Harry Turtledove's "The Great War"

Art of War · July 31, 2003, 18:10

this is an alternative history of WW1. You may have seen the book series in book stores.

I had originally had this about 70% complete back in January, then I just stopped making it. Now I'm back, and instead of using the GIGA map, I'm using the same map from Jim Panse's WW1 .scn...excellent scenario, btw.

I'll post the units below....I need someone to help me with a title picture, and I was wondering, Curt, if you could help me. I'll extrapolate more on the whole story of the Great War later on....

curtsibling · July 31, 2003, 18:15

Good scen!
I like Turtledove's paperbacks!

Yup,
I'm up for doing your title gif,
Just PM me with the details!

Palaiologos · July 31, 2003, 18:28

Dude, i downloaded your units.bmp but all it shows is a purple block, not units.

EZRhino · July 31, 2003, 18:57

Strange, it looks fine to me.

Palaiologos · July 31, 2003, 20:06

I just downladed it again, and works fine.
Don't know what happened the first time, perhaps my faulty connection screwd up.

But who cares anyway?

Art of War · August 1, 2003, 00:57

I've attached the readme, it has the background and such.

Art of War · August 1, 2003, 00:58

I attached the Readme for the whole background. Since the GIGA version is gone, I've added the Italians instead...that's Readme v1.0

lord of the mark · August 1, 2003, 13:07

one of the things i didnt like about the great war series, was the apparent assumption that ww1 in europe plays out exactly as in OTL (original time line IE actual history) despite participation of the US in North America and battle of the Atlantic.

Now i'll admit i never even finished the first book, so maybe this changes later on. But as far as I had gotten the western front was the same through the battle of the Marne (explicity) and through January of 1915 (implicitly) Now i understand Canadian troops didnt impact the western front till spring 1915, so i have no problem with that. But he also indicates Brit units in Canada in 1914, which has to impact whats available to the western front. He doesnt identify the brit units, IIRC. He also indicates a free for all battle of the Atlantic - is January 1915 too early for this to impact Britains war fighting ability?

It would be interesting to see how this plays in a scenario. What would be especially interesting would be to start with a conventional WW1 scenario that plays relatively realistically, and then add the american front as defined by turtledove, and see what the impact on the western front is.

our_man · August 1, 2003, 13:48

Good luck with this. I enjoyed the books very much. Scott F was also working on making a Great War scenario, which was shaping up to be a classic before he disappeared.

The last playtest version was posted on the forum a while back, it would be worth taking a few minutes to try to find and download it. Fantastic graphics, excellent tech tree and a decent set of events; it wouldn't do any harm to take a look, and it might give you an idea or two.

Admittedly I'm biased in my judgement by his inclusion of an "Easter Rising" event.

Art of War · August 1, 2003, 14:42

actually, as the story played out, lord of the mark, the Quadruple Alliance (Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman, and America) captured Verdun, along with Alsace-Lorraine...it's a very interesting idea. I also questioned the use of British Troops in the Canadian front, but i think Turtledove just meant that a few crack units were sent, not masses of armies.

our_man: my units aren't the best right now...i'm going to redo alot of stuff with new and better units (mostly the planes). Also, my events are pretty darn good, IMO!

To anyone out there, i may need help on the tech tree a little. I'll d/l scott's files if i find them!

Art of War · August 1, 2003, 14:46

after this, i'm also planning on doing an "American Empire" scenario, that takes place from 1918-1940. I think that's the correct date...i haven't been able to dig out the date that WW2 starts in "The Victorious Opposition" which is his newest book...it starts at the end, and i'm thinking it's either '38, '39, or '40...we'll see, I guess.

lord of the mark · August 1, 2003, 15:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Art of War
actually, as the story played out, lord of the mark, the Quadruple Alliance (Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman, and America) captured Verdun, along with Alsace-Lorraine...it's a very interesting idea. I also questioned the use of British Troops in the Canadian front, but i think Turtledove just meant that a few crack units were sent, not masses of armies.

our_man: my units aren't the best right now...i'm going to redo alot of stuff with new and better units (mostly the planes). Also, my events are pretty darn good, IMO!

To anyone out there, i may need help on the tech tree a little. I'll d/l scott's files if i find them!

So did the battle of Verdun take place in 1916, as in OTL? Any departures from OTL in european theater before summer 1916?

Art of War · August 2, 2003, 16:25

Well, in the alternate timeline, the war ends in late 1917, instead of late 1918. The german capture of verdun (in the third book, i think) leads to that, so it is either late 1916 or early 1917.

Palaiologos · August 2, 2003, 19:00

I've never read this man's books, but reallistically speaking the capture or not of verdun would have had little impact on the war itself.
Verdun was intended to be an attrition battle by the Germans.They had estimated that the current killing rate was in they favour, since they were losing about the same number of men as the french but they had more manpower to draw upon.

Art of War · August 2, 2003, 22:10

I think the uprisings in the French Army in the books are also much more severe than they were in OTL.

EmuGod · August 3, 2003, 17:32

I never really managed to get into "American Front", I only finished "How Few Remain". How about making the scenario begin before WW1 to allow the players to deviate from the specific alliances set out if they want to? That will give more freedom and certainly make the game more interesting.

Art of War · August 3, 2003, 18:54

I may just make an "open season" version, but right now I've got everything set up for the way the books flow, so I'm not going to deviate right now...I probably WILL make an open season so you can play however you please.

Art of War · August 3, 2003, 21:03

I have a question: I used events to make four transports appear at the bottom of the map, and they'd be headed for England. How do I make it so that they are carrying alot of trucks w/food in them? Is there a way to do that?

our_man · August 3, 2003, 21:42

AFAIK there's no way to create a land unit on a sea square (which I take it you're trying to do; i.e. create the trucks on the transports while they're at sea).

Palaiologos · August 3, 2003, 21:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Art of War
I have a question: I used events to make four transports appear at the bottom of the map, and they'd be headed for England. How do I make it so that they are carrying alot of trucks w/food in them? Is there a way to do that?

No.

And you can not even create naval trade units(i.e food caravan-ships), since the AI doesn't recognize them.

Art of War · August 3, 2003, 23:51

dang...anyone have any ideas of how to make food convoys that go from Argentina to England?

Palaiologos · August 4, 2003, 05:30

?

Did that short of thing really happened or is a Turtldove idea?

Anyway i suppose you could pre place the food trade routes in the cities. You see you can create a caravan via events, but you can not be specific on its cargo.

fairline · August 4, 2003, 07:44

Tinned corned beef was (and still is IIRC) a major export from Argentina to Britain. Can't think of too much else that is and Britain is more or less self-sufficient in terms of food production.

Art of War · August 5, 2003, 01:05

can someone refresh my memory..?

I want to make an event that gives a technology..how what do I put in the Prereq boxes so that it makes them only available to one civ?

lord of the mark · August 5, 2003, 09:06

Quote:

Originally posted by EmuGod
I never really managed to get into "American Front", I only finished "How Few Remain". How about making the scenario begin before WW1 to allow the players to deviate from the specific alliances set out if they want to? That will give more freedom and certainly make the game more interesting.

deviate from specific alliances - how unturtledovian

I like "how few remain" more than Great war, but even that was compromised by the implausible alliances/european history.

The whole german-french relationship seems based on the idea that the Franco-Prussian war played out as in OTL. Very well. Why then is there still a tight anglo-French alliance, as in OTL 1860's, but definitely NOT in OTL 1880's? In OTL, the alliance held while Napoleon III was emperor of France, and was considered illegitimate by Russia, Britains strategic rival. Diplomatically isolated France fell back on Britain as its only ally. in 1870 when France fought Prussia, britain did NOT come through for France. That, plus the different post 1870 french politics ( a republic, but run by Catholic royalists) led to the end of the anglo-french alliance. By the time the republic was back in the hands of republicans, France was pursuing colonial gains that set it against Britain.

So I never understood whats happened to France in How Few Remain. Did Britain help France in ATL Franco-Prussian war? If so, was result different? If not, how has the anglo-french alliance been maintained? Is France under Bonaparte? If not how has French politics impacted the British alliance.

The general impression is that Turtledove really didnt think any of this out.

Palaiologos · August 5, 2003, 11:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Art of War
can someone refresh my memory..?

I want to make an event that gives a technology..how what do I put in the Prereq boxes so that it makes them only available to one civ?

Have two Nos as prerequisites.

However if you want that tech leading to something other than units(like another tech, buidings etc) then it is a bit tricky.

It has to have another tech as prerequisite which in turn has another tech that has a No and Nil as prereq.

Art of War · August 5, 2003, 12:52

Quote:

Originally posted by lord of the mark

deviate from specific alliances - how unturtledovian

I like "how few remain" more than Great war, but even that was compromised by the implausible alliances/european history.

The whole german-french relationship seems based on the idea that the Franco-Prussian war played out as in OTL. Very well. Why then is there still a tight anglo-French alliance, as in OTL 1860's, but definitely NOT in OTL 1880's? In OTL, the alliance held while Napoleon III was emperor of France, and was considered illegitimate by Russia, Britains strategic rival. Diplomatically isolated France fell back on Britain as its only ally. in 1870 when France fought Prussia, britain did NOT come through for France. That, plus the different post 1870 french politics ( a republic, but run by Catholic royalists) led to the end of the anglo-french alliance. By the time the republic was back in the hands of republicans, France was pursuing colonial gains that set it against Britain.

So I never understood whats happened to France in How Few Remain. Did Britain help France in ATL Franco-Prussian war? If so, was result different? If not, how has the anglo-french alliance been maintained? Is France under Bonaparte? If not how has French politics impacted the British alliance.

The general impression is that Turtledove really didnt think any of this out.

Well, in How Few Remain, France is under Napolean III's control, I know that....it goes by French Republic, too. I'd guess that Britain DID help in the ATL Franco-Prussian war, but that's just me.

Either way, i hope you'll still enjoy the scenario.

Art of War · August 5, 2003, 18:58

:::HELP:::

i'm making a scenario, and it's been a while since i've worked on one, and I have a problem I can't seem to fix. I have two units, British and French infantry, and I have their tech set up and everyhting...I gave the tech to the Civ I wanted to have it (Entente), but whenever I go to the city, to build some of these troops, they aren't listed as buildable, even though the Entente civ has the right tech.

Oh, and in the Prereq box, I have "Entente Army I" and in Obs. box, I have "No". I changed it to "Nil" in the Obs box, and it didn't seem to change anything...what's wrong?

jim panse · August 5, 2003, 19:00

Maybe you need to give that unit another Flag. For example: If there are too many units with a "defense" flag ("1" in the row where you define the units role) then they won´t be buildable. Just change those flag to something else, e.g. the "Fighter Flag" ("3") or the "Attack Flag ("1").

Hope this helped!

Palaiologos · August 5, 2003, 19:17

Actually i think the problem lies with the Musketeer slot.

DO NOT HAVE A UNIT IN THAT SLOT EVER.

Because as you may have already found out all units with lower stats than the "musketeer" can not be build.
If the "musketeer" is buidable by the civ that is.