Best threads of the past year

Mountain Sage · August 11, 2003, 09:29

Hi everybody,

Ooops, I did it again!
I wanted to imitate Theseus and put together ‘a thread of threads’ about civ-specific strategies, but I got carried away…
Now you have a ‘thread of 200+ threads’ covering virtually every aspect of civ 3. Too bad for you, you’re in for a long, long read.
Now, how did I choose them? Well, basically I covered every thread posted within the last year (from the end of July 2002, more or less, to the end of July 2003). If it got viewed about 300 times and more, I kept it (with a few exceptions, of course).
That makes 200+ threads. The ‘best of the best’ of the past year? Maybe.
Now, enjoy it and let me know of any omissions.

Your MS,

Mountain Sage · August 11, 2003, 09:32

Mountain Sage · August 11, 2003, 09:33

vmxa1 · August 11, 2003, 12:48

MS you have a lot of fortitude to plow through all of those threads and then link them.
Now if only you would pull out of the chit chat and slap it into a guide, you could become a legend.

GodKing · August 11, 2003, 14:35

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
MS you have a lot of fortitude to plow through all of those threads and then link them.
Now if only you would pull out of the chit chat and slap it into a guide, you could become a legend.

I was thinking the same thing, then I realized something - half of those threads are obsolete because of all the patches and PtW that have changed things. And with conquests comming out in 3-4 months.....

vmxa1 · August 11, 2003, 16:41

Yes, it would require dropping more than the chit chat. It may even be a good idea to start a new thread for some with the relevant part in it. To get thoughts on how it pertains to PTW and soon C3C.
A big job either way. We had hoped Vel would have done it, but he went on to other things.

Dominae · August 11, 2003, 18:46

We could have a contest for the best Civ3 guide...

The Vels of the future would then get a chance to step up to the plate.

Dominae

alva · August 11, 2003, 23:53

Well, this thread should be topped regardless of chit-chat, great work MS

Mountain Sage · August 12, 2003, 06:42

Well, I admit there is lots of chit-chat, but I didn't want to start editing, deleting and censoring anything.
Chit-chat is a living part of this forum. Without it, it would be really boring.
Then, my goal was not to prepare a Civ3 guide, but to give the opportunity to everybody, especially the newcomers, to quickly find the most interesting threads. It's up to them to take what is important and to discard what's not.
As for the obsolescence, I would like to remind you that lots of people don't play with PtW (and probably won't buy C3C). If some threads are indeed 'out of tune', I believe that most of them are still valid. It's hard to believe that the threads about rexxing will become obsolete because of C3C.
As for the threads about civs in general, I really hope that they will get bumped and expanded once the new civs wil become available.
Finally, as for creating a civ guide, it depends on how you folks see this guide. If it's more 'cut and paste' (+editing, +....) as my thread about huge maps, then I could give it a try. If it's more writing chapters from scratch, then I just don't have the time. Sorry.
Anyway, let us know.

vmxa1 · August 12, 2003, 12:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
As for the obsolescence, I would like to remind you that lots of people don't play with PtW (and probably won't buy C3C). If some threads are indeed 'out of tune', I believe that most of them are still valid. It's hard to believe that the threads about rexxing will become obsolete because of C3C.

Yes and a lot of people do not play Civ at all, so what. Not many of them will be coming to Poly, I should think.
Those that play CivIII without PTW or C3C have no need for new thread, since nothing will change for them, no patches have come out in a long time and none will.

Catt · August 12, 2003, 13:07

That is a lot of information! Thanks, MS.

Catt

Yahweh Sabaoth · August 12, 2003, 13:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
Finally, as for creating a civ guide, it depends on how you folks see this guide. If it's more 'cut and paste' (+editing, +....) as my thread about huge maps, then I could give it a try. If it's more writing chapters from scratch, then I just don't have the time. Sorry.

First of all MS, I want to highly commend you for making an up-to-date and WELL INDEXED guide to the threads. That alone should earn you an allegorical slap on the back from everyone here.

Furthermore, if you want everyone here to morally be obliged to buy you a drink, then please do make an edited guide.

I'm not the master of civ as all of you know, but I would make an alright editor, and I hereby volunteer to help you in this task, should you undertake it.

A comprehensive guide to date would be a great boon for all civers everywhere - since the Prima "official strategy guides" are good for wiping one's you-know-what and nothing else.

Of course, presumably, C3C could invalidate a lot of the strategy, what with agricultural and seafaring.

Still, three thumbs up.

Tassadar500 · August 12, 2003, 14:42

Maybe after the AU gets started and I have less work I will try to commit to an AU edit strategy guide. Possibly with screenshots

Cort Haus · August 12, 2003, 14:47

Great work, MS. :beer:

vmxa1 · August 12, 2003, 15:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
Maybe after the AU gets started and I have less work I will try to commit to an AU edit strategy guide. Possibly with screenshots

That would be cool. Myself, I find that at times, I can not be sure if a given fact is as I recall it. It is a pain to see if I can find it anywhere. The guides are not accurate, due to changes and patches. Over all it does not affect my play, but some times you just want to be correct.

Theseus · August 12, 2003, 21:33

A little late to the party...

MS, what can I say, you are a Civer and 'poly member after my own heart.

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Great job. Thought: should we combine it all?

Again, you 'da man, good stuff.

Mountain Sage · August 13, 2003, 03:17

Well, thanks everybody. It feels good to be

ed
Now, what are your ideas about editing and combining?
Let's take the first three threads of 'Game strategies-concepts'. How would you do it?
Before committing myself, let's hear your ideas (and the amount of work involved).

Yahweh Sabaoth · August 13, 2003, 10:46

You've already laid the threads out in a good chapter-style format... A "guide book" could very well be divided into parts, with each thread being an individual chapter.

Of course, some of those threads were VISITED quite a bit but essentially dubplicated another, more impressive thread... for example, I was looking through the 3 America-specific threads (as I am gearing up to play America soon) and I noticed that a lot of the info could be compiled down....

...what you need to do, IMO, is get a list of candidates you can trust (I nominate myself, if you trust me) to edit down each PART and it's chapters, leaving them ESSENTIALLY in tact but eliminating repetitive info and off-topic, irrelevant fluff. Not that that stuff isn't charming, but it's unncessary.

So, that's about 15 editors or so, right? Maybe even closer to 20. Seems like an overwhelming task, but say each editor edited not 1, but 2, or even 3-4 "parts" of the "book". Then all you need to find is about 5 or 6 people with good english and editing skills to compile these parts together.

Note the above: Good grammar, spelling, and editing sense is MORE IMPORTANT here than good civ skills, because the editors are, after all, just sifting through the info and putting into a good order what's already there. No don't necessarily need people of you and Aeson's and Dominae's caliber (just to name a few as examples) to edit this document; their writing is already there.

You could act as an overall editor, and maybe edit some parts you feel strongly about yourself, to give the "guide book" cohesion.

If you found the editors this week (theorhetically) I bet you could have a rough draft together in a month, or maybe 2 months.

I hope you at least consider it.

As for C3C "changing everything," we all know that, as *****ing as C3C probably will be, it won't change EVERYTHING, and besides, if a guide book is already editing and put together cohesively, it will be MUCH EASIER to append to that book in book form.

A guide book would also be a great boon to anyone who doesn't have a terrible amount of time to spend here or on CFC. Just download the book, print, and VOILA! A comprehensive guide to Civ that would boggle and mind, training any beginning quickly and giving the expert new insights from other experts.

I hope this thing happens.

Yahweh Sabaoth · August 13, 2003, 10:49

I want to make the above post clearer; by "parts" I mean parts, typically labelled with Roman numerals, and chapters beneath them...

i.e., might have "Part XXI: Unique Units" and under that, "Chapter 37 Gallic Glory," "Chapter 38 Berserk" etc.

The thread names I think should be largely retained to give the book "charm".

GodKing · August 13, 2003, 15:56

I would volunteer my time...

but even as a native english speaker I still spelled 'of' as 'uv' until the 4th grade or so.......

I think the first thing would be to take the thread, and edit it down to the "relevant facts" of the thread - leaving in any humor or other side information that was thought appropriate.

Then, have someone (particularly the thread participants) check the info, doing things like saying "this was relevant for Civ 1.17, but later versions have changed it" and then adding in the changes if possible.

Then, at that point, combining it into a legible format for a book.

Lots of work. But I would be willing to help, particularly now that it looks like my demo game team will not be going on much longer... (poor spain).

Mountain Sage · August 14, 2003, 05:38

YS and GodKing,

Thanks a lot for your enthusiasm and willingness to help.
Since I did my share of cutting, pasting, editing etc. in my thread about huge maps, I feel I don't really have a choice. Therefore,

I OFFICIALLY DECLARE MS AS 'CIV 3 GUIDEBOOK' COORDINATOR

(if you accept me, of course).

Now, I tried to put the differents threads into chapters (You will see them below), as a first tentative step. As usual, there are good and not-so-good things. Therefore, the structure of the 'guidebook' has to be improved (I'am awaiting your suggestions).

In the meantime, I'm looking not only for people who tell me 'what a great idea you have!', but especially for volunteers to edit-merge those threads in the chapters. Once this is done, I suggest these chapters are posted as threads with the mention 'Civ 3 guidebook'. Everybody will then have time enough to make some more comments AND to provide some relevant screenshots. Lastly, I will do the final editing and 'binding' of the 'guidebook'.
Let me know what you think and come forward. The first ones will get the 'better' chapters. I will keep tabs and keep you posted.

Now, the tentative index of the 'guidebook':

Chapter I: GAME STRATEGIES

1.1. Establishing Strategic Advantages (Seven Pillars of Wisdom)
1.2. The Care, Feeding and Death of Neighboring Civs
1.3. Vassal State Strategy
1.4 The Rogue State Strategy
1.5. The 9 cities strategy (Small is beautiful strat)
1.6. Is war the BEST strategy?
1.7. Diplomatic Strategies (Machiavellian Geopolitiking)
1.8.Ultimate Power (2 threads combined)
1.9. The Dark Side
Vel’s Strategy Thread – part Three (to be dismembered and integrated in different chapters)

Chapter II: THE EARLY GAME

2.1. The Early Game (Vel’s part 1)
2.2. The beginning phase – expansion tactic
2.3. REX – An Essay (+ part of Vel’s 3)
2.4. Lighthouse REX – A Winning Strat
2.5. To tolerate trespassers or not?
2.6. Scouting

Chapter III: SPECIFIC GAME STRATEGIES

3.1. How to dominate on the huge map with 16 civs
3.2. Playing on Huge Maps: Final Report
3.3. OCC games (2 threads)
3.4. Archipelago games (Questions about island starts)
3.5. Giving away cities tactic
3.6. Defending your opponent to death
3.7. Perfect economy and military at the same time
3.8. Overcoming Parity in the Medieval Age
3.9. The Industrial Age
3.10. On the often neglected joys of the late game
3.11. Want to win, time running out … what to do
3.12. Important changes in game behaviour in PTW

Chapter IV: PLAYING AT DIFFERENT LEVELS

4. 1. Pacifist strategies on Monarch (Pacifist strategies for Monarch + early game and part of Randomturn strategy guide for Monarch-Deity)
4.2. Emperor: 10 tips (10 Tips to get you up to Emperor/Deity, adapted)
4.2. Emperor: the early game (Crucial early turns on Emperor: Archer rushing, initial rex…) What I’ve learned on the way to Emperor
4.3. Playing at Emperor on a Huge Archipelago
4.4. Deity: 10 tips (10 Tips to get you up to Emperor/Deity, adapted)
4.5. Deity for beginners (4 threads + part of Randomturn strategy guide for Monarch-Deity)
4.6. Deity: peaceful builder strategy (Deity for beginners: a peaceful builder strat)
4.7 Deity: OCC games (Quest for an OCC launch in deity)

Chapter V: AI AND GAME MECHANICS

5.1. The key to AI greatness (2 threads)
5.2. AI colonies
5.3. AI settler herding
5.4. AI cheats and strategies to counter them
5.5. Dirty tricks
5.6. Details of turnplay mechanics
5.7. Civ 3 Glossary

Chapter VI: WONDERS

6.1. Wonder Guide
6.2. Best Wonders?
6.3. Wonder Building (Psychotic Wonder Building)
6.4. A mathematical analysis of the ‘Three Improvement Wonders’
6.5. The importance of Medieval Wonders
6.6. Specific Wonders: The Great Library (2 threads)
6.7. Specific Wonders: the Pyramids (Building Pyramids under Deity, adapted)
6.8. Specific Wonders: the Internet (The Internet – Key to Domination)

Chapter VII: CIV MANAGEMENT

7.1. Culture-flipping (Culture-Flipping Exposed)
7.2. Corruption (2 threads)
7.3. Economics (Money Making Strategy)
7.4. Managing your Uus (Managing your civ for the benefits of your Uus)
7.5. Managing your Workers (Dumping the Unwanted)

Chapter VIII: CITY PLACEMENT

8.1. City Placement Analysis (+Appropriate City Placement + City placement redux)
8.2. Alterative City placement (What city placement do you use?)
8.3. The Quaint Old Village Approach
8.4. Flood Plains (Flood Plains. Taboo to found cities on them?)
8.5. Camp Placement Strategy

Chapter IX: CITY MANAGEMENT

9.1. City size (Size DOES matter)
9.2. The Luxury Slider (The Power of the Luxury Slider)
9.3. City Shields (Formula for city tile shields)
9.4. Governors
9.5. Pollution (Pollution Mania)
9.6. Hurrying production (2 threads)

Chapter X: CITY IMPROVEMENTS

10.1. Building early improvements (+Your building sequence in the early game)
10.2. Facultative improvements (Useless Improvements)
10.3. Granaries (4 threads))
10.4. Walls (How do walls really work?)
10.5. Courthouses (2 threads)
10.6. Hospitals (The Wisdom of NO Hospitals + some positive comments)
10.7. Power Plants (Power Plants: Everything You Wanted to Know But Were Afraid to Ask)

Chapter XI: PALACE + FORBIDDEN PALACE

11.1. Getting’ Your Palace On
11.2. Optimal FP placement (2 threads)
11.3. Free Palace Jump

Chapter XII: TERRAIN IMPROVEMENTS

12.1. Terrain improvements (Terrain improvements you should/should not do)
12.2. Irrigation vs. mining (Quick guide to irrigation vs. mining + Why you do NOT want to mine shielded grasslands!)
12.3. IFE-Infinite Forest Exploitation
12.4. Rail network (How do you prioritise your rail network?)

Chapter XIII: RESOURCES & LUXURIES

13.1. Strategic resources
13.2. What are the best resources?
13.3. The Protection of Resources
13.4. Taking Away Another Civ Valuables
13.5. Trading luxuries (Trading luxuries. Good idea?)

Chapter XIV: TECHNOLOGY

14.1. How science works and why there is a 4 turn cap
14.2. Keeping up with the tech research (Ways to keep up with the comp in research if you remain peaceful + Can’t research my own techs)
14.4. Techs buying – some details (+Technology – help)

Chapter XV: SETTLERS & WORKERS

15.1. The settler/worker factory (Using certain cities primarily as settler/worker pumps)
15.2. About workers (How many workers should you have? + Worker Worries +Worker Management Discovery)

Chapter XVI: GOVERNMENTS & DIPLOMACY

16.1. Diplomacy strategy (+Does ‘Our troops approach your cities’ ever work?)
16.2. Monarchy vs. Republic (3 threads)
16.3. Democracy vs. Republic
16.4. Communism vs. Monarchy
16.5. Communism (Communism for the warmonger + Communism: the Hammer and the Sickle)

Chapter XVII: CIVs TRAITS & GOLDEN AGE

17.1. Civs comparison (The Best Civilization + Picking the Right Civ!)
17.2. Quantitative Analysis of Civs Traits (+ insert part of Vel’s 3 + Civs from easiest to hardest + Most annoying civs to play against…)
17.3. The Golden Age (Civilizations and their Golden Age + The Ancient Golden Age)
17.4. Militaristic civs and traits (Most fun militaristic style civs + Military traits: it’s not just for war-mongers)

Threads to be put in 17.2. :
GW’s, Civ Traits and GA’s – The Facts
The Virtues of Being Industrious
Taking a second look at Expansionist
A Commercial trait commercial
Scientific/Commercial civs

Chapter XVIII: SPECIFIC CIVS
18.1. Civ strategy analysis: the Aztecs (2 threads)
18.2. Civ-specific strategy: the Americans (3 threads)
18.3. Civ-specific strategy: the Celts (PTW-Celtic Strategic Thread)
18.4. Civ-specific strategy: the English
18.5. Civ-specific strategy: the Babylonians
18.6. Civ-specific strategy: the Arabs
18.7. Civ-specific strategy: the French (3 threads)
18.8. Civ-specific strategy: the Romans (Winning as Rome on a Huge World)
18.9. Civ-specific strategy: the Vikigs (Berzerking!)
18.10. Civ-specific strategy: the Persians (Maximize your Strategy: Persians)
18.11. Civ-specific strategy: the Germans
18.12. Civ-specific strategy: the Greeks (How to handle the Greek?)
18.13. Civ-specific strategy: the Indians (Success, the Indians and You)

Chapter XIX: WARFARE – STRATEGIES
19.1. Warfare strategies (Is war the BEST strategy? + How, where and when to declare war)
19.2. Warfare in the early game (Your first war)
19.3. Surgical Wars
19.4. War weariness (War weariness carryover)
19.5. Golden Age Mobilization
19.6. The Archer Rush (Timeline for an ultra-early Archer rush + Successful Archer Rush: Can You Lose Afterwards?)
19.7. Overseas Conquests in the Middle Ages
19.8. Invading AI Continents in Modern Age
19.9. Concentration of Force
19.10. Sneak Attack
10.11. Nuclear wars (3 threads)

Chapter 20: WARFARE – TACTICS AND MECHANISM

20.1. Naval Power – with Pictures
20.2. Submarine Warfare
20.3. Fundamentals of Mobilization Revealed
20.4. Combat System Explained
20.5. Why do offensive units defend before defensives ones
20.6. F3: Strong/Average/Weak
20.7. Enemies. Does AI remember?

Chapter XXI: WARFARE – DIPLOMACY & ECONOMICS

21.1. Military Alliances in Democracy
21.2. Which is the Best Government for Modern Warfare?
21.3. Sneaky military tactics (Screw your ally during the war and get away with it)
21.4. Perfect economy and military at the same time
21.5.Spies (2 threads)

Chapter XXII: ARMIES, GREAT LEADERS & UUs

22.1. Elites (Getting the most out of your Elites)
22.2. Great Leaders (3 threads)
22.3. On the Utility and Use of Armies (4 threads)
22.4. A Strategic Analysis of the Special Units
22.5. Rating Special Units (+ Unique Units Grades (including PTW)
22.6. UU: Cossacks

Chapter XXIII: MILITARY UNITS AND IMPROVEMENTS

23.1. Skipping Chivalry? (+ Why I Skip Knights)
23.2. Bombardment (A use for bombardment? + How the big boys use arty?)
23.3. Radar Artillery
23.4. Paratroopers
23.5. Marines
23.6. Fortresses (+ Does anyone use forts? + Not happy with fortresses)

vmxa1 · August 14, 2003, 12:18

Wow

vmxa1 · August 14, 2003, 12:23

MS when you say editing binding are you talking about putting the content of the threads (edited) into rtf file?

It could be uploaded then.

Konquest02 · August 14, 2003, 14:47

Whoa! You really got it MS!

Some nitpicking...
- I would put the glossary either at the beginning or annexed at the end for easy reference, but not in the middle as it stands now.
- 22.6 (UU: Cossack) should go under Civ-specific strategy, as the russian thread.
- 12.3 (IFE - Infinite Forest Exploitation) is I think, an exploit that was corrected 2-3 patches ago... I need confirmation on this...

The Seven Pillars of Wisdom could act as an introduction, as I think it's the single best thread in the lot. and it's not technicalities, so it might do well...

Keep up the good work!!

--Kon--

badams52 · August 14, 2003, 14:59

Great work MS, but just glancing through the threads, didn't we ever lay out groundwork for how to trade with the AI? I think we discussed formulas for luxuries somewhere along the way and that the price goes up with the number of happy faces said luxury with give a civ.

I was going to write a specific thread about tech whoring...uh...trading with the AI putting all the tips and trick into one thread but never got around to it.

vmxa1 · August 14, 2003, 18:58

Quote:

Originally posted by badams52
I think we discussed formulas for luxuries somewhere along the way and that the price goes up with the number of happy faces said luxury with give a civ.

I think Catt put one together. I am not sure if it is here or only at CFC.

vmxa1 · August 14, 2003, 19:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Konquest02
- 12.3 (IFE - Infinite Forest Exploitation) is I think, an exploit that was corrected 2-3 patches ago... I need confirmation on this...

Yes this was patched out very early.

badams52 · August 14, 2003, 19:47

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I think Catt put one together. I am not sure if it is here or only at CFC.

Did some digging and found this thread posted by Catt:
AI Understands Monopoly Value
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=63602

I don't know if the information included is repeat information from the other threads, but it makes the # of happyfaces gained = price of luxuries connection that's essential to understanding how trading luxuries works with the AI.

What it doesn't mention though is the strategy of getting all luxury deals you have to end on the same turn so that you aren't always paying the highest price for them.

vmxa1 · August 14, 2003, 21:35

It has been a while, since I read it, so I was lucky to even recall who did it. Come to think of it, that could be true even if it was yesterday.

GarP2 · August 15, 2003, 13:51

I would also nominate ToeTruck's OCC thread (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=90855) for inclusion in Chap III section 3.3. It very clearly laid out one effective OCC strategy and stimulated quite a bit of discussion about the details.

GarP2