Do you support an Single European State?

Zulu Elephant · August 8, 2003, 19:07

I'm trying to avoid loaded terms such as ‘superstate’ (I’ve always wondered why people against the EU refer to a ‘European Superstate’ rather than an ‘EU State’ or a ‘single European state – Why does it have to be ‘super’? If anyone’s got any ideas, perhaps they could post them)

Anyway, this is a thread about whether you are for or against the idea of a European Single State (SES) in principle. This means that if you think that you could support calls for a SES so long as the EU became more democratic/decentralised/whatever then you should vote yes in the poll.

I’ve divided the poll into varies areas of the world so as to be able to ascertain whether certain sections are more pro or anti than others. Sorry about the vagueness – I just thought that the first three might hold distinct views.

Solver · August 8, 2003, 19:29

Yes, but:

1. With enough independency for states of that nation. Not another USSR. Maybe like American states, or even more.
2. Emphasis on preserving language and culture of states.
3. Not now. In 30-40 years maybe, not now.

Proteus_MST · August 8, 2003, 19:44

Yes, and like Solver I´d like to have the States within the EU preserve alot of their Independence, of course their Cultural Identity and their Language.
But I hope to see it within the next 20 years, or at least steps taken into this direction.

I think there should be one Foreign Policy in this unified Europa and one Army. Within the Justice and Laws I could imagine some kind of Semi Independence, where the Laws of every single Country should meet certain Prerequisites, but every country also has things, where it alone decides what to do. For example, the EU declares that no Memberstate should have no Death Penalty, but that every Memberstate could decide if Marijuana islegal or illegal (although I think this is just Utopia, as the Drug Policy in every Memberstate should be the same, as a Unified Europe would also mean free trade within its Bprders and therefore it could be very unproductive to have a Drug in one Memberstate legalized whereas it is illegal in another Memberstate).

alva · August 8, 2003, 20:43

More or less the same feeling as the above posters.

Frozzy · August 8, 2003, 20:56

No, not if it is compulsory for all EU members, so I'll choose "No (I'm British)"

If they do merge, I say they adopt a "Home Rule"-esque style of continent. I.E.:

They all have their own government
They send MEPs to Brussels
They have control of Domestic Affairs et al
Brussels controls defence and taxation.

Language et al would differ, but English (as it is the most widely spoken European language) would be compulsory for students in some sense.

Inverse Icarus · August 8, 2003, 21:27

no. to quote my boss, a Vet, "The European Union will never get their act together. Put Germany and France together in a room and there will be some dead Frogs. And the Italians! Oh lord the Italians!"

Sarxis · August 8, 2003, 21:29

Had to go with the banana option, since it doesn't matter to me one bit.

Lord Merciless · August 8, 2003, 22:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Proteus_MST

For example, the EU declares that no Memberstate should have no Death Penalty, but that every Memberstate could decide if Marijuana islegal or illegal (although I think this is just Utopia, as the Drug Policy in every Memberstate should be the same, as a Unified Europe would also mean free trade within its Bprders and therefore it could be very unproductive to have a Drug in one Memberstate legalized whereas it is illegal in another Memberstate).

Even US states have far more independence than your imagined "Semi-independent" states of Europe.

Pekka · August 8, 2003, 22:44

Undecided. Time will tell. It has to have many things happening before I say it's good thing. Time will tell.

JohnT · August 8, 2003, 22:51

Yes, American.

Pekka · August 8, 2003, 22:54

Though this thing can't be rushed in. If it is rushed, I strongly object it. In time, with the terms that pleases me (meaning Finland gets good opportunities and not only has to give away them, so that drug addict from Portugal can come and enjoy free healthcare) I'm all for it. But not yet.

St Leo · August 8, 2003, 23:07

I don't really see the need for the European qualifier. If Sudan or Israel or Iran qualify, let them in.

Sava · August 8, 2003, 23:27

No, because it will be unsustainable and will collapse. The ethnic and cultural differences are too great for a single nation to emerge. At best, the EU will function mostly as a trade and military alliance. But I don't think the nations of Europe will surrender their sovereignty to one central government.

I support a Europe that works together for economic development and the spread of Democracy, but not a single nation.

mrmitchell · August 9, 2003, 00:02

Yes. I think Europe would make a fine state. But how would we work the 51th star into the flag?

PLATO · August 9, 2003, 00:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
No, because it will be unsustainable and will collapse. The ethnic and cultural differences are too great for a single nation to emerge. At best, the EU will function mostly as a trade and military alliance. But I don't think the nations of Europe will surrender their sovereignty to one central government.

I support a Europe that works together for economic development and the spread of Democracy, but not a single nation.

You know Sava, I read this reply and thought "that is exactly how I feel". Then I looked at who posted it. Once again I find us in agreement. Am I becoming more liberal or are you becoming more conservative?

PLATO · August 9, 2003, 00:11

Quote:

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Yes. I think Europe would make a fine state. But how would we work the 51th star into the flag?

I think the design already exists.

Panzer32 · August 9, 2003, 00:22

Quote:

Originally posted by PLATO

You know Sava, I read this reply and thought "that is exactly how I feel". Then I looked at who posted it. Once again I find us in agreement. Am I becoming more liberal or are you becoming more conservative?

I agree also with this viewpoint. And I think it is a more conservative view.

OliverFA · August 9, 2003, 21:50

I support it IF it doesn't become and extension of France or Germany. A united Europe, yes. A Europe in which those two countries control all the others... no thanks.

korn469 · August 9, 2003, 21:54

I'm am an american and i'm all for a united europe, i think it'd be a good thing for the world, plus far easier on tourists

Gangerolf · August 10, 2003, 08:26

no way

Gangerolf · August 10, 2003, 08:27

or, sure, as long as I don't have to live in it

Panag · August 10, 2003, 11:19

hi ,

" No (I'm none of the above) "

have a nice day

chequita guevara · August 10, 2003, 11:24

The world needs another superpower to protect it from the Americans. Sadly, even a United Europe won't fill this need, since it's afraid of war (with good reason).

Guess it's up to China.

our_man · August 10, 2003, 11:33

I voted "no (I'm none of the above)", even though this was probably meant for people in another continent, because Ireland isn't in Continental Europe, and we're not in Britain either. So I picked the best fit, yet our precarious geographical position it seems has not been considered in yet another Apolyton poll.

To more serious matters. I'm completely against any further political integration in Europe. The EEC was founded originally to be a trade organization, and I believe it should stay that way. Ireland would lose out if there were further integration - as it is we have a greater amount of power than we should have if dictated by our population relative to other European countries. If the EU were to become more democratic, we would lose this. I don't like the idea of a common European constitution superceding our own, or having to get in line when Brussels says so.

By all means, let's use a common currency and forge closer economic links, but let's try and keep our independence. Ireland had to fight hard for it, and I certainly don't believe something obtained at such a dear price should be surrendered.

C0ckney · August 10, 2003, 11:38

as long as we're not part of it, i don't mind.

Solly · August 10, 2003, 11:39

No.

"The world needs another superpower to protect it from the Americans"

Solly · August 10, 2003, 11:48

You'll be calling yourself patriotic next.

Proteus_MST · August 10, 2003, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by OliverFA
I support it IF it doesn't become and extension of France or Germany. A united Europe, yes. A Europe in which those two countries control all the others... no thanks.

Don´t worry,
it won´t be Germany which will control Europe.

After all, despite we are the nation that pays most of the money for the European Union, we aren´t the ones which have the most (or at least a lot of) Control. There are other States which control the EU and France is one of them

Hey, german isn´t even one of the administrative Languages

Harovan · August 10, 2003, 12:21

A year ago I would have voted yes. Now I'm sure I don't want such a state, at least not now. Perhaps in 50 years, and hopefully by this time I'm dead.

No, continental Europe.

DinoDoc · August 10, 2003, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
A year ago I would have voted yes. Now I'm sure I don't want such a state, at least not now.

What changed?