Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do? - Page 2

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 07:10

Well Cerberus, it is not that clear cut with regards to land ownership here in the south. Most people have turned to tourism and other services and they do neglect most of their land that is not in agricultural use any more.

Also, land keeping books are not up to date, so officials would not know who to hold responsible for maintenance of forests even if there were a law that demanded it (I think there isn't)

But still, our firefighting abilities are stretched to the point of breaking and there are plenty of capacities that are idling in the north. There is some cooperation between countries that are neighbours but not much more than that.

All I am saying is that this is not natural and could be helped if there was will to do so.

lightblue · August 12, 2003, 07:11

Also in general, the citizens of Mediterranean countries are far less environmentally inclined than "us Northerners". Most of these fires will have been started by locals.

As for us paying, why? Do you guys send us money when the floods strike? A europe wide disaster relief fund would be a good idea, but not solely funded by the Northern countries.

FrustratedPoet · August 12, 2003, 07:14

How much relief money did Portugal and Spain give Germany, Hungary and the Czech Republic during those terrible floods last year? (this is a serious question, btw)

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 07:14

If you are looking for great climate check out Croatia. Land and house prices here are still much lower that in comparable EU countries. Just don't apply your forest regeneration theories here thank you

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 07:18

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
How much relief money did Portugal and Spain give Germany, Hungary and the Czech Republic during those terrible floods last year? (this is a serious question, btw)

I don't know for them, but I bet they helped. Croatia is a small country but we like the Czech

so we sent a few clean-up teams, some technical aid and some kids from Prague got invited to a free holidays here payed by our parliament. We have an emotional link with Praha, should have done much more.

CerberusIV · August 12, 2003, 07:21

Quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion
All I am saying is that this is not natural and could be helped if there was will to do so.

That more could, and should, be done including help from other european countries I entirely agree with.

The problem I, and probably many other people in northern europe, have is that southern europe sometimes seems like a black hole that swallows money and gives nothing back.

Two or three years ago it was reported that there was a drought in Sicily. We were told that it wasn't because it hadn't rained, or that there wasn't water in the reservoirs. The problem was apparently that money from the EU to pay for the pipes to distribute the water had "disappeared" without the pipes being installed. That kind of problem doesn't send a positive message to the taxpayers here.

The hot dry weather across europe this year is going to see a lot of people claiming compensation. By the time the politicians have finished arguing I doubt if many of them will really get the help they need.

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 07:23

Quote:

Originally posted by lightblue
Also in general, the citizens of Mediterranean countries are far less environmentally inclined than "us Northerners". Most of these fires will have been started by locals.

Sure, sure. It is just a coincidence they happen when there are most tourists in the countries?

Quote:

As for us paying, why? Do you guys send us money when the floods strike? A europe wide disaster relief fund would be a good idea, but not solely funded by the Northern countries.

Ofcourse not solely funded by the northern countries. But you have floods, what, once every three, four years? We have fires every year. Sometimes less, sometimes cathasthropic (like this year)

lightblue · August 12, 2003, 07:29

Quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion

Sure, sure. It is just a coincidence they happen when there are most tourists in the countries?

What the summer, when it is hot and dry? Go figure

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 07:34

Quote:

That more could, and should, be done including help from other european countries I entirely agree with.

Quote:

The problem I, and probably many other people in northern europe, have is that southern europe sometimes seems like a black hole that swallows money and gives nothing back.

The money spent in the south finds its way back north since almost nothing of significance is produced on the coasts of our enchanting blue seas

And it is not all about the money anyway. If you show a will to help it means something too.

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 07:47

lighblue, if your country looked like this you would be more compassionate maybe

lightblue · August 12, 2003, 08:01

Oh, I sympatise, but blaming it on the tourists is a cop out imo. Hot weather and little to no rain results in fires. That this happens during the main tourist season (who come mostly during this period), is a coincidence not a cause.

Bereta_Eder · August 12, 2003, 08:51

It's the first time I hear that tourists(!) of all people are to be blamed for the fires...
Arsenists, payed by lame constructors or other people who want to "clear" acres in order to build are the ones who put the fires.

And I don't see a reason for other EU countries to help us with the costs. The one thing that must be done, and in fact is being done, is to share human resources, firefighters, fire fighter planes and helicopters between countries. Something that is already being done.

And the net payers of the EU have every reason to question where the money go. Sicily is not an exception. The place stinks of EU infustructure money ending up in someone's pockets

Bereta_Eder · August 12, 2003, 08:56

The solution to disuade arsenists and contractors of doing that is to automatically declare every fire stricken area as "non - buildable" as it is under the law here.

Now only if this law was enforced....

Solly · August 12, 2003, 11:02

Quote:

Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do?

Troll response: Celebrate!

That's the bullshit half of Europe gone.

Normal response: Selective burning every year. Burning one tenth of the forest in a controllable area of your own choosing is better than losing the whole damn lot and endagering lives and infrastructure. Of course, Greeny lefties would moan about this...

Lefty Scaevola · August 12, 2003, 12:26

"Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do?"

You shoud surrender to the USA before we unlease of next wave of climate alteration to crush Europes economic and social structure.

VetLegion · August 12, 2003, 13:29

Arhem, you all gloaters should remember that in shortage of firefighters, military recruits get sent in. And you do remember MarkG is in the Greek army and could get fire duty, do you?

DanielXY · August 12, 2003, 13:33

Us Northeners cant give u any money right now ... we have to wait and see how much of our land is going to burn down... There are already some fires ... comparable small ... but who knows when the heat keeps up ...

Jack_www · August 12, 2003, 13:54

I would just like to point out that forest fires are a natural part of the eco-system. When there is a lot of over growth and people put out the small fires that could get rid of the small stuff it builds up for years and years untill you get a massive wild fires.

FrustratedPoet · August 12, 2003, 14:05

Quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion
Arhem, you all gloaters should remember that in shortage of firefighters, military recruits get sent in. And you do remember MarkG is in the Greek army and could get fire duty, do you?

I think that's why they're gloating.

Odin · August 12, 2003, 14:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Boddington's

Greeny lefties would moan about this...

Uh, no we wouldn't. It mimics natural fires, but you wouldn't know that because the UK is always too wet for big forest fires.

Odin · August 12, 2003, 14:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack_www
I would just like to point out that forest fires are a natural part of the eco-system. When there is a lot of over growth and people put out the small fires that could get rid of the small stuff it builds up for years and years untill you get a massive wild fires.

DON'T FORGET THE YELLOWSTONE FIRE!!!

H Tower · August 12, 2003, 15:16

A third of Portugal burned? I want to see a reputable source for that one.

And as others have pointed out, controlled forest fires prevent the big ones, just be careful they don't get out of hand. The US Park service learned that one at yellowstone.

DanielXY · August 12, 2003, 16:04

Actually "only" a area about the size of luxembourgh burned in portugal. thats far from a third

Gangerolf · August 12, 2003, 16:59

Quote:

What should we do? I blame the tourists from the north. They are the culprits for most of the fires. Should there be a tax in northern europe intended to fight fires in the south? I think there should

Pay for your own damn fires you lazy wogs

Is that the kind of reply you were fishing for?

VetLegion · August 13, 2003, 19:44

Gangerolf, you are an arrogant blondie northerner

I have just checked, yes the news sites say that in Portugal the area the size of Luxembourgh (sp?) has burned so far. About 2150 square kilometers or 2.4 percent of the whole surface of Portugal. Only 31% of the country is forests so up to 10% of their forests could burn this year (if I calculated it right)

Bereta_Eder · August 13, 2003, 19:51

Portugal has just 3.000 firefighters. Greece with an equal to Portugal population has... 17.000 firefighters, some of which went to Portugal to help out.

Portugal maybe just wasnt prepared. Whereas Greece, with all the arsenist/cosntructors drooling venoumous saliva over its nice forests, was forced to get prepared

(not that it actually worked).

Miracously enough, and I'm sure this is just an accident there werent any damaging fires in Greece this summer, unlike previous summers, something that the ruling party has been desperate to exploit politically. (cause its going dooooown)

Of course they're not fooling anybody the bastards. Maybe there's nothing left to burn anymore.

ottok · August 14, 2003, 02:52

http://www.apolyton.net/ads/gcban2.jpg http://www.apolyton.net/ads/gcban2.jpg

Frozzy · August 14, 2003, 03:26

The EU should fund a European Firefighting Agency. It would be split into the 15 or so member countries. But with funding from the EU

Sikander · August 14, 2003, 07:41

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower
A third of Portugal burned? I want to see a reputable source for that one.

And as others have pointed out, controlled forest fires prevent the big ones, just be careful they don't get out of hand. The US Park service learned that one at yellowstone.

Actually they learned it at Los Alamos.

Gangerolf · August 14, 2003, 07:56

"The EU should fund a European Firefighting Agency."

Or at least create a fund that could pay for sending firefighters from one country to another in situations like these