Are some people just destined to fail?

Pekka · July 28, 2003, 18:31

I'm revealing something very personal, so I hope you don't bash me or take advantage of this in any way, or I'll have to hunt you down and terminate you.

I was asking about my roots, because suddenly I felt a great interest about it. I never really cared, but now I do. I was a bit shocked what I found out. From my mothers side people are pretty succesful, having had high positions on good jobs. Few artists, actually two dancers in the early 1900's, one danced in Paris for some hot shot high class place, and one in... I forget but some other European dancing place, so few artists too.
This was quite nice to find out. Even few cops! My grandfathers dad died fighting the illegal bootleggers during the prohibition. Sad story, however very interesting.

But then to my fathers side... oh man every single man was a criminal of some sort and drunk bastards. Horrible stories most of them, and they have all ended in grave before their time was up. Either drank themselves to death, or some other unfortunate thing happened. Many of them has speant great deal of time in jail too, which is rare here (note: none of these dudes haven't been alive for decades). I've always wondered, why I'm so close to the family in my mothers side.. we're like a big close family. But to my fathers side.. never. And when they meet, they never talk about past times, never. I realized, that my dad hasn't told me much of his past.
But I'm starting to understand... there were several brothers, and they had a very strict home and parents being very religional. I'm sorry if this is boring the hell out of you, stop reading if you don't care

.

But their daddy was a maniac drunk guy. I heard this from my mother, no one has ever talked about it. My father is one of the oldest, and when he was 19, they grouped and kicked the crap out of him, and drove him away from his own home. It was a serious thing, and it happened I THINK in the 50's, so it was a big deal to drive the master out of his own house and kick his ass seriously. But he was abusive drunk, dangerous individual who certainly made a negative impact to the whole family. Anyway, then to the brothers. Half of them are weird drunks with problems. Half of them don't even touch alcohol and have a good life now. My dad is in the sober group. He never was into alcohol, for reasons that you get. But then just today, I found out, that my only male cousin from my fathers side is in trouble. He's always been, but now he was arrested with a gun posession and several other serious things. He was messing with drugs too much and got himself into trouble. Then his dad died, when he fell head first when drunk. He was a total drunkard. So, the genes were no better with my cousin. I don't really know him, only seen him few times in my whole life. I was told though, that he'll be dead in few years if he continues, and no one is able to stop him. Even threatened few of my relatives lives when they tried to intervene, and he really meant it too.

So, I guess this concludes my family introduction. So, how is it possible, that my other side (which I'm close with) is full of successful people, artists, cops etc? and other side is full of criminals and drunks? Are some folks just destined to fail and lose in the game called life?
Also, few of these relatives from my fathers side has never met that I know of, or known each other at all, still drunk and criminal too. Maybe some of them were shooting the border ranger from my familiys other side. Would be kind of ironic.

Crap this got long and uninteresting. Well, answer my question, and you can give some info on your roots and family info? I was genuinely wondering how this is possible!

Zero · July 28, 2003, 18:34

Enviornment

Japher · July 28, 2003, 18:34

Familiar pride...

People long to be accepted into the social standing of their peers, regardless of how good or bad it is. Thus, people will self destruct or people will be come stronger by breaking from those bonds.

Don't be a sell-out!

Why not?

Inverse Icarus · July 28, 2003, 18:35

inferior genetics.

Japher · July 28, 2003, 18:36

Quote:

inferior genetics.

If that's true, you have a 50/50 chance of being screwed Pekka!

SlowwHand · July 28, 2003, 18:36

Neither environment nor heredity decides your success or failure.
What it depends on is your heart and hard work.

Pekka · July 28, 2003, 18:38

Also it was great to find out about it, because my dad never told me anything. I always wondered why he never said anything like 'i love you' or anything to me, never hugged, nothing. He had difficulties to say it to my mom even. I know he cares though, but he has great difficulties showing his emotions.. heh.. sounds like me! Though I'm not THAT bad with it. He never got any. The only thing he got was a fist in his face for his whole life for affection. So, now he is my true champion and hero. He came out of it, had a normal life and provided us very much, never hit me, never REALLY yell me.. yeah. A champion of life. Something no one in his family never did.

Maniac · July 28, 2003, 18:39

Quote:

Neither environment or heredity decides your success or failure.
What it depends on is your heart and hard work.

And if a blind man just wants it hard enough, he can see.

Yeah right.

Inverse Icarus · July 28, 2003, 18:39

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Neither environment or heredity decides your success or failure.
What it depends on is your heart and hard work.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA

Japher · July 28, 2003, 18:40

Sounds like he had to curb all emotions in order to not let the bad ones out...

Pekka · July 28, 2003, 18:41

Japher, nah, I have 99% chance to win. I'm a winner already in m own mind. btw, I don't carry my fathers familys last name. My parents decided that when I was born. Kind of funny don't you think?

I think I got the good sides from both, or at least I'd like to think so. I have the business mind from my fathers side, and the morals from my mothers side, so I make my success legally. I got my gun totings from my dads side, but the backbone from my moms side, so I don't shoot innocent people

. Basically, I'm a bad ass with brains!

.. or then I'm a drunk with dancing skills

Zero · July 28, 2003, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Neither environment or heredity decides your success or failure.
What it depends on is your heart and hard work.

Ur statement is somewhat correct to an extent, but that wasnt the question. The odds of all the relative in pekka's mother side being all successful based on their individual heart and hard work alone?

Lot less than enviornment.

Pekka · July 28, 2003, 18:43

Japher, yeah indeed so. It's so hard, that he has never talked to me about it. Never. Nothing, nada, zip. Even to my mom he has only mentioned few things. The brothers.. they never talk about it, never ever. And they are either unstable drunks with bad habits and nasty personality, or stand up guys who work super hard.

trickey · July 28, 2003, 18:43

Im glad you know about your family's history now, Pekka.

Ecthy · July 28, 2003, 18:43

mix of genes and environment. a bit like gayness.

SlowwHand · July 28, 2003, 18:43

You're a dumbass, Maniac.
And a man without legs can sprout them back, too.

What I'm talking about, and what I think was asked, was what one can become.

Japher · July 28, 2003, 18:45

Quote:

You're a dumbass, Maniac.

Don't hold back there Sloww, tell us what you really mean

Zero · July 28, 2003, 18:45

Pekka, Dont dwell too much on heredity and enviornment and focus on winning! You cant really change much of those anyway (well maybe u can change enviornment, but its too late to change ur childhood enviornment anyway)

Ecthy · July 28, 2003, 18:46

Well, Sloww has a point, as you can see if you mix it with my post.

A gay man can bonk a lady if he really wants to

Cruddy · July 28, 2003, 18:48

I would say most people make their own destiny.

If you believe your are a failure, there's no hope etc, then it's true for you. If you don't believe that crap and spend every effort to raise yourself, you will. Not by much... but water naturally flows downhill, so it takes a lot of work just to stay on the level.

As for my family, mostly a quiet, respectable if humble bunch. OK, paternal grandfather was apparently a drunk who walked out early in the marriage - as I never met him, I doubt I missed much.

Immediate family were all introduced to alcohol at an early age (Christmas's and special occasions only) so it wasn't really the fixation that many young Brits find it. As for drugs or violence, I did a fair bit of the former, but at least never injected - I had that much self respect at least. Violence for me is "self defence versus a superiority of numbers". I NEVER pick on individuals unless they are bigger gorrillas than I am and causing trouble.

As for how my family ended up; eldest brother did a Sociology degree and worked with abused children for about 18 years. Burned out now, he's an IT trainer.

2nd oldest brother released 2 albums, worked on several low budget movies, written dozens of scripts, finally did a Drama degree and now teaches.

Oldest sister has recently qualified, going for her Master's I believe, and is a succesful career saleswoman after a rocky divorce.

My nearest sister is happily married, with 2 kids.

And I'm studying for an IT degree, after a wild time partying in my 20s and early 30s.

This genetics thing is bullshit, if my family is anything to go by.

Zero · July 28, 2003, 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand

What I'm talking about, and what I think was asked, was what one can become.

You cant read can you? That wasnt the question Pekka asked. He asked why so many of mothers side was successful while so many of fathers side was not. Not how an individual becomes successful

Zero · July 28, 2003, 18:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Well, Sloww has a point, as you can see if you mix it with my post.

A gay man can bonk a lady if he really wants to

he can try but there an extent to where will alone can go. (i'd say imagining a naked guy while bonking a lady is cheating...

)

SlowwHand · July 28, 2003, 18:49

And your reading comprehension skills are dismal, Zero.
That's exactly what I answered.

Zero · July 28, 2003, 18:51

ummmmmmmmmmm no

Maniac · July 28, 2003, 18:52

Quote:

What I'm talking about, and what I think was asked, was what one can become.

So you think your genes (eg your natural intelligence or strength) or your environment (eg whether you were born in Liberia or as the son of the US president) doesn't influence what one can become?

Pekka · July 28, 2003, 18:53

Zero, nah absolutely nothing to dwell about. I just really learned the whole story some time ago. I'm not worried in the least bit! But I'm not proud of my dads side of family. But I'm not ashamed either. They just are, and they must have done something good too.. I think.

And no, I'm not tlaking about am I going to fail. That's not the question, I was just wondering how the hell could they all be such crooks! That's what I'm wondering about. In the early 1900s especially! Man they were like a gang.

And I'm nto complaining anything, I just find this interesting

.

Ecthy · July 28, 2003, 18:53

Bush could become US president despite being a dumbarse, a chimp and a former alcoholic AT A TIME.

That says it all. That and he was and still is part of one of the most powerful families. So it's genes. In a way

Kidicious · July 28, 2003, 18:54

Any degenerate has a chance to be a success in the capitalist system. It's all luck.

SlowwHand · July 28, 2003, 18:54

A Liberian can't run for U.S. President, but that's another ignorant example.

Japher · July 28, 2003, 18:55

Quote:

So, how is it possible, that my other side (which I'm close with) is full of successful people, artists, cops etc? and other side is full of criminals and drunks? Are some folks just destined to fail and lose in the game called life?

He actually asked three questions. Two of which are one in the same.

Why is one side of his familly successful and the other is not over generations?

and

Are some people just destined to fail?

I think you both (Zero and Sloww) answered only one of these questions.