Is Homosexuality a choice? - Page 2

Boris Godunov · August 3, 2003, 01:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Worthingtons
If , for some reason i had a gene which made me homosexual, it's be a big deal since it would threaten the prolonged existance of my species - Evolution would surely have stamped it out.

1. Homosexuality need not be the result of a single gene, but of several genes working in tandem.
2. Homosexuality could be a recessive trait, thus being passed down even in non-homosexuals (like hair color, eye color, etc).
3. Even if there is no genetic component to homosexuality, that doesn't mean there isn't a biological component, such as hormones.
4. Evolution is not a conscious entity, it doesn't "stamp out" anything. I don't think you know how it works.
5. Even if it did work this way, evolution takes a long time to operate, longer than recorded human history.
6. Homosexuals like myself are both amused and offended by non-homosexuals asserting to know what we feel and how we think. If we tell you we had no choice in the matter, not believing us is insulting. Thinking you know better than we do why we are what we are is insulting, and it's patent bullshit.

There are several theories that homosexuality is not the biological disadvantage you seem to think. It may be a natural method of population control during times of scarcity. One study showed that in post-war Germany, there was a remarkable upsurge in the number of gays, and it could be attributable to stress on the mother during pregnancy triggering some sort of hormonal release that is a natural method of stemming population control, sense in a natural setting, such stress would most likely be scarcity. It isn't conclusive, but it isn't too far-fetched, either.

Finally, consider that every mammalian species has been observed to have members exhibit homosexual behavior. This indicates there are some natural factors at work.

mrmitchell · August 3, 2003, 02:29

Homosexuality is a combination of genes, childhood, and then a bit of personal decision.

Just like everything else.

Jack_www · August 3, 2003, 02:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Worthingtons
Hiya There

I Will choose this thread as the one to formally announce my Return to Apolyton (as starting a new thread would draw attention to the fact that I , an individual actually exist and hence be closed).

I do indeed think that Homosexuality is a Choice, and it will probably attract flames, I fail to see, that with all the perfections in our DNA (Yes, we are a far from perfect race but studying biology makes one aware of just how finely tuned we are in order to 'work') that there could possibly be a flaw in such a black and white issue as Sexuality. A Key Integral of any organism is Reproduction, in Humans this is done via Intercourse between male and female, it's in our genes to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex in order to ensure reproduction takes place. Homosexuality, which would hinder reproduction, would surely then be considered a 'flaw'.

I do not believe that a Race that has been evolving thousands of years could therefore could contain a flaw on such a black and white issue.

THis make sense to me. I agree, we are suppost to be attracted to opposite sex for reproduction. Everything we do is because we choise to do something. But I am not suprised by the poll considering it is poly after all.

Boris Godunov · August 3, 2003, 02:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack_www
THis make sense to me. I agree, we are suppost to be attracted to opposite sex for reproduction.

It makes sense because neither he nor you have a clue as to what you're talking about. See my above post.

Quote:

Everything we do is because we choise to do something. But I am not suprised by the poll considering it is poly after all.

The question isn't about action, it's about attraction. Do homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex? The answer is simply no, they don't choose it, and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of this.

Jack_www · August 3, 2003, 02:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

It makes sense because neither he nor you have a clue as to what you're talking about. See my above post.

The question isn't about action, it's about attraction. Do homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex? The answer is simply no, they don't choose it, and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of this.

Well not everyone has to act on their attractions. But homosexuals most likely by the time they are grown most likely wont be attracted to people of opposite sex ever. But if enough people were homosexual the entire human race could die out. We are designed to have sex with man and woman and to reproduce that way.

Boris Godunov · August 3, 2003, 02:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack_www
Well not everyone has to act on their attractions. But homosexuals most likely by the time they are grown most likely wont be attracted to people of opposite sex ever.

Why shouldn't homosexuals act on their attractions? The second sentence is just meaningless.

Quote:

But if enough people were homosexual the entire human race could die out.

So what? If everyone was a man, then the entire human race would die out. But the homosexual population has consistently remained at about 5-7%, so the human race is clearly not in any danger. You did notice there are about 6 billion people on the planet, right? What does this have to do with choosing attraction again?

Quote:

We are designed to have sex with man and woman and to reproduce that way.

Reproductive sex is designed for males and females, yes. But sex is not confined to reproduction, for heterosexuals or homosexuals. Relationships are not about reproduction, they are about emotional connections and feelings. As stated, there are possible biological reasons why nature might create homosexuals in any given population.

If you're not a homosexual, then kindly move along when the question of "choice" arises. The only people qualified to answer are (surprise) homosexuals.

Solly · August 3, 2003, 02:50

Fez is trolling again.

I've heard it said that homosexuality is like forcing your children to commit suicide.

Boris Godunov · August 3, 2003, 02:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Boddington's
Fez is trolling again.

I've heard it said that homosexuality is like forcing your children to commit suicide.

Man, if only your parents had done so...

mrmitchell · August 3, 2003, 02:55

Homosexuality is just a decision on who to ****. Get over it.

Skanky Burns · August 3, 2003, 02:56

Boris

Solly · August 3, 2003, 02:56

So that you'd have no disagree with your soft liberal view of the world Boris?

Boris Godunov · August 3, 2003, 02:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Boddington's
So that you'd have no disagree with your soft liberal view of the world Boris?

No, so you wouldn't be wasting the precious oxygen the rest of us rely on.

Soft n liberal enough?

Jack_www · August 3, 2003, 02:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Why shouldn't homosexuals act on their attractions? The second sentence is just meaningless.

One example I could think of is a person who strongly believes in a religion that says that homosexuality is wrong and that person feel that he is gay but decides not to act on that attraction. Also alots of people that are not gay and want to wait before their married to have sex dont act on their attractions etheir as well. Or how about priest that never get married?

Quote:

So what? If everyone was a man, then the entire human race would die out. But the homosexual population has consistently remained at about 5-7%, so the human race is clearly not in any danger. You did notice there are about 6 billion people on the planet, right? What does this have to do with choosing attraction again?

I know I was just saying if it happened, I never said it would.

Solly · August 3, 2003, 02:59

It's a genetic flaw, that's about as much as can be said.

mrmitchell · August 3, 2003, 03:02

Quote:

It's a genetic flaw, that's about as much as can be said.

Variation, mind you. A lot of PC bullshit is only bullshit, but there should be no genetic flaws that don't create a lack of anything, only genetic variations.

Solly · August 3, 2003, 03:05

OK, it's a genetic variation. A variation that eliminates the possibly of achieving the main reason why we are here.

[Pathetic voice from background] *but we can adopt!!* [/Pathetic voice from background]

Boris Godunov · August 3, 2003, 03:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack_www
One example I could think of is a person who strongly believes in a religion that says that homosexuality is wrong and that person feel that he is gay but decides not to act on that attraction.

That would be the person's prerogative, of couse, but that by no means is a prescription for those of us who do not share such beliefs. Not acting on an attraction is not the same as not having it. One then has to consider the psychological harm of not ever being able to fulfill one's sexual desires. I don't see it as being a healthy way to live.

Quote:

Also alots of people that are not gay and want to wait before their married to have sex dont act on their attractions etheir as well. Or how about priest that never get married?

I know plenty of gays, including myself, who abstained from sex until first in a serious relationship. Since marriage is denied gays, telling them not to have sex outside of marriage is a wee bit hypocritical.

As for priests...you might be surprised to learn that an strong majority of priests are not celibate. Human nature is a powerful force.

Quote:

I know I was just saying if it happened, I never said it would.

But why? What was the point?

Worthingtons · August 3, 2003, 04:13

Boris , You say i do not know what I am on about, yet talk about a theory that IS far fetched yourself.

Even if , by ascertaining stress levels the human body can deduce scarcity and since embed in genes measures to control the population, making folk gay is an odd to way to do it.

The only way i believe it to be Genetic is in the way different people fancy different looks. Some like small,thin, dainty blondes; others like tall,curvy brunettes ect and some guys will have a tendancy to prefer more masculine type looks.

But overall i think this is a minor factor, early environment factors will play a large influence, and eventually there'll be borderline people who take the final step of choosing homosexuality.

I dont believe in the 100% gay or 100% straight rule. I consider myself straight, but it doesnt mean i have never looked at a bloke and thought him attractive - it just simply doesnt happen often enough to make me analyse further.

Solly · August 3, 2003, 05:06

So that would explain those who fancy butch women and those who fancy girls-looking boys - they are borderline cases?

Whaleboy · August 3, 2003, 06:16

Does it really matter if it is choice or not? To each his own.

I think it is for most people something they cannot help, which does not take anything away from those to whom it is a choice. As far as I'm concerned, people are free to do what they want, its not hurting anyone, as long as people don't chat me up simply because I happen to walk into the wrong club on a saturday night

.

Solly · August 3, 2003, 06:23

"Does it really matter if it is choice or not?"

That's what I was thinking, I suppose it doesn't matter if it is or isn't.

Ben Kenobi · August 3, 2003, 07:13

Quote:

But the homosexual population has consistently remained at about 5-7%, so the human race is clearly not in any danger.

Boris:

News to me.

What happened to the sources claiming 10%?

As for whether people choose to be homosexual, you may not be able to choose whom you are attracted to, you can certainly choose whether you act on these impulses.

Giancarlo · August 3, 2003, 07:18

Quote:

Originally posted by obiwan18

Boris:

News to me.

What happened to the sources claiming 10%?

As for whether people choose to be homosexual, you may not be able to choose whom you are attracted to, you can certainly choose whether you act on these impulses.

So we should live boring and dull lives to fulfill christian rhetoric like your own?

Solly · August 3, 2003, 08:37

Quote:

you can certainly choose whether you act on these impulses.

That is the crucial point about sin here.

Who hasn't been tempted to steal something when no-one was looking..and yet didn't.

FrustratedPoet · August 3, 2003, 08:44

How any straight person could consider themselves qualified to answer this question is beyond me. What the **** would we know about it?

There are a lot of intelligent gay people who visit this forum. If they say that their sexuality is not a matter of choice then how on earth could you argue with them?

Solly · August 3, 2003, 08:52

I don't steal, does that mean I'm not qualified to say that stealing is a choice?

Evil Knevil · August 3, 2003, 09:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
"hypothalamus" is the part of the brain that releases hormones and chemicals that give the feeling of attraction, BTW

Err... no. Don't cite neurochemistry without knowing more about it.

Kuciwalker · August 3, 2003, 10:23

Yes and no.

They don't choose to have homosexual urges. They do choose to act upon them.

Spiffor · August 3, 2003, 10:51

Summary of this post: homosexuality and heterosexuality are partly matter of social pressure and choice.

I think biological factors aren't the only factors explaining homosexuality or lack thereof. One person's attractiveness depends on instinct, but also strongly depends on beauty standards in the society. During the middle ages, fat women were considered attractive because fat was a sign of good health; In some tribe of Ethiopia, these women are considered most attractive.

I also think homo- and heterosexuality isn't a black and white matter, but rather a scale on which people are more or less attracted to the same sex / the other sex. That's why some of our gays started bi. Technically, except for the most extreme people on each scale, most of us could have homosexual attraction as well as heterosexual ones. And technically, most of us could have a sexual relationship with either sex.
However, society makes it difficult. Heteroes are discouraged to look for homosexual adventures, and I suppose such discouragement exists by the homos as well. As such, the utter rejection of one sex or another is a matter of social pressure, and to some extent a matter of choice (choosing between accepting this social pressure or not).

DanielXY · August 3, 2003, 12:09

Homosexuality is clearly not a choice.
I would prefer to be gay instead of being straight. It would make many things so much easier (you wouldnt need to understand girls, understanding guys is easy).
But I dont get atracted to guys in a sexual way. So damnit I have to remain straight, got no choice.

I guess that answers the question...