Civ3 Conquests: Resources

[Brundlefly]

I think 'exotic birds' is a silly idea for a new resource. I have a hard time imagining the people in my civilization becoming less 'war weary' after I distribute cockatoos to the masses...

I think a better resource would be the coca plant / cocaine . You could use that resource to undermine other civilizations by creating black market for illegal drugs there. You could trade multiple quantities of this resource to the same civilization. The 'trade' of cocaine does not represent a formal agreement. It is conducted without sanction of receiving civ. In exchange for the drug, the seller receives a gpt value representing financial drain due to lost productivity of buyer. Buyer civs actual shields productivity takes a small hit and workers are less efficient. Seller civ suffers a reputation hit with all civs when 'trading' this resource. The 'trade' can be cancelled by war or normal trade route interruption.

[BigFurryMonster]

Firaxis wouldn't implement such a non-politically-correct concept.

[Slax]

I would add coffee, as it is one of the most significantly traded commodity now, and for years back.

[Spiffor]

A black-market resource would be a hell to implement in a mere XP. I think the actual effect of such a resource would be to increase happiness and corruption in the targeted Civ, and the selling Civ should make as much money as corruption made this way.

That's a good idea for a future Civ, but a too radical change for an expansion.

[FrostyBoy]

Coffee is a good idea!

[TheArsenal]

"the coca plant / cocaine"

Wow. I imagine that would be a can of worms an all ages civ game wouldn't want to open up.

[Danarchy]

Exotic Birds could be to represent Ostrich and other flightless bird feathers, which were popular during the imperialist age for use in clothing. But parrots, pheasants and such have always been popular trades for royalty, and in more recent times, pets for the masses. But I do kind of agree that something like coffee or chocolate would have made more sense.

But whatever. I have been a fan of luxury resources ever since I figured out how to use them, and more of them means less citizens who hate me.

[bobbo008]

come on, admit that each of you has attempted to get a parrot talking to you in a pet store at least once in your life. now admit it was fun. admit YOU wouldn't mind having your nation at war if you could have that bird talk to you all day.

ADMIT IT.

[Sheik]

I would add coffee, as it is one of the most significantly traded commodity now, and for years back.

Correct me if i'm worng but not only is coffee significantly tarded it is the second most traded product on Earth, only Oil is more traded. Coffee should have been in the original version.

[Vince278]

I thought Civ already had coffee (or am I thinking of CtP?).

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Slax
I would add coffee, as it is one of the most significantly traded commodity now, and for years back.

Absolutely

I'd also add hops, but then we would need breweries

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Vince278
I thought Civ already had coffee (or am I thinking of CtP?).

Civ has furs, incense, dyes, ivory, gems, wines, silks and spices.

No coffee.

[WarpStorm]

Let's just say that Exotic Birds makes sense in context.

[TheArsenal]

Let's just say that Exotic Birds makes sense in context.

Why? Does the XP have zoos?

[Peter Triggs]

I'd also add hops, but then we would need breweries

IIRC, someone once suggested that we add these into CTP2. A city with a brewery gets a significant happiness boost. Great idea, but no-one ever got around to doing it.

[Sheik]

If exotic birds makes sense in context, maybe there are zoos, or maybe there feathers are used in some way? What other uses are there for exotic birds?

[Quasar1011]

Originally posted by Trip

Civ has furs, incense, dyes, ivory, gems, wines, silks and spices.

No coffee.

Unless you mod it.

[Vince278]

I've seen those coffee beans before on a map. If it wasn't Civ3 then it had to be CtP2.

[Tiberius]

But if you are not a big fan of modding and you are playing with standard rules then you still don't have coffee.

Coffee is not that important to me to eliminate some other luxury because of it.

Nevertheless including it within the standard/default luxuries would make sense.

A city with a brewery gets a significant happiness boost.

...and a significant productivity reduction

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by TheArsenal
"the coca plant / cocaine"

Wow. I imagine that would be a can of worms an all ages civ game wouldn't want to open up.

Why not? Are you saying that presenting drugs as a commodity is somehow immoral? Opium has been traded for thousands of years. I'm sure there are examples of other PC games out there that deal with drugs in an irresponsible manner. I think by presenting it in Civ3 you are showing it in a real context. If Civ3 were to have only one black market resource, Opium is probably a better choice than coca plant because it has been used and traded by civs for centuries ...

****

Opium has been responsible for conflicts between nations before, specifically:

The Opium War, also called the Anglo-Chinese War, was the most humiliating defeat China ever suffered. In European history, it is perhaps the most sordid, base, and vicious event in European history, possibly, just possibly, overshadowed by the excesses of the Third Reich in the twentieth century.

By the 1830's, the English had become the major drug-trafficking criminal organization in the world; very few drug cartels of the twentieth century can even touch the England of the early nineteenth century in sheer size of criminality. Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in the early part of the nineteenth century. This trafficing, it should be stressed, was a criminal activity after 1836, but the British traders generously bribed Canton officials in order to keep the opium traffic flowing. The effects on Chinese society were devestating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to aggressively close down the opium dens.

It was Opium that was behind China's ceding of Hong Kong to the British.

[mrboo123]

and... so why add something so un-pc? If you want durgs in the game, then add it!

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by 123john321
and... so why add something so un-pc? If you want durgs in the game, then add it!

Why is it not politically correct? Do you think that someone who is old enough to play Civ3 is not old enough to understand drugs in the historical context that a game like Civ3 would present it in?

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by 123john321
and... so why add something so un-pc? If you want durgs in the game, then add it!

Would the addition of a drug resource in Civ3 somehow inspire you to go out and use drugs? Is that why it's not 'pc'?

If you answered 'yes', then tell me: Since you've started playing Civ3, have you used more spice in your food because Civ3 has a spice resource?

[TheArsenal]

Why not? Are you saying that presenting drugs as a commodity is somehow immoral? Opium has been traded for thousands of years. I'm sure there are examples of other PC games out there that deal with drugs in an irresponsible manner. I think by presenting it in Civ3 you are showing it in a real context. If Civ3 were to have only one black market resource, Opium is probably a better choice than coca plant because it has been used and traded by civs for

No. I personally am placing no moral judgement on which commodities the game uses. What I meant in my brevity was that the addition of certain illegal drugs as a commodity, cocaine in particular, comes weighted with so much baggage, and has such potential to create knee jerk negative reaction from outside interests, that it would - most likely - have to have serious gameplay value to be added. I would venture as well there are games out there that present such drugs more irresponsibly than a civ game would. I would also venture to say it is that very irresponsibility - the "edginess" - that the game centered on.

And I agree, if such a game ever added such a black market commodity, it would probably be opium. Its significance in history goes unquestioned, and importantly, intellectually it feels more removed from the street level user drug. And a degree of removal is important. Much in the way tobacco comes up in games, but I would doubt cigarettes, overwhelming the number one use for tobacco (currently, in any case) ever would.

[BigFurryMonster]

Originally posted by Feephi
Since you've started playing Civ3, have you used more spice in your food because Civ3 has a spice resource?

Yes, and I've now got piles of gems in my house; I bought a Samurai Sword and got me my own submarine.


The point is: Firaxis wouldn't risk putting such a resource in, since it's a politically tricky issue.

[Zord]

Originally posted by Vince278
I've seen those coffee beans before on a map. If it wasn't Civ3 then it had to be CtP2.

They are familiar to me, too... but I have not played CtP2. Maybe Colonization?

[Jon Shafer]

Adding drugs to a civ game would be like adding the "Have Terrorists Fly a Plane into a Building" espionage option... not gonna happen.

[Falconius]

Originally posted by Vince278
I've seen those coffee beans before on a map. If it wasn't Civ3 then it had to be CtP2.

They are in the Civ III Double Your Pleasure mod, along with many others.

[Azeem]

They should definitely add coffee. Give it a +2 Shield bonus - for keeping people awake in the morning!

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hmmm, I think that the real problem is that yes, you can put opiates into the game with the current editor, but the game mechanics do not exist to properly reflect their use, and abuse, in human history!!
One simple possibility would be to allow certain luxuries and resources to give a negative production or commerce value for the square it's situated in! This could then reflect local crime and corruption caused by such 'luxuries'-they would improve happiness, though .
Alternatively, if 'opiates' was required to build an 'improvement' like opium den, then it should have a negative impact on production and commerce! Either directly, through increased corruption, or indirectly, through -'ve commerce and/or production values for the improvement (again, though, more happiness!) The problem, though, is the editor doesn't allow any of this!
What would be better still would be to have the ability, in conquests, to 'ban' certain luxuries and resources-this would prevent you from trading it normally, but would allow you to export it to other nations via a 'black market' (possible 'Small Wonder' which reduces culture and increases corruption?) Trading a banned resource, internally, would increase happiness and decrease war weariness! Export of the resource would increase corruption and decrease culture in the other Civ (if it's also banned there), whilst giving you a steady supply of cash! Of course, if they know you're responsible, then your reputation would also drop significantly amongst nations who have also banned the resource in question. It should be possible, though, for a civ to build an improvement which can lessen, or even prevent, the effect of black-market trade!!
Actually, whilst on the subject of resources. I'm hoping that Conquests will allow a resource to be a bonus, luxury and/or strategic resource AT ONCE!!! I also hope that it will be possible for a resource to be produced by an improvement, and for resources to improve the chance of getting certain techs!!! Just a thought!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker