Nethack Confession - I can't play archaeologist

[MattyBoy]

In Nethack, I have been trying to succeed with an archaeologist dwarf. I guess I challenge anybody else to get further with this.

I must have started 100 times, played carefully and never survived to experience level 10. Typically I keep the experience level down and take many pets. If I don't reach the bottom of the mines, it is often due to lack of food. If I travel too far down into the main dungeons I get killed due to my inferior fighting ability.

[Tuberski]

I'll have to try that, archaelogists suck.

ACK!

[Nubclear]

Isn't Nethack some sort of game where your a hacker?!

[FrustratedPoet]

Own goal.

Anyway..

What is NetHack?
NetHack is a single player dungeon exploration game that runs on a wide variety of computer systems, with a variety of graphical and text interfaces all using the same game engine. Unlike many other Dungeons & Dragons-inspired games, the emphasis in NetHack is on discovering the detail of the dungeon and not simply killing everything in sight - in fact, killing everything in sight is a good way to die quickly. Each game presents a different landscape - the random number generator provides an essentially unlimited number of variations of the dungeon and its denizens to be discovered by the player in one of a number of characters: you can pick your race, your role, and your gender.

[MattyBoy]

Playing as a dwarf in the mines is frightening. All the gnomes, dwarves and hobbits leave you alone as a friend, while your pets grow into monsters by killing and eating each of the above in turn. The end result is that you get way into the depths of the dungeon with a very weak character and must rely on your pets at every turn. It makes for a very tense game. Add to that, your pets never let you get anything to eat so you finally have to pray your way out of your hunger or start killing unsuspecting miners. If you take the latter path, your god will hate you until you offer enough corpses to assuage him. Of course you have no spare corpses or you wouldn't be hungry.

Always, then end is the same

[General Ludd]

Cannibalistic archeologists? I have to try this game some time.

What version of it would you recomend?

[Urban Ranger]

Eat your pet first, then.

[Jamski]

That makes your god even angrier.

Matty, I thought you were a Nethack god yourself...

-Jam

[Skanky Burns]

Can't you try being an ultra-violent archaeologist?

[MattyBoy]

What version of it would you recomend?

Looks like the latest version is 3.4.1.
I'm still on 3.4.0

Go to this site if you want to know more.
http://www.nethack.org/

That makes your god even angrier.

Absolutely. I wouldn't dare.
And also, my pets are far too powerful for me to kill by the time they get big enough to provide much nutritional value.

Matty, I thought you were a Nethack god yourself...

I thought so once, too, but it is clear that I am a mere mortal.

Can't you try being an ultra-violent archaeologist?

Yes. Only dwarves need to be lawful. I guess I should stop trying dwarf and go in as human, then choose neutral. That will let me go for my life killing all of those dwarves and gnomes.

[Jamski]

You could buy some food -
In Minetown there's a deli
Every single game.

-Jam

[MattyBoy]

Agreed. I think it may be best to visit mine town, pick up as many good items as possible there and on the way (by letting pets kill inhabitants), but not waste any time and not go any deeper than the town (except maybe to take a quick peek at a well lit level or two).

Then, return to the other dungeons without threatening to die from lack of food (for once) and soldier on carefully. With luck I might find an altar in the early levels and pray my way to adequate fighting strength to survive for the next few levels.

The trouble with it all is that I have no good means of attack and defense relative to the level of my character, so I consistently run into tough monsters. Eventually my escape efforts come unstuck and I die.

Anyway, I've talked enough about me now, why don't you talk about me for a while

[MattyBoy]

Never one to miss an opportunity for self-aggrandisement, I have to mention that I just ascended an Archaeologist, albeit a human one. I feel that there is no way I could ever ascend a dwarf archaeologist.


No Points Name Hp [max]
1 6622092 Jack-Val-Hum-Fem-Neu ascended to demigoddess-hood. 529 [543]
2 5426395 Sly-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 578 [583]
3 5408516 Jack-Ran-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 392 [392]
* 4 5157272 Sly-Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 45 [371]
5 4813026 Sly-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha ascended to demigoddess-hood. 279 [404]

(life saved by amulets twice, killed Wiz 6 times, genocided 21 species, never felt as powerful as many other characters have)

[vovan]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Isn't Nethack some sort of game where your a hacker?!

That would be Uplink, also an pretty sweet game, btw.

[Skanky Burns]

Why is dwarf archaeologist harder than human?
I was playing a game before as a dwarven archaeologist.

EDIT: Ah, because dwarves must be lawful, and being neutral allows you to kill others. As you explained the last time I asked this question in this very thread.

[Jamski]

/me applauds Mattyboy *

I still can't even ascend with a Samurai

-Jam

[Skanky Burns]

My best game with a Samurai had me starve to death on level 1 before even finding the stairs down.

[Jamski]

Hmmm... I find Samurais to be the easiest character to play.

-Jam

[MattyBoy]

Thanks,

I still can't even ascend with a Samurai

I think I have never done that either.
I will try it after I give up on my orc rogue attempts.

I have decided that my long term goals are to ascend one of each alignment, one of each race and then maybe one of each character class.

[MattyBoy]

And Jamski, what is stopping you transcending?
How do you typically end up dying?
What monsters cause you the most trouble?
What kinds of armor and weapons do you go for?
Do you find your Str/Dex/Con/Wis max out pretty quickly?
How much do you take advantage of altars?

Skanky:

Why is dwarf archaeologist harder than human?
I was playing a game before as a dwarven archaeologist.

EDIT: Ah, because dwarves must be lawful, and being neutral allows you to kill others. As you explained the last time I asked this question in this very thread.

For me, I rely on the Dwarven Mines for mithril, luck and consumer goods. Secondary treasures include iron shoes, dwarven helm and dwarvish mattock.

None of this works out when you cannot kill all the other inhabitants of the mines. If you let your pets kill all you starve. If you just walk past them all or skip the mines, you miss the good armour and get killed by stronger monsters further down.

Once your level goes up, your weakly-armoured archaelogists soon dies, especially if he is too weak to carry any of the heavier armours in the place of mithril.

[MattyBoy]

Jamski,
one thing that helps a lot is to keep a small log:

e.g:
;, b, h, L, disenchanters wiped out.

You consume homemade black dragon. You feel very firm.
jumpy
You are piously aligned.
You are cold resistant.
You are sleep resistant.
You are poison resistant.
You see invisible.
You are telepathic.
You have automatic searching.
You are invisible to others.
You are stealthy.
You have teleport control.
You are very fast.
You are very lucky.
You have extra luck.
Good luck does not time out for you.
You can not safely pray.
You are SLOW!!!!

Envoy

Scroll of ? is probably taming.

Polymorphing and altar L10 (altars L11 L21)
Up to Vlad's from L39
Wizard is on L40
Spellbooks,orb,candles, candelab is near dn stair on L43
Bottom of mines L12

Level teleporter on L21?, L33, L45, L47
Bottom of all L48

[geeslaka]

Confession: I can't get past level 4. OTOH, I've only played a few hours.

[Jamski]

And Jamski, what is stopping you transcending?

I die before I can get through the elemental planes.

How do you typically end up dying?

I die in sooooo many STUPID ways, like starving, or being stoned, or a cursed scroll, or not noticing that I had so few HPs and getting hammered by a gnome, or any number of silly silly things.

What monsters cause you the most trouble?

Mindflayers (so I try and genocide them) and killer bees for some reason and I had a couple of deaths at a high level from lecrottas, because they are surprisingly FAST.

What kinds of armor and weapons do you go for?

Whatever gives the best AC. I almost always play a fighting character, so heavy armour, shield, boots, helmet - the lot. I like to either use a longsword/katana, and enchant it, or twohanded. Samurai I use both (because I'd be silly not to with a certain artifact) and a bow of course to get those enemies one really shouldn't engage in melee (leprechauns, yellow molds, floating eyes)

Do you find your Str/Dex/Con/Wis max out pretty quickly?

I exercise a lot, and try to seach for things, so pretty fast, yeah.

How much do you take advantage of altars?

I try and find/convert one as soon as possible, and then I trawl the level, eating lowly enemies, and offering the better ones untill my God is really pleased.


Generally I do pretty OK, and I start to think "maybe this time" and then I fall though a pit next to a mindflayer, or get stunned and killed by a gnome

I just have to concentrate more, I guess.

-Jam

[MattyBoy]

> I die before I can get through the elemental planes.

If you are getting to the elemental planes with Amulet you have done all the hard stuff already
and are very close to ascending. You could always copy aside your save file and have a few
practise runs on the planes, because they are great fun and a highly variable experience.

> I die in sooooo many STUPID ways, like starving, or being stoned, or a cursed scroll, or not noticing that I had so few HPs and getting hammered by a gnome, or any number of silly silly things.

Starving in early levels is totally understandable. I occasionally faint in very late levels
when playing too fast to heed the hunger warnings, but this is pretty poor form. I don't really
get stoned any more as I have learnt to be totally paranoid every turn that I have my gloves off.
Otherwise, it is too easy to get blinded and feel what is on the ground and get stoned by a corpse.

I don't read scrolls that could be cursed.

Not noticing my few HPs happens a bit when I have a v strong character and believe I'm invincible.
I guess I have learnt to keep an eye out for monsters that can kill such a character
(baluchiter, mammoth, leucrotta, ettin, air elemental, Archon, angel).
If ever I see them, I concentrate much more until they are dead.
(See below worst monsters that I genocide)

> Mindflayers (so I try and genocide them) and killer bees for some reason and I had a couple of deaths at a high level from lecrottas, because they are surprisingly FAST.

I hate mindflayers worse than all but demiliches. If my first scroll of genocide is not blessed, I genocide disenchanters. After that I only use blessed geno scrolls and genocide in following order: L h ; (then b N c if feeling lazy)

I agree on killer bees (just got a promising young poison res Rogue killed by some). They strike fear into me until I am strong and poison resistant or have a good escape route organised.

I respect leucrottas now and they no longer kill me. I guess I make sure I'm fast by the time I'm seeing monsters like that.

> Whatever gives the best AC...

Sounds like you know more about Samurai weapons than me and your AC approach sounds good. I presume you have tried dragon scale mails? Do you prefer mithril or heavy armor (heavier but better ac)?

> I exercise a lot, and try to seach for things, so pretty fast, yeah.

Sweet.

> I just have to concentrate more, I guess

If you are getting your hands on the amulet from time to time,
you are already playing well enough to ascend and it is simply a matter of time.
At this level the game is totally enjoyable and I won't spoil your fun with any further advice.

I look forward to meeting you in demigod-land



[OT]: I just noticed this in the spoilers.
I love this rule. It is just like in the movies.

+ If you are a Rogue in natural form hitting a fleeing monster, aren't
stuck or using two weapons, and subtotal B is more than one point,
you strike from behind with an additional random damage from 1 to
your experience level.
[/OT]

[Jamski]

you are already playing well enough to ascend

I'd like to think so, but these silly things that happen to me There's a lot of luck involved in an acesnsion, and even more skill. Gotta keep trying, eh?

-Jam

[MattyBoy]

Before you get the amulet, you should dig direct lines between each of the up and down stairs on each level, especially if a level does not allow teleporting. Keep as many teleport items as possible. Once you get the amulet, you run like crazy to escape the wiz with as few encounters as possible.

The simplest workable way to handle a wizard encounter is to drop the amulet whenever he comes near (else he steals it and you have to chase him to get it back) and kill him each time he visits (but see below). Then run as fast as you can to get to the top of the dungeons.

[SPOILER WARNING - not sure if you want to just find out the following for yourself]
I haven't mastered handling the wiz, but ideally you need to avoid killing him as he returns stronger each time. He won't follow you unless you have the amulet, so you need to find a way of getting the amulet onto a different level than the wizard. I think the only way is to entice him away from the upstairs then teleport yourself to the upstairs and climb them before he can get next to you. Then you have the amulet one level higher than the wiz, so you can hide on your level, then go down and visit the wiz and switch a few levels without the amulet so he loses interest in chasing you. Once you feel you have achieved that, go back and find your amulet again and you are on your way. If you master this, you're better than I and you will never see the wizard become too tough.


The absolute top and bottom levels are very similar to one another. They have tough monsters that summon weak monsters. Hence, the trick is to have yourself surrounded by monsters that cannot harm you. Then you can recuperate and prepare to your heart's content. You can wand-teleport away most tough opponents or face them one at a time and kill them. When you want to move you kill one monster at a time and take over the square that they leave behind.

Even better if you can surround yourself with tamed creatures as you can switch places with one of them in a single turn.

The plane of air is the toughest, so if you want hints, read the following bullets:
- Teleport wands can be used to get you out of air elementals, but I think that teleport scrolls are worthless once you are in the planes.
- Energy vortexes give you the only opportunity to recover HPs
- The goal is to survive, not to kill or to gather items. Just get out of there before the Wizard comes or you will need luck to survive.
- speed boots and ring of lev do better than lev boots and any other ring.
- ring of conflict, or sleep/slow/taming can help you escape the toughest opponents.
- throwing things at pursuers while flying sends you in the direction that you want.

[/SPOILERS]

Getting caught by the wizard on air/fire planes is very dangerous, as the summoned monsters are vicious. Your survival depends upon minimising the number of turns you spend on that plane.

[Jamski]

Before you get the amulet, you should dig direct lines between each of the up and down stairs on each level, especially if a level does not allow teleporting.

What a simple but great idea Thanks

-Jam