Thread Tools
Old July 29, 2003, 12:23   #1
SIV
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Help! How to survive without iron
This is my first time (in higher levels) I have to learn how to live without iron.

I had a very bad starting position, and since I can't play early game to well, I'm now small and weak. I didn't manage to build any of the ancient wonders.
It is the dawn of the second age and I have no iron even near my teritory - the closest source is deep inside the lands of the evil Aztecs.
The Aztecs are huge and strong, they have both iron and horses and soon they'll have chivalry as well.
So fighting my way to the iron is impossible, trade is also not practical because of the distance, jungles and bad AI road network.
I thought maybe I'll get lucky and discover saltpepper in my land, so I'm taking the engineering path for cavalary. (and longbowmen in the way)
That means I'll miss all the hapiness wonders and be behins in techs (won't be able to build unis - education)

I would like some advice on this matter: military, techs, anything. Thanks
SIV is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 12:41   #2
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
First thought is to start over. Second thought is what is the level of the game, what civ are you.
Can you post a save?
vmxa1 is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 12:53   #3
SIV
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Ok. thanks for the quick answer!
It's not that high, regent, but only my third game at this level. I decided to choose another civ instead of my favorite Persians, I'm playing the French this time.
Can't add a save, maybe a screenshot whould help:
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	france.gif
Views:	210
Size:	209.1 KB
ID:	50587  
SIV is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 13:56   #4
Solomwi
lifer
C3CDG Desolation RowPtWDG2 Monty PythonCiv4 SP Democracy GameApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormC4BtSDG Templars
Emperor
 
Solomwi's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Posts: 3,283
I can't really tell a whole lot from the screenshot (except that you need to get a city over next to that incense source), but you're taking the best route, imo. If I find myself hampered by lack of a resource in any age, and can't take one from somebody, my first instinct is to cross my fingers make that age as short as possible, i.e. get some Cavalry. They single-handedly put an end to the Iron Age, at which point the major danger for you has passed. Don't forget, though, as soon as you have Cavs to go get some Iron! You'll need it for factories.
__________________
"They say if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish...then he has to get a fishing license. But he doesn't have any money, so he has to get a job and enter the social security system. And he has to file taxes, and you're gonna audit the poor son of a ***** because he's not really good at math. You pull the IRS van up to his house and take everything. You take his velvet Elvis and his toothbrush and his penis pump and that all goes up for auction with the burden of proof on you because you forgot to carry the 1. All because you wanted to eat a fish, and you couldn't even cook the fish because you need a permit for an open flame."
- Doug Stanhope
Solomwi is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 13:58   #5
statusperfect
King
 
statusperfect's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,333
You'll do fine with horsemen and archers until your enemies get pikemen.
statusperfect is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 14:10   #6
SIV
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally posted by statusperfect
You'll do fine with horsemen and archers until your enemies get pikemen.
Well, that's the problem...I've done fine until then but until my units cross the German jungels...the Aztecs will have not only pikemen but knights.
SIV is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 15:32   #7
CerberusIV
lifer
C4WDG United Dungeon DwellersC4BtSDG Templars
Emperor
 
CerberusIV's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: on the Emerald Isle
Posts: 5,316
Several thoughts.

Do not build cities where there is coast or sea within the city radius unless the city is right on the coast so you can build a harbour to get the extra food from the tiles.

Iron - Cavalry is one option. The other is to go for Astronomy/Navigation and see if there is an island somewhere you can colonise that has iron. You need to expand your civ and founding more cities on terrain where other resources may show up can be a wise investment.

It looks like your early expansion needs to be more aggressive. At regent with an industrious civ you should have left the AI's for dead unless your capital is on really poor terrain. Check out some of the strategy threads on the early game.

Go for invention and gunpowder and trade techs aggressively with the AI's.
__________________
Never give an AI an even break.
CerberusIV is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 16:45   #8
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
It looks like you have a lot of pink land with few cities in them. A few more citis tighly packed would hav elet you crank out horses to take down some of these AI cities.
The land in the shot is very crappy as it has no land worth mining. You need shields to build.
You need the land that the Germans are holding near you. Massive horse run is the ticket, but you may have missed you window.
You can not be way behind in theland grab, unless you have superior land, that is lots of grass and shields and resources.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 16:56   #9
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
hi ,

SIV , can you attach a save , so we can help you more , ......


have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 21:04   #10
Sheik
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
Sheik's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,088
Looks like your chances of getting saltpeter are fairly good, but you never know, I have heard of games were there was only one source or no source of coal, so cross your fingers.
__________________
For your photo needs:
http://www.canstockphoto.com?r=146

Sell your photos
Sheik is offline  
Old July 29, 2003, 23:48   #11
SIV
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)
SIV is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 00:00   #12
bobbo008
Prince
 
bobbo008's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Wisconsonian Empire
Posts: 635
well, if you're taking a different tech route, you can make a lot of money/techs off the techs you do know since not many/any AI civs will have them, thats a start...
__________________
I use Posturepedic mattresses for a lifetime of temporary relief.
bobbo008 is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 01:32   #13
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Quote:
Originally posted by SIV
Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)
It looks like you have one large land mass, so I would not care for the GL all that much.
Free barracks is always a good thing as Vets are much better than regulars. Not to mention fast healing.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 07:30   #14
georges bonbon
Warlord
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 169
Playing on Emperor level with such a bad starting position is not for me.

Get to grips with a good starting position on the higher levels.
georges bonbon is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 09:50   #15
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by SIV
Now I'm a bit confused...I'm buiding a wonder in Paris...I can try Sun-Tzus in abuot 24 turns (and have a military advantage) or build the Great Lighthouse and explore new, hopfully loaded wih iron, lands. I wonder which is better.
(since I'll have no knights, maybe barracks are not so important)
hi ,

explore , that should give you maps that other civs hopefully dont have yet and give you all the money you need to rush them barracks , ......

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 12:16   #16
SIV
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
OK. thanks for the help. Now waht about warfare:
I played a few turns and got some german land.
I've been building a road network towards the Aztecs (for troops ofcourse, not silly trade )

I'll have longbowmen soon, and I used them in war only one time before.
Are they any good in a war against pikemen/swordsmen/horsemen and if so, how to use them? I guess I must defend them with spermen...
SIV is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 13:21   #17
statusperfect
King
 
statusperfect's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,333
keep yourself to high terrain

bring some horsemen with you to attack weakened knights, it will pay off in the long run (horseman = 30 shields, knight = 70 shields)
statusperfect is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 18:50   #18
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by SIV
OK. thanks for the help. Now waht about warfare:
I played a few turns and got some german land.
I've been building a road network towards the Aztecs (for troops ofcourse, not silly trade )

I'll have longbowmen soon, and I used them in war only one time before.
Are they any good in a war against pikemen/swordsmen/horsemen and if so, how to use them? I guess I must defend them with spermen...
hi ,

, SIV , can you post a save or a couple of screenshots , ......

yes longbow men can be great , but it depends how and where you use them , ..... dont start to go after pikeman fortified in woods on the other side of a riverbank , .....

except if you have large stacks of them , ......

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 20:57   #19
flipside
Warlord
 
Local Time: 07:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 206
-

Last edited by flipside; March 1, 2004 at 20:07.
flipside is offline  
Old July 31, 2003, 12:25   #20
SIV
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 06:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Thanks agian for the advice!
I used some of it to expand and launch a small longbowmen+horsemen campaign against the Aztecs.
I took a few cities, got 2 leaders (one for the FP) and even entered a golden age (found 1 saltpepper BTW) while using the usless 3 attack of the musketeer

I still haven't got iron and I'm not a "winner" yet...but the cavalary age is going to change all that
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	frankland.gif
Views:	51
Size:	188.2 KB
ID:	50735  
SIV is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:31.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team