August 11, 2003, 02:34
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#1
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King
Local Time: 17:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,533
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EU: Superstate or not?
University assignment... just wanna get people's opinions... Euros in particular.
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"The great mass of the French nation is formed ... much as potatoes in a sack form a sack of potatoes" - Karl Marx, The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
Msn: juebizi AT gmail DOT com
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August 11, 2003, 02:48
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#2
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Deity
Local Time: 01:11
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Why not? Why should Europe not coalesce into an entity of the calibre of the US and China?
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
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August 11, 2003, 02:49
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#3
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:11
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I'm British:
I think that the EU, despite the free-trade benifits et al, hampers a members relationship with the rest of the world. All are fundamentally governed by Brussels; from the amount you can eat to how much fuel is taxed. Countries have far less freedom than outside of the EU. And it is a drain on nations such as Britain where refugees come in by the shipful. With EU regulations, Britain can't turn them away and the NHS is bogged down with Kosovans with TB and Albanians with menigicoccol diseases.
The EU only aids those poor nations, and is a hinderance to economic powers (e.g. Britain).
To answer your question; The EU is a Superstate as 50% of all nations are governed from Brussels, as I stated. You can freely travel through them all, get free health from plases like Britain, etc. Even US States have about the same freedom as EU members now.
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August 11, 2003, 03:09
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#4
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King
Local Time: 17:11
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notyoueither: sorry if my question was ambiguous... but I wasn't phrasing it as "should the EU be a superstate?" rather... is it a superstate?
__________________
"The great mass of the French nation is formed ... much as potatoes in a sack form a sack of potatoes" - Karl Marx, The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
Msn: juebizi AT gmail DOT com
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August 11, 2003, 03:24
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#5
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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Posts: 0
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What makes a superstate? Is Canada one? Australia? The US?
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 03:29
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#6
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Emperor
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I was wondering the same thing.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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August 11, 2003, 03:35
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#7
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
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Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frozzy
I'm British:
I think that the EU, despite the free-trade benifits et al, hampers a members relationship with the rest of the world. All are fundamentally governed by Brussels; from the amount you can eat to how much fuel is taxed. Countries have far less freedom than outside of the EU. And it is a drain on nations such as Britain where refugees come in by the shipful. With EU regulations, Britain can't turn them away and the NHS is bogged down with Kosovans with TB and Albanians with menigicoccol diseases.
The EU only aids those poor nations, and is a hinderance to economic powers (e.g. Britain).
To answer your question; The EU is a Superstate as 50% of all nations are governed from Brussels, as I stated. You can freely travel through them all, get free health from plases like Britain, etc. Even US States have about the same freedom as EU members now.
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u can't turn away refugees? is there neway we can dump them in norway. I'd luv to freak out those xenophobes.
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August 11, 2003, 03:37
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#8
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Emperor
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Well we can but Brussells would get irrtated and Tony would start kissing the feet of Schroder and Chirac again 
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August 11, 2003, 03:38
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#9
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:11
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Posts: 3,161
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My pov: It is not, but it should be.
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August 11, 2003, 03:41
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#10
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
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I imagine that EU becoming a superstate will just create this giant socialist animal that breeds off what promises to be the most enormous beaurocracy on the planet.
I can see for extending ur power through one engine be it economic or military being handy. but I wouldn't give up my hopes for an economically efficient country to some enormous gov't w/ all but certain socialist bendings.
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August 11, 2003, 03:44
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#11
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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It's really strange how the EU is percieved. It's either weak as NAFTA or an all-regulating superstate; it's either socialist or a tool of evil neoliberalism.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 03:46
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#12
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
It's really strange how the EU is percieved. It's either weak as NAFTA or an all-regulating superstate; it's either socialist or a tool of evil neoliberalism.
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well I'm conjecturing as to its future. supposing it has about the power of the US federal gov't. then taking into account the political leanings of today as well as the trend.
all that leads me to giant socialist uber state. tho I am not a fortune teller, atleast now u can tell how I got there.
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August 11, 2003, 03:46
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#13
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Emperor
Local Time: 08:11
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Location: The European Union, Sweden, Lund
Posts: 3,682
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August 11, 2003, 03:53
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#14
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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Quote:
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Originally posted by yavoon
well I'm conjecturing as to its future. supposing it has about the power of the US federal gov't. then taking into account the political leanings of today as well as the trend.
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In the field of economics, the EU has about the same legislative powers as the US federal government. The result of that is mostly liberalization. Telecoms, electricity, gas, financial services, public procurement, etc etc....
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 03:55
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#15
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
In the field of economics, the EU has about the same legislative powers as the US federal government. The result of that is mostly liberalization. Telecoms, electricity, gas, financial services, public procurement, etc etc....
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ok...and? I guess no need a point. k I read ur post!
=D
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August 11, 2003, 04:11
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#16
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:11
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Quote:
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Originally posted by yavoon
ok...and? I guess no need a point. k I read ur post!
=D
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This was as comprehesible as bambirbyja kirgudu.
__________________
Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb ! :doitnow!:
Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.
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August 11, 2003, 04:13
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#17
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Saras
This was as comprehesible as bambirbyja kirgudu.
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the post I was replying to had no conclusion[end sentence]
I thot about it for a second, and I suppose it didn't matter[end sentence]
I informed the person I was replying to that I had read his aimless post just so he didn't think I ignored him[end sentence]
=D is a smilie
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August 11, 2003, 04:16
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#18
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:11
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great book. I strongly recommend it. 
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August 11, 2003, 04:18
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#19
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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You said:
"supposing it has about the power of the US federal gov't."
As far as economic law is concerned, there is no need to "suppose".
"then taking into account the political leanings of today"
...should lead to socialism, that was your point, or? It hasn't.
Conclusion: Your position rests on incorrect assumptions.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 04:19
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#20
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:11
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Posts: 4,659
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Hersh's post made sense to me.
...
Now how often do I say that? 
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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August 11, 2003, 04:21
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#21
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
You said:
"supposing it has about the power of the US federal gov't."
As far as economic law is concerned, there is no need to "suppose".
"then taking into account the political leanings of today"
...should lead to socialism, that was your point, or? It hasn't.
Conclusion: Your position rests on incorrect assumptions.
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which assumption was incorrect? all I can easily comprehend is that u think the EU has the same power as the US federal gov't. which is a joke, but somewhat irrelevant(given that ur perception of reality meshes w/ my assumption of the future) so I'm going to try not to go there.
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August 11, 2003, 04:24
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#22
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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Posts: 0
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"u think the EU has the same power as the US federal gov't. which is a joke"
I said "about the same legislative powers" and "in the field of economics". I consider that the relevant issue for socialism or liberalism, not say the military.
If you want to dispute that point, go ahead. I'll have fun.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 04:27
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#23
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"u think the EU has the same power as the US federal gov't. which is a joke"
I said "about the same legislative powers" and "in the field of economics". I consider that the relevant issue for socialism or liberalism, not say the military.
If you want to dispute that point, go ahead. I'll have fun.
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sigh...ok I can see ur looking for a fight. I'll try valiantly to keep the train on track.
which assumption is incorrect.
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August 11, 2003, 04:29
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#24
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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I'm not looking for a fight. And I already stated the incorrect assumptions.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 04:31
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#25
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:11
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
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Bambirbija kirgudu.
__________________
Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb ! :doitnow!:
Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.
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August 11, 2003, 04:32
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#26
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
I'm not looking for a fight. And I already stated the incorrect assumptions.
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be a doll and state it again. obviously when I asked again I wanted clarification. no need to get moody.
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August 11, 2003, 04:41
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#27
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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Posts: 0
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Your assumptions about the EU's legisllative powers and about a prevailing socialist trend are wrong.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 04:42
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#28
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Your assumptions about the EU's legisllative powers and about a prevailing socialist trend are wrong.
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oh so europe isnt socialist. funny guy.
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August 11, 2003, 04:43
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#29
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Settler
Local Time: 08:11
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What is socialist about the EU? CAP is. And what else?
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 11, 2003, 04:44
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#30
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:11
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
What is socialist about the EU? CAP is. And what else?
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the massive amounts of taxation. the massive amts of subsidies. socialized healthcare, large welfare programs, uber powerful unions. I dont know man wut do u wnt? a list?
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