Help! How to survive without iron

SIV · July 29, 2003, 12:23

This is my first time (in higher levels) I have to learn how to live without iron.

I had a very bad starting position, and since I can't play early game to well, I'm now small and weak. I didn't manage to build any of the ancient wonders.
It is the dawn of the second age and I have no iron even near my teritory - the closest source is deep inside the lands of the evil Aztecs.
The Aztecs are huge and strong, they have both iron and horses and soon they'll have chivalry as well.

So fighting my way to the iron is impossible, trade is also not practical because of the distance, jungles and bad AI road network.
I thought maybe I'll get lucky and discover saltpepper in my land, so I'm taking the engineering path for cavalary. (and longbowmen in the way)
That means I'll miss all the hapiness wonders and be behins in techs (won't be able to build unis - education)

I would like some advice on this matter: military, techs, anything. Thanks

vmxa1 · July 29, 2003, 12:41

First thought is to start over. Second thought is what is the level of the game, what civ are you.
Can you post a save?

SIV · July 29, 2003, 12:53

Ok. thanks for the quick answer!
It's not that high, regent, but only my third game at this level. I decided to choose another civ instead of my favorite Persians, I'm playing the French this time.
Can't add a save, maybe a screenshot whould help:

Solomwi · July 29, 2003, 13:56

I can't really tell a whole lot from the screenshot (except that you need to get a city over next to that incense source), but you're taking the best route, imo. If I find myself hampered by lack of a resource in any age, and can't take one from somebody, my first instinct is to cross my fingers make that age as short as possible, i.e. get some Cavalry. They single-handedly put an end to the Iron Age, at which point the major danger for you has passed. Don't forget, though, as soon as you have Cavs to go get some Iron! You'll need it for factories.

statusperfect · July 29, 2003, 13:58

You'll do fine with horsemen and archers until your enemies get pikemen.

SIV · July 29, 2003, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by statusperfect
You'll do fine with horsemen and archers until your enemies get pikemen.

Well, that's the problem...I've done fine until then but until my units cross the German jungels...the Aztecs will have not only pikemen but knights.

CerberusIV · July 29, 2003, 15:32

Several thoughts.

Do not build cities where there is coast or sea within the city radius unless the city is right on the coast so you can build a harbour to get the extra food from the tiles.

Iron - Cavalry is one option. The other is to go for Astronomy/Navigation and see if there is an island somewhere you can colonise that has iron. You need to expand your civ and founding more cities on terrain where other resources may show up can be a wise investment.

It looks like your early expansion needs to be more aggressive. At regent with an industrious civ you should have left the AI's for dead unless your capital is on really poor terrain. Check out some of the strategy threads on the early game.

Go for invention and gunpowder and trade techs aggressively with the AI's.

vmxa1 · July 29, 2003, 16:45

It looks like you have a lot of pink land with few cities in them. A few more citis tighly packed would hav elet you crank out horses to take down some of these AI cities.
The land in the shot is very crappy as it has no land worth mining. You need shields to build.
You need the land that the Germans are holding near you. Massive horse run is the ticket, but you may have missed you window.
You can not be way behind in theland grab, unless you have superior land, that is lots of grass and shields and resources.

Panag · July 29, 2003, 16:56

hi ,

SIV , can you attach a save , so we can help you more , ......

have a nice day

Sheik · July 29, 2003, 21:04

Looks like your chances of getting saltpeter are fairly good, but you never know, I have heard of games were there was only one source or no source of coal, so cross your fingers.

SIV · July 29, 2003, 23:48

Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)

bobbo008 · July 30, 2003, 00:00

well, if you're taking a different tech route, you can make a lot of money/techs off the techs you do know since not many/any AI civs will have them, thats a start...

vmxa1 · July 30, 2003, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by SIV
Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)

It looks like you have one large land mass, so I would not care for the GL all that much.
Free barracks is always a good thing as Vets are much better than regulars. Not to mention fast healing.

georges bonbon · July 30, 2003, 07:30

Playing on Emperor level with such a bad starting position is not for me.

Get to grips with a good starting position on the higher levels.

Panag · July 30, 2003, 09:50

Quote:

Originally posted by SIV
Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)

hi ,

explore , that should give you maps that other civs hopefully dont have yet and give you all the money you need to rush them barracks , ......

have a nice day

SIV · July 30, 2003, 12:16

OK. thanks for the help. Now waht about warfare:
I played a few turns and got some german land.
I've been building a road network towards the Aztecs (for troops ofcourse, not silly trade

)

I'll have longbowmen soon, and I used them in war only one time before.
Are they any good in a war against pikemen/swordsmen/horsemen and if so, how to use them? I guess I must defend them with spermen...

statusperfect · July 30, 2003, 13:21

keep yourself to high terrain

bring some horsemen with you to attack weakened knights, it will pay off in the long run (horseman = 30 shields, knight = 70 shields)

Panag · July 30, 2003, 18:50

Quote:

Originally posted by SIV
OK. thanks for the help. Now waht about warfare:
I played a few turns and got some german land.
I've been building a road network towards the Aztecs (for troops ofcourse, not silly trade

)

I'll have longbowmen soon, and I used them in war only one time before.
Are they any good in a war against pikemen/swordsmen/horsemen and if so, how to use them? I guess I must defend them with spermen...

hi ,

, SIV , can you post a save or a couple of screenshots , ......

yes longbow men can be great , but it depends how and where you use them , ..... dont start to go after pikeman fortified in woods on the other side of a riverbank , .....

except if you have large stacks of them , ......

have a nice day

flipside · July 30, 2003, 20:57

-

SIV · July 31, 2003, 12:25

Thanks agian for the advice!
I used some of it to expand and launch a small longbowmen+horsemen campaign against the Aztecs.
I took a few cities, got 2 leaders (one for the FP) and even entered a golden age (found 1 saltpepper BTW) while using the usless 3 attack of the musketeer

I still haven't got iron and I'm not a "winner" yet...but the cavalary age is going to change all that