting other people soon enough (what size map is this anyway? - We seem to have met 4 other factions within quite a small radius from our territory). Unless there is a lot of ocean up north, the other two factions must have pretty big domains.

Hercules · July 29, 2003, 10:22

Cap'n Flubber sire, What be ye story on the diplomatic front., especially with da University. The turn's coming around again pretty fast. Also on the question of sharing the cost of Ind Base with the Borg.

If we secured that and Ind Econ from the Uni, the Borg could switch to IA and maybe speed their research up a bit.

Flubber · July 29, 2003, 15:49

arr--- I 'aven't ' erd diddly squat since me las' message to 'em-- I aksed 'em to tell me any tech theyr be wilin' to trade

Googlie · August 1, 2003, 00:49

Flubber · August 3, 2003, 10:26

Latest message exchange with the university
---------------------------------------------------------------

RE: ACDG Uni/PEACE Relations

I will have to put forth your proposal to the Peace council of captains but I can give an initial response

pact-- I have no instructions on this point and will start a thread in our private forum

Hive-- I'm not aware of us meeting them-- I've gotten no messages and no mention of a Hive meeting in our forums-- where were these rumors-- was it Kody's cartoon?

Our initial internal discussions on possible tech policy indicated a strong reluctance to trade doc flex-- I will bring your proposal to the council but it would have to be a pretty sweet deal

Maps-- Our treasure maps are considered secret-- feelings on this were very strong as the biggest advantage our faction has is the extensive maps.

I feel like I am a naysayer but the reality is that your proposals ask for our most valuable assets which many inside the council are reluctant to part with.

I understand that I may offer doc mob in trade-- If you have something to trade for that tech we can probably reach a deal. Your other proposals will be brought to council and I'll get back to you
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

Given that Mr. President appears to not be doing much in his capacity as our Foreign Minister, Archaic has asked me to temporarily take his place. This is, hwoever, only a temporary arrangement, which may end at any time.

Anyway, with that out of the way, We'd like to make the following proposal to the PEACE:

- We both sign a Pact of Brotherhood.
- If, as rumours have suggested, the PEACE have met another group of survivors from the Unity disaster, calling themselves 'The Hive', the University will trade Industrial Economics for Doctrine: Mobility and the Hive commlink.
- The PEACE will trade Doctrine: Flexibility in exchange for another University tech (to be negotiated).
- The University and the PEACE will trade maps, with the University possibly throwing in some ECs or another tech as well.

Does that sound acceptable to you, or is there anything you would like revised?

Hercules · August 3, 2003, 16:50

Maybe the PUT would accept Doc. Mob and Miriam's Commlink for Ind Econ.

In my view Doc Flex is still not up for trade. Our maps are definitely not for exchange yet.

Hercules · August 29, 2003, 22:14

Just popping in to note that the PUT ( normally quite diligent) are taking longer to send on the turn (by their terms). So I presume they are in discussions with another faction.

Just thought I'd share that.

Flubber · September 13, 2003, 14:03

New message from the PUT responding to my general offer of friendship

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Honored Ambassador Flubber,

I thank you for your gracious message. The University of Technology has fond memories of our past exchange with the PEACE, and hopes that this trend will continue in the future.

I have spoken with the faculty in the last two days. They have requested that I propose the following transaction:

We are very interested in receiving the commlink frequency for the Cybernetic Consciousness. We are also interested in the Doctrine of Flexibility, which allows the construction of seagoing vessels. In return, we would offer our files on Ethical Calculus and a sizable sum of energy credits to cover your expenses.

Would PEACE be interested in this exchange?

Regards,

Ambassador Sunrise

------------------------------------------------------------

Flubber · September 16, 2003, 12:26

Nobody responded here so I sent the PUT a message indicating that we see commlinks as very valuable and are reticent to sell but we might condsider a " considerable" number of energy credits.

I also rejected ethical calc, telling them we would soon acquire it by other means and asked if they could offer some other techs in trade.

I hated mentioning getting eth calc but they all know we met the cycon. PLus I needed a good reason to reject what looks to be a decent deal . I asked for Gene splicing or another offer-- Hopefully what they tell us will give us a little more info on them.

I hope to essentially stall them for a bit longer but we should trade them flex sooner or later or they might run into the AI and get it that way.

johndmuller · September 17, 2003, 03:01

I thought that was discussed somewhere else, perhaps in the Doc:Flex thread - we need a cross reference system or else fewer overlapping threads (easy to say, anyway).

Hercules · September 17, 2003, 08:50

The PUT currently have the turn. Are they holding it, awaiting an agreement from us for an immediate trade; I hope not.

An interesting thing as you are aware, trading Doc:Flex for Ethical Calc with the PUT in a few years gets us that tech, earlier than with the Cycon.

I wonder if the PUT, because of our brief visits to their territorial waters, think we are to their south. So when they get with Doc: Flex they might explore North, West or East.

We guess they have met the Drones but we won't know until we ourselves contact the Drones. Interesting times (and dangerous, in the sense of losing our near monopoly) for us traders.

johndmuller · September 17, 2003, 18:23

If we are more interested in getting EthicalCalc than we are in delaying the proliferation of Doc:Flex, then we could make the EthicalCalc for Doc:Flex trade with the PUT. It's too bad that Ambas'dor Flubber is so specific about EthicalCalc in his discussions with the Cycon because we might be able to get them to research NonLinear (or HiEnergyChem) instead. Of course, the same may apply to the PUT, but somehow I get the impression that they either already have EthicalCalc or are in the process of researching it.

I don't know who is going to research those military techs, and whoever does may consider us their potential enemy and be reluctant to trade them casually.

Flubber · September 17, 2003, 19:24

Quote:

Originally posted by johndmuller
It's too bad that Ambas'dor Flubber is so specific about EthicalCalc in his discussions with the Cycon because we might be able to get them to research NonLinear (or HiEnergyChem) instead.

I don't know who is going to research those military techs, and whoever does may consider us their potential enemy and be reluctant to trade them casually.

Hmm I thought we wanted ethical calc so we would be on line for GS and restrictions lifting-- I know they are the techs I most want if there is no immediate military threat. If you want, I can accept the deal with the PUT and tell the Cycon that they need to provide us with 2 techs.

I also did think that slowing the proliferation of DOC flex was a goal of ours. Thats why I was tending to stall the trades now without appearing to be stalling.

johndmuller · September 18, 2003, 05:56

No doubt we do want Ethical Calc, but I've seen a fair amount of interest in NonLinear and also HEC. You seem to have been feeling out the PUT on Gene Splicing and we know, I think, that they have Ethical Calc already, so if they don't have GS or anything more desirable than Ethical Calc, then it might make sense to get it from them and try to work with the Cycons to get something else, since we know what their choices will be after Doc:Flex, whether they get it from us or from the AI. They would be Doc: Initiative, Ethical Calculus, Polymorphic SWare, NonLinear Math, High Energy Chemistry and Doc: Loyalty.

The matter of whether or not they would accept our guidance on going for NonLinear or HEC instead of EthicalCalc is problematic, I would imagine, as they probably would want that for themselves, requiring yet another deal - and they are such a delight to negotiate with. Getting both Ethical Calc and one of the others from the Borg also will take a considerable time, their recent claim of 5 years for the next tech notwithstanding (versus the 8 it said when I looked in the latest turn; that is also interesting - and they haven't even gotten the turn yet as of this moment, so it is still 8 in the game, it is 5 only in their negotiations).

So, since the Cycon are still acting like &^%$es, I don't feel real obliged to do our prime shopping in their store.