Thread Tools
Old August 4, 2003, 22:40   #181
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
Indeed, it's a badge of doing the right thing. I'd have been exactly as proud if I saved a baby from drowning in a swimming pool: definitely not something difficult or brave. But the right thing to do.
Ugh! If a mentally retarded man was going to kill family, I'd shoot him, but I wouldn't be PROUD! I just killed someone! It was a necessary evil!

Quote:
I hope some people will read this story, and will understand that abortion can be a great thing, because it can prevent much forseeable misery.
Ugh... Abortion is a last resort, a necessary evil, not simply birth control.

I believe YOU are the barbarian here .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old August 4, 2003, 22:51   #182
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ugh... Abortion is a last resort, a necessary evil, not simply birth control.
I fully agree. Actually, I did go to the drug dealer to get the morning-over pill (40 minutes walking and about 30 minutes waiting for the store to open thankyouverymuch), because when she was alone, she didn't dare to enter the store.
The fact that I had to go there only after being warned of her failure to get it by herself sure belated the ingurgitation of the pill bigtime. I suppose that's why it didn't work.
And no, there has never been anything sexual between us, so I couldn't help to prevent her getting pregnant prior


Quote:
I believe YOU are the barbarian here .
AHAH ! I now have proof that you are brainwashed by FoxNews !
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline  
Old August 4, 2003, 23:52   #183
The Templar
Prince
 
The Templar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: People's Republic of the East Village
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Eh? Why can't a pro-life person not win at the stage 2 argument if the fetus is say 8 months along and declared to be a human being, and by C-section can be taken out of the woman on that instance?

This I don't understand.
Because, you have just described a pro-choice position - i.e. the legal protection of viable fetuses without protecting non-viable fetuses.

Quote:
Oh, and by calling your opponents 'anti-' something, you leave yourself open to the same treatment (ie, any pro-lifer would be definetly justified to refer to you as pro-death).
Most anti-choice people I have met (there are exceptions) are also pro-death penalty. One cannot be pro-life and pro-death penalty simultaneously. Should I call them pro-fetus?
__________________
- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
The Templar is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 00:29   #184
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by The Templar

Most anti-choice people I have met (there are exceptions) are also pro-death penalty. One cannot be pro-life and pro-death penalty simultaneously. Should I call them pro-fetus?
Maybe they're "pro-life until you set your mother on fire and/or blow several 7 year old girls heads off with a shotgun"? Have any fetuses ever done that? Just checking!
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 00:34   #185
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
...by the way, I'm against the death penalty as well - so save your breathe and add another to the "exception".
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 00:44   #186
The Templar
Prince
 
The Templar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: People's Republic of the East Village
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally posted by Zylka
...by the way, I'm against the death penalty as well - so save your breathe and add another to the "exception".
I don't know you. But that is a consistent position.

As for a guy who blows my family away - we've got life in prison for that. As for fetuses, they are infringing on the reproductive rights of women (if the woman does not want the fetus). Unfortunately, if the fetus is non-viable, it wont survive eviction. Do you have a point?
__________________
- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
The Templar is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 00:50   #187
st_swithin
CTP1/2 GODDESS
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 10069
Posts: 198
How far exactly is this going to go? Are there going to be 'zygote rights', and pre-mitotic gamete segregation?

Honestly, if guys were given the right, they'd give a vote to each and every new sperm cell they meiose.
st_swithin is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 00:53   #188
yavoon
Warlord
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally posted by st_swithin
How far exactly is this going to go? Are there going to be 'zygote rights', and pre-mitotic gamete segregation?

Honestly, if guys were given the right, they'd give a vote to each and every new sperm cell they meiose.
nice hyperbole but I think the pro life ppl only consider it after fertilization. since its like the hammer has been started on the clock.
yavoon is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 00:58   #189
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by The Templar

As for a guy who blows my family away - we've got life in prison for that. As for fetuses, they are infringing on the reproductive rights of women (if the woman does not want the fetus). Unfortunately, if the fetus is non-viable, it wont survive eviction. Do you have a point?
My point is - the fetus did not "choose" to create itself, the host did so through carelessness. If the woman did not want the fetus "infringing on her reproductive rights", SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE SPREAD HER LEGS

It's a little too late to decide when the course of action is possibly murder. Do we need to go over the argument a 5th time to get it through your head?
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:01   #190
Apocalypse
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization III Democracy GameCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMMacInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization II MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Apocalypse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,253
Damn right Z, now why aren't you on AIM or ICQ?
__________________
"Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
"At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
"Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
"In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd
Apocalypse is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:07   #191
The Templar
Prince
 
The Templar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: People's Republic of the East Village
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally posted by Zylka


My point is - the fetus did not "choose" to create itself, the host did so through carelessness. If the woman did not want the fetus "infringing on her reproductive rights", SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE SPREAD HER LEGS
This is the dead givaway that you are merely anti-woman. Putting aside the right of women to enjoy sex ...

So what if a woman is raped? She didn't "spread her legs" in that case, but then again, the fetus did not "choose" to create itslef. What then? Force the woman to carry a child that did not result from her choices? Your moral arguments seemed based on choice. Allow the fetus to be "killed" because their was no choice on the part of the woman? Well, that's not really pro-life is it if you honestly care about fetuses ...

Quote:
It's a little too late to decide when the course of action is possibly murder. Do we need to go over the argument a 5th time to get it through your head?
It's not murder. I (1) deny that the fetus is human. (2) even if the fetus were human, a woman's right to contol her body and reproductive capacity would outweigh any rights the fetus would have. How many times do I need to repeat these points before you get them through your head. You have failed to establish fetuses are human, and you have failed to balanc the rights of women. This choice thing doesn't cut it because it fails to adress the right of a woman to control her own body.
__________________
- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
The Templar is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:09   #192
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
I AM ANTI WOMAN

DISCUSSION OVER!!!
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:10   #193
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
Quote:
Originally posted by Zylka
It's a little too late to decide when the course of action is possibly murder. Do we need to go over the argument a 5th time to get it through your head?
Quote:
Originally posted by The Templar
It's not murder. I (1) deny that the fetus is human. (2) even if the fetus were human, a woman's right to contol her body and reproductive capacity would outweigh any rights the fetus would have. How many times do I need to repeat these points before you get them through your head.
Do you now understand what I meant with "pointless debate" ?
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:13   #194
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by The Templar

So what if a woman is raped? She didn't "spread her legs" in that case, but then again, the fetus did not "choose" to create itslef.
So what if you read the entire thread, where I time and again established the fact that we are DEALING WITH MAJORITY ISSUE here - rather than the exceptions? That would have been helpful!

Quote:
It's not murder. I (1) deny that the fetus is human. (2) even if the fetus were human, a woman's right to contol her body and reproductive capacity would outweigh any rights the fetus would have.
1 - Simply because "you said so"? Gee, not even I am arrogant or delusional enough to arrive at the concrete conculsion of whether or not a fetus is always living. Given the significant opinion chance that it is (which you can and have NOT disproved) - YOU DON'T RISK MURDER

2 - In this case - A woman's right to control her body for 9 months after impregnating herself outweighs the rights of life of another. That's wonderful, thanks for coming out.

Last edited by Zylka; August 5, 2003 at 03:04.
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:18   #195
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
And once again, Zylka blatantly ignores the very many circumstances that I cited repeatedly in which a woman can become pregnant even when she didn't intended to (i.e had protected sex / thought she had protected sex).

What I find most stupid is that Z is all 'blame the woman'. Yet apparently, the man shouldn't take responsability. Of course, it is only natural to a man to have recreative sex, while it is only natural to a woman to have reproductive sex I guess
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:22   #196
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
And once again, Zylka blatantly ignores the very many circumstances that I cited repeatedly in which a woman can become pregnant even when she didn't intended to (i.e had protected sex / thought she had protected sex).

What I find most stupid is that Z is all 'blame the woman'. Yet apparently, the man shouldn't take responsability. Of course, it is only natural to a man to have recreative sex, while it is only natural to a woman to have reproductive sex I guess
HEY SPIFF - WHAT PERCENT CHANCE DO THESE CIRCUMSTANCES TOTAL?

HEY SPIFF, AS WELL - DID I NOT SAY THAT I'D LIKE TO TACKLE MAJORITY SITUATION FIRST, BEFORE THE FREAK-FIVE PERCENTILE

HI - WE'RE SPEAKING ENGLISH IN THIS THREAD!
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:24   #197
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

What I find most stupid is that Z is all 'blame the woman'. Yet apparently, the man shouldn't take responsability. Of course, it is only natural to a man to have recreative sex, while it is only natural to a woman to have reproductive sex I guess
Of course the man should take equal responsibility, don't be a f*cking hack putting words in my mouth. Fortunately enough, the man don't have legal choice on whether or not to abort - and is not the primary opinion considered in most cases. Does this make any sense???
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:24   #198
monolith94
Mac
Emperor
 
monolith94's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
Zylka, your feelings on the subject would be exactly the same if you were a woman?
__________________
"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
monolith94 is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:26   #199
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
Zylka, your feelings on the subject would be exactly the same if you were a woman?
How could I ever logically answer that? How could you?
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:29   #200
monolith94
Mac
Emperor
 
monolith94's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
I can answer it easily. Yeah, if I was a woman, my position on abortion would be the same.

My point is, it's alot easier for you to tell someone else what to do, when it's something you're never going to have to really worry about.
__________________
"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
monolith94 is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:30   #201
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Oh. So I, as well as the rest of the world, should sit back gayly and concern ourselves only with the allowance and consequences of our own actions?

What do you call that world, exactly?
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:33   #202
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
I can answer it easily. Yeah, if I was a woman, my position on abortion would be the same.
Sorry - you can't answer that. A different body, brain and set of experiences leads to a different perception. If you believe you have an infinite gauge of response to perception pegged, you must be God.
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:33   #203
st_swithin
CTP1/2 GODDESS
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 10069
Posts: 198
You humans with your silly logic, while Kang and Kodos have each brought a board with a nail in it! KNEEL BEFORE US, PUNY MORTALS!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
st_swithin is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:35   #204
monolith94
Mac
Emperor
 
monolith94's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
"Oh. So I, as well as the rest of the world, should sit back gayly and concern ourselves only with the allowance and consequences of our own actions?
What do you call that world, exactly?"
Heaven

"you must be God."
ding ding ding! give the man a balloon. Don't get semantic on my, you ass, especially considering this seems to me just to be your 'token moral'.
__________________
"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
monolith94 is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:40   #205
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
No buddy. No matter what you say, you can not decide "what you would do" with an entirely different perception. I'm not getting semantic, I'm being realistic.

There will be no "If I was a woman, I would think the same" nor "If I was Hitler - I would have not started the war!". If you were anything but you, you wouldn't be you. If this isn't painfully obvious, I worry dearly for your future.
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:42   #206
st_swithin
CTP1/2 GODDESS
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 10069
Posts: 198
Dog is my copilot.

Bloody 'ell, where are me 'aitches goin'?
st_swithin is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:44   #207
monolith94
Mac
Emperor
 
monolith94's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
You're the one being unrealistic, sacrificing a woman's future so that some hypothetical human comes into a world that doesn't want it. And part of being human is the ability to imagine oneself in another's position. If you can't understand where others come from, their motivations, their hopes, their etcetera, and you can't calculate all that together, I worry for the future.
__________________
"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
monolith94 is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:44   #208
Zylka
Civilization II MultiplayerDiploGamesApolytoners Hall of Fame
King
 
Local Time: 06:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
"Oh. So I, as well as the rest of the world, should sit back gayly and concern ourselves only with the allowance and consequences of our own actions?
What do you call that world, exactly?"

Heaven
Ah. I hear heaven is lovely - with individuals running around (possibly) ruining or destroying existence for countless others (the examples are infinite) - yet it is only for them to decide their own right to do so and whether or not the consequences are other's business.

Semantics hurt, don't they. Furthermore, it looks like logic is the enemy of a sugar puff "the individual is always right, and has unlimited rights" Heaven.
Zylka is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:45   #209
Geronimo
King
 
Geronimo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: st cloud USA
Posts: 2,808
Quote:
Originally posted by Zylka
I AM ANTI WOMAN

DISCUSSION OVER!!!
Well you've certainly alienated me now.
Geronimo is offline  
Old August 5, 2003, 01:47   #210
monolith94
Mac
Emperor
 
monolith94's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:50
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New England
Posts: 3,572
"(possibly)"

__________________
"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
monolith94 is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:50.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team