Internal Affairs Function's Office

[Drogue]

I agree, with the 5-1 there too. LL also needs crawlers soon, to get the mins and nuts worked.

[Corellion]

With the 5-1?

[Drogue]

the 5 nuts one min square, we don't need much more nuts.

[Corellion]

Ah. Alright.

[Maniac]

Since we now have 125 credits in reserve, how about we hurry the rec commons being constructed in DBTSverse Portal?

[Corellion]

Sorry I've been away (and am unable to check the save to get more info right now). This week has been incredibly hectic with labs, assignments, and projects to do. I'll try and get back ASAP.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Here are some sugjestion for the next turn.

Hurry the Colony Pod at Mythical Matrix, next turn it should take 10 energy to hurry get it to 1 turn left.

Build a farm at 80/70 so Aurora's soon to be pasificfied drone has something to work.

Also build a farm on the Matrix nut bonus tile so that MM can recover its lost citiven that much faster.

Hurry the Rec Connoms at Aurora, next turn 10 credits should get it within 1 turn of completion.

Switch Bolean Bay production to a Former, when the former gets near completion in 2 more turns we can hurry it along as well for a modest energy cost.

Said former can then develope the nearby rolling/moist/elivated square with farm and solar colectors for an out put of 2/1/3 or build a mine along the road to Logic Loop which can then be crawled after mineral caps are lifted.

Once Zetaris has a crawler working the mineral bonus it should make Recycling tanks. Also building a mine on the mineral bonus is not a very high priority untill we get mineral caps lifted, as of now the mine will only net us +1 mineral. Once cap are off though it will bring in +4 atleast so unless we think we will have the cap lifted in the next 8 turns the former their can consentrate on other things.

[Corellion]

Er... as to your last point, I don't think so. Even pre-restrictions lifting, I've always gotten 7 minerals on a min bonus/mine/road tile? Am I imagining things, or is this correct?

[Corellion]

A general request to the CyCon community:

My screenshot function is acting up, and I can't seem to get anything more than black with base names and production radii. Can somebody please take a screenshot of the large area of land to our northeast with Zetaris and Mythical Matrix included in the screenshot? If you upload it, I can then proceed to make a base site poll.

[Maniac]

I would like to propose to hurry the rec commons in DBTSverse Portal.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Impaler's sugjestions for 2146. I like to do a Base Based terraforming plan so here goes.

Bolean Bay - Its not growing very fast so I recomend that in 2 turns we switch a worker from the Forest to the Ocean Nut Bonus, this will greatly incresse our nutrient intake and grow the city in about 4-5 turns after we make the switch. Mineral intake obviously goes down but after 2 turns the cralwer will be close enoughto completion that we can hurry it for a modest energy cost and get it out crawling minerals. The Formers that is currently making a road to Bolean Bay should rehome at BB once it done with the road and then build a farm then solar panel at 69/79 which would give us a 2/1/3 tile to support future growth.

Aurora - Next production should be a second Former, then Recycling tanks. The new former could lay down a mine at 72/76 or clear fungus in Garland Crater or help other bases.

Zetaris - New worker obvious goes to the forest, Build some solar Panals at 71/63. When the Crawler is done send it over to crawl minerals from the un-used forest near Apolyton Prime. Then Build Recycling tanks and Colony Pods. Zetaris is going to have a huge mineral output soon so this will not take long.

Portal - Next Production tanks, have formers build farms and solar colectors on the rolling squares in the area and forests on the flat squares.

Apolyton Prime - Not much to do here as this base is being used for war Production (mostly probe teams). When war production ends we should make some recycling tanks and consider NetNodes or Energy Banks.
One of the 2 formers near by should be sent to The Zetaris Mineral Bonus to help get that mine done ASAP.

Logic Loop - A former should build a farm at 68/72 so that workers can be redistributed for incressed energy colection without decressing nut intake. We might also want to consider switching Production to a Comand Center which could be completed in 2 turns with a small energy hurry, The Impact marine would then gain 2 levels of experience in additition to the bonus for being a prototype. This would make a very kick ass Marine so I think its worth a delay of 2 turns especialy considering all the future units that are likly to be produced at Logic Loop. When to producing military units we should consider Net Nodes and Energy Banks which will provide significant pay back with the high energy intake here.

Pi Squared - Our Impact Cruiser is being built here and theirs not much terraforming that needs to be done in the surounding area. We need to time the completion of the Cruiser with a switch out of Wealth, this will ofcorse jack up the cost so we will probly need to Hurry after that. This is more a topic for the Military threads though.

Binary Bastion - When the road building former Re-homes it will make room for the new former which will be reaching completion about the same time. Consentrate of Forests in the arid land their and then try to get a Recycling tanks built for better growth.

The Plasma Garrison between Logic Loop and Apolyton Prime could take a detoure due west and get a Monolith upgrade, that would delay it a bit in reaching its destonation ofcorse.

Future Base Locations - I sugjested a ways back that out next base on the NorthEastern Peninsula be a pushed outward to accelerate our claiming that territory.
I think the best place would be at 80/62 or 81/63 this would give the base access to another Rocky Mineral bonus and Nutrient Bonus in the Sea. Such a base would be excelent for producing additional colony Pods and Formers to settle the rest of the Peninsula with. The Pod should get escorted (Due to thourse Mind worms that were in that area several turns ago) by the scout at Mythical Matrix which will no longer be required for Police Duty.

I think we should build out roads on 78/66, 80/66, 80/68, and 80/64. This will conect Zetaris, Mythical Matirx and 2 future bases in the area and facilitate terraforming as many of these tiles are prime candidates for improvment.

We would then place the next 2 bases at 82/68 and the area of 80/56, 81/57 (near the unpoped Pod).

[Maniac]

Re Impaler:

Wouldn't it be better to rehome the Boolean crawler to Aurora? Then the transport will be finished sooner and we'll be able to go to war sooner as well.

Re Aurora, are you aware of the war production schedule to build a cruiser transport? Regarding mining (72.76), is that useful before we have Ecological Engineering?

Zetaris - Build some solar Panals at 71/63

That square is only at height 10 metres, so it wouldn't deliver much energy. Wouldn't it be better to leave that square alone for now and terraform more productive squares? Later in the game I personally would actually prefer to plant a forest there instead.

You are correct Zetaris will have a large mineral output soon. Therefore I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to build a military unit there. An impact rover or squad perhaps?

Portal - Next Production tanks

We're going to war. Shouldn't we better build a probe defence or impact squad there as well?

One of the 2 formers near by should be sent to The Zetaris Mineral Bonus to help get that mine done ASAP.

Good idea.

Logic Loop - A former should build a farm at 68/72 so that workers can be redistributed for incressed energy colection without decressing nut intake.

Don't we have plenty of nutrient surplus and rainy squares already there? A forest would deliver 1-2-2, and once we have tree farms 2-2-2, more than a farm and solar collector could deliver.

We might also want to consider switching Production to a Comand Center which could be completed in 2 turns with a small energy hurry

If we have sufficient energy, that might work. Disadvantage is of course future production is delayed.

Binary Bastion

Since there are no rainy squares or nutrient boni in the neighbourhood, how about we cultivate ONE farm there on a moist square to speed up growth a bit? I wouldn't build a solar collector on it though, as personally I would prefer to plant a forest later on such a square when the need for nutrients is no longer so big (because we have tree farms for example).

The Plasma Garrison between Logic Loop and Apolyton Prime

What is that garrison doing there btw? Wouldn't it be better to send it to Boolean Bay to ship it off towards a conquered PEACE base once we have them?

I think the best place would be at 80/62 or 81/63

I like (81.63). That way we also have a canal base at the same time. Let's indeed escort the CP. The next production item in Mythical Matrix should be a scout then.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Bolean Bay - rehoming that crawler to Aurora would indeed help accelerate war production at Aurora but Bolean Bays growth would be slowed greatly. I think getting Bolean grown to size 2 and capable or contributing is more important. Dose the war production schedual explicity call for rehoming the crawler? If not then we should keep it at Bolean.

Zetaris Solar Panals - As long as that tile is being worked I feel we should make it as good as it can be even if its just 1 energy. Unless we are going to crawl food from the farm then we are going to continue using it no matter how many crawlers and forests we have. Also consider that every time a workers works a tile making less then 2 food its a drain on the growth rate. Eventualy Forests can bring in lots of food but thats a LONG way off and requires a considerable investment in facilites. As for military at Zetaris, its not a very vulnorable base, we could easily move defenders their if we see a threat coming, unlike our bases on the western coast Zetaris dose not need a large standing force.

Logic Loop - You can never have too much nut intake. The question here basicaly boils down to Nut vs Mineral. I go with Nuts, especialy on rolling tiles. Nuts will grow our population and that incressed population will MORE then make up the 1 mineral the forest would get us. Forests also have low energy output which will cost us in the long term vs Solar panals with Eclelon Mirrors. As for the Comand Center, if we switch production next turn we will probly loss a few minerals (I estimate 3 but I am not shure) on that same turn we could then hurry the thing for around 12 energy to get it too 1 turn. After that the marine could be completed in 2 turns again with a modest 10-12 energy.

Plasma Garrison - I belive it is moving north to be stationed in Pi Square, I dont belive its going to take part in the war.

Base Location - I didn't think of the Canal effect, that would definatly be valuable so my vote goes with 81/63.

[Maniac]

Boolean Bay

Though normally I would agree BB's growth is more important, IMHO now is a moment when finishing our cruiser transport, necessary to start our invasion, faster on the short term is more important than letting BB grow a little faster on the long term. After all, if we don't attack PEACE soon in the short term, there won't be a long term to plan for.

Zetaris Solar Panals - As long as that tile is being worked I feel we should make it as good as it can be even if its just 1 energy. Unless we are going to crawl food from the farm then we are going to continue using it no matter how many crawlers and forests we have.

Another alternative is building some farms & solar collectors on the +1000 moist & rolling tiles in Zetaris' base radius. There farms & collectors will stay more productive than forests much longer than on the 10m square, making it a less inefficient investment.

Logic Loop - You can never have too much nut intake. The question here basicaly boils down to Nut vs Mineral. I go with Nuts, especialy on rolling tiles. Nuts will grow our population and that incressed population will MORE then make up the 1 mineral the forest would get us.

Personally I would choose for minerals. Again, because we are in a future war situation where short term gains and survival is much more important than longterm gains.
Btw, Logic Loop is currently at size 5. At size 6 there will be an extra drone, and thus a Hologram Theatre would need to be built. But with the upcoming war we can't waste minerals on that. So LL growing is IMHO the last thing we need right now.

Forests also have low energy output which will cost us in the long term vs Solar panals with Eclelon Mirrors.

In my games my experience is that I built tree farms and even Hybrid Forests much sooner than the long-to-built Echelon Mirrors. Not with you?

As for the Comand Center, if we switch production next turn we will probly loss a few minerals (I estimate 3 but I am not shure) on that same turn we could then hurry the thing for around 12 energy to get it too 1 turn. After that the marine could be completed in 2 turns again with a modest 10-12 energy.

I haven't checked it out yet, so I'm not sure, but won't the impact squad be finished too late then? Remember that Impact Squad must be finished asap, so the prototype cost for impact guns falls away, and the cost of the Impact Cruiser currently under production in Pi Square falls away as well.


Anyway, do we need to poll these issues?

[Impaler[WrG]]

I would rather just see people voice their opinions here, a poll aint very usefull if no one is even debating it before hand.

I dont realy know much about military matters as I am a hard core builder and terraformer. I will defere to more experienced warmongers for out battle plans and such, especialy seeing that you have a very extensive and though out plan of action. I would recomend though that what ever plan you have should be accelerated with energy credits that we now have in relative abundance. My rule of thumb is if I can save a turn for 10 energy credits or less I hurry it.

Eschlon Mirrors I start building the moment they become avalible, often I have grouped my previous solar Panals inorder to make maximum use of the mirrors. With my low numbers of forests, I tend to build tree farms later and purely for their econ and pych boosting effects.

Good idea with Zetaris, high elevation rolling tiles are great for farm/solar panel combo. That will give us 2/1/2 and with soil enrichers and Echilon Mirros that goes us to 3/1/3.

[MrWhereItsAt]

A base at 81, 63 sounds terrific, and we gain nothing good by moving it to 80, 62 - in fact we lose the use of one nuts on a river!

A new idea Impaler came up with in chat - moving the 2/1/1 worker in Logic Loop to the Solar South of it - we lose a food (slows the inevitable growth to an extra drone) and gains us 2 energy - one from the solar and one from trade with PEACE. Since this is temporary, perhaps we should go for it to make the most of our treaty with them whilst it lasts.

Just throwing something out - at its current 2 pop, DBTSverse can build a Colony pod in 6 turns, and grows in 6 turns - this may be useful for cranking out fast Pods. It is somewhat far away from areas we can settle at present, but a quick Transport in Zetaris could help shunt them to where they are needed in the East faster than anything else could. As for the moment in Zetaris, building Tanks sounds good, as long as we realise we can and may need to switch to a military unit like another Cruiser at short notice if we need it. Tanks will only take about 4 turns soon anyway, so they won't take much from the war effort.

Forests near that fungus bit could lead to further Forest expansion in an otherwise barren area, and maybe even eat some fungus - the sooner the better of course, but there would be little need of them to be worked, so we should treat this as a lesser priority.

I do think we need more formers, but for the moment we have to seal the war result - when that is done we can relax a bit and concentrate on either lots of formers and few pods (formers to give growing populations more tiles to work), or lots of pods to settle with and fewer formers (less need for new tiles with no/less growth in the current bases). To err is human, to err on the side of caution until we have educated PEACE is logical. Are we not both?

[Maniac]

MWIA and Impaler, I'll include the Logic Loop worker switch and the Zetarian farm & solar collector plans in the SF (Second Function) thread.

As for the DBTSverse Portal idea, MWIA, you're right DBTS is located rather far away from our virgin territories. You then say a transport could solve that, but shouldn't we use every transport we have or will have for the coming war effort?

As for the moment in Zetaris, building Tanks sounds good, as long as we realise we can and may need to switch to a military unit like another Cruiser at short notice if we need it. Tanks will only take about 4 turns soon anyway, so they won't take much from the war effort.

But in the War Preparations thread you say yourself we only have one impact cruiser planned right now. Shouldn't it therefore be better to start production on a second one in Zetaris right away?

[MrWhereItsAt]

You are of course correct about that Maniac - a temporary programming bug in the new version of the OS my implants use. A Cruiser straight away would be the safest option to go for. It will inevitably end up useful whatever the war outcome.

As for the possibility of DBTSverse as a Colony Pod farm, it doesn;t need to be now, but it could be useful when this war is behind us, as I hope we are not settling too much during hostilities!

[Impaler[WrG]]

Impaler walks into his new office early on the day of his first term. After placing his Net Node link and Nural Amplifier anteni on the Desk he notices an Engraved Plaque made from the hull of the Unity lander itself, aparently left behind by Corelion Omega 9. It Reads "And upon this Rock we build our Home". A puzzling expresion, at first he is about to put the thing away but on second though desides to display it instead. These Anchient momentos of Emotion remind us of how far we have come and how far we have yet to go.

Impaler plops down in his cair rubbing his temples. His implants still ache from intense yet fruitfull Global Geography calculations. Already the entire southern Hemisphere of Planet has been analized for siesmic vibrations that indicate the presense of distant human bases. Painstaking Algorithmic refractions by Mr. WIA have sifted recorded Radio wave comunications with the Nautilus Pirates colected decades ago durring friendlier relations by then Prime Function Drouge have yealded a complete map of their territory. It is indeed true what they say "If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of Giants", If only the anchient full humans could have done it the Cycon way, emotionless teamwork enchanced by cybornetic implants speeds up the process a hundred fold.

Now the Conciusness buzzes with activity as the new data is digested. Already plans have crystalized. By universal agreement the upcoming war with PEACE shall comence in the Year 2152, this is as they say is T-Turn. If all goes acording to plan Alexandria and Margaritaville will both fall to overwelming Cycon forces and the Pirate data network will be infiltrated by our most skilled Probe Teams. All activity now focuses on completing the nessary training regiments and ship Construction sceduals and seeing too it that they reach their apropraiate way points on time.

Well not all activity ofcorse. Internal Affairs still need to be tended too, its been noted that Cycon families are having an exceptionaly low number of children and the Conciousness is falling behind in population. Steps will need to be taken to accelerate growth rates, most likly the price of Contraceptives will be incressed, New childrens chreches will be ordered and nutrient paste production will be incressed.

Well better Get too it A Functions work is never done.


Portal - I think we should change to either Recycling Tanks OR a Foil Probe. The Foil Probe takes 6 turns (as opesed to the ridiculous 9 for a Cruiser Probe). The Probe Team being built their now cant even get made and reach Bolean in time for catch the boat so A Foil is a better bet because of its high flexibility, also note that it will get the Navy yard bonus. Tanks will take a bit less time and will help grow the base which is sorely needed. If we go Probe we MUST go Tanks next.

Pi Squared - Builds another Impact Cruiser

Bolean Bay - A plan I came up with a bit Ago. Hurry the Crawler that should take 12 energy and save several turns. Also move the worker on to the Nut bonus which should cut around 10 turns off Growth and grow Bolean in 3-4 turns. The Crawler gets mins from the forest and the new worker then can go back to the other Forest and we will have a greatly incressed growth rate and mineral intake.

Matrix - If the Cost to Hurry the Scout patrol is Reasonable such as under 10 I say we do it as that base could be destroyed by a random worm attack.


FORMERS

Former at Binary bastion (65,81) build a farm ware it is.
Former at (67,79) move into Bolean Bay and ReHome their, then if it can move to (69,79) and build a farm and Solar colector.
Former adjacent to Matrix moves to the flat Arid tile adjacent to the Monolith and Builds Forest
Former on the Matrix Nut Bonus builds Farm then solar, looks like we can both have our way Manic



UNITS

Laser Cruiser - Hug the coast of the island and proceed south west, you will need to get near the souther tip of the island. Next turn look at Calico Island and then go south before they see you. Next turn fly by Sea Lurk and see whats lurking their again get out of base radius before your seen and get ready to do Margaritaville on the next turn in the same mannor. By now reinforcments are ariving and the Laser Cruiser has been upgraded (maybe) and it helps attack.

If we want 2 Probes in our attack on Alexandria then we will need to use either the one in Pi Square or Bolean Bay in addition too the one that is between Apolyton and Logic Loop. If we want to use the Pi Square one then it needs to start moving NOW or it can't catch the Boat. And no the Probe Team in Portal wont do either unless we spent a lot on rushing it, which I dont advise.

The first impact Cruiser (Alpha Pi) moves south hugging our coast, try to end up near the fungus on our coast. From their it can scout Margaritaville or Alexandria as needed and return to our coast without being seen.


Side Note

Its been sugjested that we name our units for easier references when the war is thick and heavy. I sugjest that we use base names that got low votes as long as they sound good. For Example Node Runner would be a great ship name (sugjesting that for the Zetaris Cruiser). Perhaps we should open up a unit name thread, though poling them is a bit too much work lets keep it informal.

[MrWhereItsAt]

All of your former and base order changes sound fantastic Impaler. You seem to have covered growing bases earlier than currently expected also, without impacting on their production for the war.

Haven't looked closely enough to call on the war orders, but I sure will...

[Impaler[WrG]]

Just Realized that I forgort about the 2 Formers near Logic Loop. I would recomend that they go down the main road south of Logic Loop and build a Mine on the Coastal Mountinous tile. Their is already road their and our cralwers will be able to extract more minerals their then they would from a Forest. Only thing is we will need Ecological Enginering for their to be much point and thats not a shure thing in the amount of time it would take for 2 formers to make a mine.

On the other hand once we have Ecological Enginering I will want to start a BoreHole in the Flat Barren tile next to Bolean Bay so this is definatly a debatable thing. Other options include building a road directly between Logic Loop and Aurora, chewing up Fungus and assisting the former a bit east of Apolyton Prime that is working on farms and Solars.

[Maniac]

Great intro story, Impaler.

Regarding DBTSverse Portal: to probe foil
Pi Square - consider the 4-1-8 cruiser done.
Boolean Bay - agreed. I'd propose to rush the crawler full. That would cost a bit more than 12 credits though.
Matrix - as less than 10 mins are accumulated the hurry cost will probably be higher than 10.
Former at Binary bastion (65,81) build a farm -
Former at (67,79) -
Former adjacent to Matrix -

Former on the Matrix Nut Bonus builds Farm then solar, looks like we can both have our way Maniac

In the chat Impaler agreed to wait with building a solar collector, as we might get EcoEng and condensers soon. Still a farm though.

Former adjacent to Matrix moves to the flat Arid tile adjacent to the Monolith and Builds Forest

Impaler had valid arguments in favour of this. Another idea of me was to build a road there first to connect Aurora to MM. However that would take eight turns. Unless we could use the bug that if you use "Ctrl+R" to build roads, that you can then build roads on fungus even before CentMed, reducing the time to two turns. Would that be allowed? IIRC it isn't mentioned in the official game rules for this DG, but it is rather obviously a bug. Googlie?

Regarding the LL formers, I proposed the idea of letting them build a road towards MM on the tiles (72.20)->(74.70)with possible fungus removal depending on allowed use of bug->(74.72). (76.72) would already have a road if my above idea for the (76.72) former was followed.

Arguments in favour:
*We'll need to build roads to our eastern bases anyway. Why not do it now, now those two formers have no other urgent tasks?
*In a far past we had planned to build a base on (74.70). If that's still ok, we would have to defungalize that tile anyway.

[Maniac]

Some quick comments before I have to leave and prolly won't have access to a computer for the next 18 hours:

Impaler, I agree with the war acceleration plan you posted in the orders thread, and will execute it tomorrow of no other info turns up that would require yet another change of plan. One question though: should we really hurry Node Runner in Zetaris for 34 credits? We have 203 credits now. 65 will be used for the acceleration. 19 for hurrying the BB crawler. You would like to hurry Beta Pi. I would like to upgrade Love Boat (90 credits ). Then there's a possible SE switch to democracy in the near future (40 credits). There's the matter of paying the Hive for their infiltrator info and possibly PUT a bit for EcoEng. And we might also need some cash to rush some defensive unit in a captured base and keep our energy reserves on an acceptable level (IIRC the size of your energy reserve also influences the cost for others to mind control one of our units or bases). Since Node Runner will be too late anyhow for an attack MY 2150, is it worth it using our precious cash to hurry it?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Internal Affairs: 2150

Zetaris - Hurry Crusier 10 Credits

Portal - Begin moving scout patrol to Pi Square (in the event of emergency upgrading we want the unit with Higher Morale, Pi's low morale scout will go to Portal next turn)

Logic Loop - Set new production to Crawler (If we are going to pop the Ocean Pod then switch to a Net Node durring the poping so that we may potentialy get this building free, if no poping or somethine else comes out of Pod then Return production to Crawler)

Bolean Bay - New Production Probe Defence, move the new crawler east and move the crawler that is their south, have both crawl minerals.

Aurora - New Production, Unarmored Cruiser Transport

Mythical Matrix - Hurry Scout Patrol (full)

Formers

(74,66) move to mine and assist
(70,56) If we get a deal for Eco Eng worked out then move to (71,59), if not then either (68,58) farm and solar or if BioGenetics will be avalible soon (69,61) and farm.

Military Movments

Move transport to (68,76) (NUT bonus north of Bolean Bay) load 2 Probe Defence, 1 marine and 1 Amphibus Rover.

Love Boat - move to ware Cruiser is now (trying to peak at as much of the water to the west as possible)

Cruiser scout Alexandria and return to fungus.


Or if Pod is Poped, use Impact Cruiser to Pop and Love Boat to attack any IOD that my emerge and scout with Cruiser as above. If swept away - Return to withing Alexandria area, but just out of sight. If Duplicate Cruiser, move duplicate south to within striking distance of Casablanca and Alexandria.

[Maniac]

Zetaris, Portal, BB, Aur, Love Boat, transport and Alpha Pi - I agree with you.
There are a few other points I'd like to discuss with you:

Logic Loop - Crawler

I'm heavily in favour of crawlers, but will 1 impact rover, 2 impact marines and 1 plasma garrison suffice as land forces to conquer PEACE?

Mythical Matrix - Hurry Scout Patrol (full)

Won't that scout patrol be finished anyway in MY 2150, no matter of we hurry it now or not? Next year 6 of the 8 required minerals will be accumulated, and MM is producing 2 per year.

(74,66) move to mine and assist

Won't it be more efficient to build the road first?
If I understand correctly:
MY 2149: first former moves to mineral square; all movement points (MPs) are spent
MY 2150: first former starts helping to construct mine, second former finished road on (74.66)
MY 2151: second former moves to mineral square along the new road and also helps with mine.

But if we build the road first:
MY 2149: both formers build and finish the road on (74.66)
MY 2150: both formers only use 1/3 of their (MPs) to move to the mineral square and can already start on the mine in the same turn.

(70,56) If we get a deal for Eco Eng worked out then move to (71,59), if not then either (68,58) farm and solar or if BioGenetics will be avalible soon (69,61) and farm.

What would you build on (71.59)? As to building a farm on (68.56?), I guess that will be our eternal nut-min conflict. But here there is the extra circumstance that Pi Square will grow to size 5 in 10 turns, while we don't have drone facilities to control the new drone. How about we therefore plant a forest on (69.57) and even move the Pi Square 2-1-2 worker on (69.61) to there to slow down growth?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Agree with Mythical Matrix and road construction. That would indeed be better.

If we want to keep War Production up for a bit longer in Logic Loop then lets build an armored Impact Marine their instead, LL should be able to finish that before the next Transport leaves and it will prove very versitile. Crawler can be made after the war is wrapped up.

I think we should let Pi Grow. We realy need growth and the extra worker will be handy. We can probly get another military unit out of the Base before we need to switch to a Hologram Theather. As for the surrounding terraforming I planed an Echlon Mirron on the (68,56) and solars on the surounding lower elevations. As we now know that their wont be any Eco Eng in the near future I propose we put a farm and solar on (66,56) this will provide 2/1/1 and eventualy 4/1/2 when Condensors and Echlons are built nearby.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
If we want to keep War Production up for a bit longer in Logic Loop then lets build an armored Impact Marine their instead, LL should be able to finish that before the next Transport leaves and it will prove very versitile. Crawler can be made after the war is wrapped up.

Personally I don't really see the point of a 4~-2-1, certainly not since we have plasma armour. Would you use that unit for attack? Then why not build a 4~-1-1? Would you use that unit for defence? Then why not build a 1-3-1?

I think we should let Pi Grow. We realy need growth and the extra worker will be handy. We can probly get another military unit out of the Base before we need to switch to a Hologram Theather. As for the surrounding terraforming I planed an Echlon Mirron on the (68,56) and solars on the surounding lower elevations. As we now know that their wont be any Eco Eng in the near future I propose we put a farm and solar on (66,56) this will provide 2/1/1 and eventualy 4/1/2 when Condensors and Echlons are built nearby.

I guess you already know my aversion to farm & solar collectors. I think we should have a thorough longterm discussion and democratic poll about it, as our terraform decisions now influence our terraform strategy later. Personally I support a heavy forestation-boreholes plan a bit like Blake proposes here, or as a second choice Drogue's plan, which IIRC was in the long term building lots of boreholes and between them farms & condensers to harvest nutrients. We don't need solar collectors or echelon mirrors in such strategies.

Therefore I heavily support planting forests over solar collectors. Though I personally still consider it a time-consuming and thus not so good terraforming choice to build farms & solar collectors on 1->2000 metres while we have so many others things that need to be done with our few formers, they at least produce more than forests on that height. But below 1000 metres I consider solar collectors just a waste of precious former time. Forests produce 1-2-1. Farm & solar collectors 2-1-1. Personally, unless the base nearby has little nutrients, I consider one mineral more valuable than one nutrient, making a forest a better choice. But even if you consider the two equally valuable, a forest is still by far a better choice, because you can plant forest on two-and-a-half squares in the same former time that it takes to build farm & solar collector on only one tile.
The argument that forests require much less former time is also my counterargument against your argument that eventually in a far future soil enriched condensered solar collected and echelon mirrored terrain will be more productive than forests with tree farm and hybrid forest. To support that argument I'd like to refer to Ogie's excellent terraforming article in CGN's SMAC Academy. There his numbers prove that a forest heavy approach produces about 33% less energy than a pure condenser-borehole or echelon mirror-heavy approach, but also that it produces about ~25% more minerals and above all *~80%* less terraforming time.

Ogie concludes like this:

Conclusions - Each style has its benefits and weaknesses. For example one can see the speed of the forestation approach is a significant strength and by the time the game roles around to the hybrid forest time period chances are your looking to expand via acquisition verses internal building. So this is a great means to get up and running quickly with an eye to conquering in the mid game.

If you wish to be a pure builder then you probably are looking more to the advanced t-forming option despite its heavy t-forming requirements it is doable and allows a tremendous late game advantage (best of all options for the late game). But chances are as a consequence of this approach you’ll be focussed internally and tend to neglect the outside world.

Many people have said that we are moving to a warmonger direction in this game, and that this game will probably or hopefully never last to the end-game, so these opinions support using the heavy forest (combined with boreholes à la Blake's suggestion) approach over a condenser or echelon mirror-heavy approach as our terraform strategy. What do you think?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Conserning the 4~2-1 Marines.

If we only build 1 unit in LL before the next transport sails then the armored Marines will be the best single unit we can reasonably produce in that time. Its armor would alow it to risist virtualy anything PEACE can throw at it even after they prototype lasers, our unarmored Marines make poor defenders as do our Cruisers. I figure we might as well play it safe and make the investment of 1 extra mineral row and getting a unit that can serve double duty. Especialy if its the only unit LL will contribute to the next transport.

We could on the other hand make Impact Marines like we have been making and just have that additional turn for making a crawler or Base improvment. We could also make 2 units that are 2 rows in cost if we spent some credits to hurry each they can make the transport (I am assuming they and the transport move in 2152. The transport should need a 32 credit hurry to do this, any sooner wouldn't be worth it IMHO). Keep in mind though that we already have a Plasma Garrison, a Probe Team to be built in Bolean, and a Probe team that will return to us after Infiltrating PEACE that will want to ride in this next transport.

If you feel you can prosicute the war fine with unarmored Marines, then I will defere to your judgment on this one Manic as I am not a military function.


With Regards to terraforming, I have started a Poll as you sugjested. The turn is aproatching fast though and I doupt we will have much time to get this worked out (unless the University blows the time limit AGAIN!).

[Impaler[WrG]]

Internal Affairs 2150 (first draft)

Apolyton Prime - New production Impact Marines 4~1-1

Binary Bastion - Hurry 6 Credits

Zetaris - New production Recycling Tanks. Any new navel unit started in Zetaris will likly not be able to reach PEACe territory untill 2156-57 atwhich point the war should be mostly wrapped up, or in a stage when infantry is more desirable to over their last ditch defences on land bases in the extream West of their territory. If additonal war production is desired I would recomend Marines or a Transport followed by the Tanks.

Pi - Hurry 18 Credits, move scout patrol to Portal, move new scout patrol into Portal but do not Re-Home

Bolean Bay - March crawlers southward to (71,81) and (70,80) eventualy they should both be in the area out of base radius so workers or new crawlers can quickly access the more northern forests.

Move Colony Pod and Scout North

Move the 2 formers on the the Zetaris mineral Bonus and assist Mine building.

[laurentius]

Looks good Impaler.

I think tho that we should hurry Pi more. We need that ship