Any Rail Baron Players here?

[Ming]

It works the other way as well... In 4 person games... the person that gets the PA usually doesn't get one of the big 3 western rails... A good choice then is to buy the NYC and make life miserable for everybody else. Anybody going to Boston, Portland, Albany, Indy or Cleveland is giving you money.

[-Jrabbit]

I gotta admit, I often enjoy that more than getting a NE-SW combo. Plus you get the joy of everyone hating you the rest of the game.

[rah]

Ming never has to worry about that.

[-Jrabbit]

[Ming]

Now be nice

The PA/NYC combo can be very effective in a 4 person game... as long as you don't spend your whole game going to the SW on somebody else's rail.

[rah]

If everyone else is headed to NY and Boston, it doesn't matter where you go.

[-Jrabbit]

Those are usually the games where the one guy who doesn't go NE walks away with it.

[rah]

Unless he's the guy that owns the PA and the NYC

[Paddy]

Great game... thanks for the memories...

[Ming]

It is a great game... too bad they stopped producing it.
You would think that a game that has an annual championship deserves to still be sold... sigh.

[rah]

I've been lucky to find a copy or two after they stopped making it. I may have to search around a bit more.

[Ming]

You won't have much luck. I went looking last Christmas for copies... hit up all the gaming places including a few downtown... no luck.

[rah]

The last place I got one from a couple of years ago still had a couple of copies. They may still have one. It's not one of the places you checked out. We'll see.
And we could always check online.

[Urban Ranger]

While looking for info related game, I found this Government Intervention variant. Enjoy!

[rah]

Very interesting.

[rah]

Has anyone here ever used these rules?
I'd be interested what they thought.

[Ming]

For those too lazy to check out the link...

Government Intervention
in Rail Baron
A Variant for Avalon Hill’s Game of Empire-Building
(Reprinted from The General, vol. 28, no. 3)
by Stephen Taylor, Jim Brown, and Alan Marian

Like most multi-player games. Rail Baron is most enjoyable with five or six players. Our gaming sessions, however, are generally limited to two or three players, so we sought a way to increase the game's competition and interaction. Specifically, we simulated the effect of railroads being purchased by a full complement of players. This simulation of other players is what we term “the Government” in this variant.

Though not strictly an historical variant, there is a basis in fact for the US Government getting into and then out of the railroad business. Consolidated Rail Corporation (Conrail) was created by Federal Law in 1976 from several failing rail line companies. By 1987, it was turned back into a for-profit private corporation with stock offered to the public.

Using this variant, Rail Baron will be more competitive and exciting, particularly when there are fewer players in the game. You can even play this variant with only two players. During the course of the game, the Government will take over railroads (more will be taken over when there are fewer players). Even with just two or three players, a player probably will acquire only six to eight railroads by game’s end. Money management and careful selection of which railroads to buy will determine who wins the game. This is because the price of a railroad can vary from 50% to 150% of the cost stated on the card. To guarantee that you can buy a particular railroad, you must pay a premium price. To get a railroad at half cost, you must take your chances on a random draw and auction.

Use all the standard rules except as noted below. Each variant rule is followed by a brief, italicized explanation of the rationale behind it.

The Home City has no effect on the game except to determine where the Player starts the game. (There is no “rover play” -- see step 8.)


When a player reaches a destination, he may buy an express train for $4,000 or a Superchief for $25,000. There is no change in the Bonus rules. (Lowering the cost makes the Superchief a viable option.)


When a player reaches a destination and after he has decided whether to purchase an express or Superchief, he must select one and only one of the following options:


Buy any one of the bank’s railroads at 1.2 times the price listed on the card. Round off numbers to the next highest $500.


Buy any one railroad owned by the Government at 1.5 times the listed price.


Select a bank’s railroad at random and conduct an auction starting at 50% of the price listed on the card. The active player starts the bidding. If nobody bids on the railroad, the railroad is taken over by the Government. (By having an auction, all players are involved. Selecting a railroad at random adds to the excitement because the players do not know which railroads will come up for bid. Thus, if a player wants a particular railroad, he can take the chance that the railroad will come up for auction and possibly obtain it at half cost. Otherwise, if he is willing to pay the premium, he can assure the purchase of any railroad not owned by another player. Players won't be able to pay the premium very often. By allowing the players to purchase a railroad owned by the Government, no railroad is taken out of the game. Each railroad can be purchased by a player; possibly at a steep price -- but often a key railroad is worth 1.5 times its original cost.)


Whenever the last player reaches a destination, and after step 3 of this variant is conducted, a railroad owned by the bank is selected at random and given to the Government. For example, if there are three players, this step will be conducted only by the third player. (By giving railroads to the Government, the game more quickly reaches the point where user fees go up, and this is when the game gets really exciting. Because only the last player performs this step, it happens more often when there are fewer players. Selecting the railroads at random makes each game different, depending on which railroads go to the Government. It also adds to the tension when a desired railroad may be taken over by the Government in the random draw.)


You do not pay any user’s fee to travel on your own railroad. (Not having to pay $1,000 to use your own railroad simplifies the game. It also makes it advantageous to use your line rather than the bank’s.)


If a player uses a railroad owned by the Government, he must pay a user’s fee of $6,000. The fee increases to $12,000 when the bank runs out of railroads. If using a railroad owned by another player, the fee increases to $10,000 when the bank runs out of railroads. There is no need to keep track of money paid to the Government (the Government cannot win the game). (The player will have to make a tough choice: Use an expensive Government railroad, or use a cheaper railroad owned by an opponent. Sometimes it might pay to use the Government railroad and not give an opponent the additional income.)


If a player cannot pay a user fee, he must sell one or more of his railroads to the Government -- not the bank -- at 50% of the price listed on the card. (This makes the game more competitive because it becomes expensive to take advantage of another player’s misfortune. Sold-off railroads must be purchased from the Government at 1.5 times their normal cost.)


The game ends when a player has $200,000, and the last player has been given the chance to complete his turn. The winner is the player with the most money. (This simplifies the victory conditions by eliminating “rover play” at the end of the game. Also, all players will have the same number of turns at game’s end.)

Between everyone in our group, we’ve played almost every game in the Avalon Hill catalog. Rail Baron is an excellent change of pace and theme, especially with the additional interplay and money-management decisions created by this variant and its simulation of additional players. Now you can have the joy of seeing a crucial railroad transferred to the Government and then having to make the decision of whether to buy it back at 150% of its cost (if you don’t, it may come back owned by another player). This can become a huge factor in winning or losing this fast-paced game.

[-Jrabbit]

After a cursory glance through...

Seems unnecessarily complex. If the 3-player game needs this much work to "fix" it, we should find another game.

Some elements are interesting (govt rails). Others (like the $25K superchief and no home city-based endgame) are stupid.

Randomizing the available rail and holding an auction for it takes away some of the advantage of the superchief. Reaching destinations first becomes meaningless, it's just a game of cashflow.

I can't think of a logical reason why any of these rules make the Home City obsolete. It's a simple race to $200K. I think we would agree that the home city concept is a key element in keeping the game interesting in the late stages.

One goal of this ruleset is to speed the onset of double fees (what the writer calls "the fun part"). But do you see anything that convinces you all the rails will get bought? Me neither.

[rah]

They may not get bought, but if the last person goes to a lot of short destos, the government will own a lot of railroads and may strangle certain regions that might make it necessary to buy the last rail in the area.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
But do you see anything that convinces you all the rails will get bought?

If you don't buy any railway, the government will end up taking all of them and all players will go bankrupt.

[rah]

But since the government can't win, a couple of key rails is probably all you need.

[-Jrabbit]

Finding that tradeoff point is all it will take. A judgment call that will get easier to determine with each successive game.

I wonder what method is used to randomize rails. Shuffling the cards would add a lot of wear/tear to an out-of-print game...

[Urban Ranger]

You can always assign a number to each and roll a die. Say if have 12 rails left, just arrange them in a straight line, call the leftmost one #1, then roll a 12 sider.

[Ming]

I agree that these rules aren't the answer.

So let me pose a question. What rules WOULD make a 3 person game more interesting/exciting.

To insure that rails would be bought, and not end up with what we are doing now, which is only buying a few rails... what changes need to be made.

Having the government or bank own rails that can't be bought is one way to make rails in a region more important. Is it a simple matter of saying...

The following rails are owned by the bank and you must pay the maxium penality for riding on them...
Would it be enough to choose one major rail from each region... maybe two?

[rah]

Maybe if you created 3 or 4 complete rail networks and then rolled a die before each game to determine which network would be owned by the Government. Each network would own one rail in each region and then one additional rail in a specific region. But I do like making the penaly higher for government rails so you would have to decide if it was worth it not to pay a human player.

[Ming]

I like the random nature of your suggestion... so games would be different.

Any other ideas....

[rah]

You could just randomly deal out the rails at the start of the game with the government getting 2 for every one a human player gets. Then give each person 80,000 and let them decide if they want to buy any of the rail they were dealt. Those rails not purchased would go back to the bank. Each person would make there decision private with the government rails not exposed to make it more interesting.
Then play the game out normal.

The games would play much faster and still retain a considerable amount of strategy.

Even if you got dealt the PA NYC and ATS&F, you wouldn't have the money to buy all of them. And you would have to save money for your first desto, since it could already be locked out.

[Urban Ranger]

You can always try Empire Builder

[Ming]

Not a bad idea... but we really like Rail Baron

With four or more people, it's still a very viable game.
We are just having problems with three person games.

[rah]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You can always try Empire Builder

That would require that we actually buy the game.