Internal Affairs Function's Office

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Tentative IAF production proposals for CyCon

It would probably be better to post some tentative orders before the arrives. That way we won't be faced with situation that the PF is playing the turn while the IAF is writing orders. Also it'll give us more time to discuss and poll matters in a relaxed way without any time pressure.

- DBTSverse Portal: Seaformer

Okay, will be finished in eight years.

- Pi Square: Hurry crawler production, costs 7 or 8 energy

- Triplex: start with Plasma Garrison (side note, why not building Trance Plasma Garrisons? Costs are the same).

I'll hold a little poll about it. If we won't build some more probe teams in Triplex though, I'd suggest to start building some in Apolyton Prime or so.

- Zetaris: 1 mineral will be lost by changing production to crawler

No problem anymore I guess, now Zetaris got a b-drone who we need to give some beer and entertainment.

- Calico: Trance Scout

Ok.

- Abort Retry Fail(ed): Command Center or Recreation Commons.

Set to rec commons. Production there isn't really splendid there, so not many units would roll off the production band.

- Binary Bastion: Hurry production, will cost 18 energy I think.

Will do so, especially since that base currently isn't producing any minerals at all. Rec Commons after this crawler?

- And/Or Gate: Research Hospital, in combination with that rover on 84,58 to 81,57 (pod popping). If no production finish, switch to colony pod.

Just for the record, other options would be tree farm (since we're running 80% economy) or that expensive military unit - we'd prototype missile weapon too that way in the small chance that we get lucky. Though research hospital is good for me too.

Some unit movements:

Ok.

[Impaler[WrG]]

A few ideas I had.

Logic Loop, Apolyton Prime, Pi Square and Bolean Bay would be the best base to build TreeFarms in as they have extensive forests and High Energy outputs and the Pych bost of a TreeFarm would likly create an additional talent.

We should look to create more formers and focus on building Mines in Rocky terrain (idealy places that already have roads), we can then move Crawlers on to these new mines and double our mineral colection wial simultaniously freeing up forest to we worked by hand by our growing population. Their are many great mine locations in the south around the Bolean Bay, crawlers are nearby and formers can be produced in Logic Loop at 1 a turn.

Mythical Matrix need a crawler to harvest the Nut bonus to the north. This will free up a worker to work the forest in the south to give the base some desent mineral output which has been stagnated for quite some time now. Sugjest we make one in Aurora or send one from some other part of Trantor (southern landmass).

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
It would probably be better to post some tentative orders before the arrives.

Yes, the other factions posted their turns earlier then expected, pls remember that I have a RL as well.
But I'll check the turn progress better in future.

Originally posted by Maniac
I'll hold a little poll about it. If we won't build some more probe teams in Triplex though,

Changed my vote (just typing it here if you check this thread earlier then the poll). I agree to build a probe team now, but I like to build Garrisons later. I insist on that for having to weak defenses. Especially in the light of that Hive Cutter.

Originally posted by Maniac
Will do so, especially since that base currently isn't producing any minerals at all. Rec Commons after this crawler?

Ok for me.

Originally posted by Maniac
Just for the record, other options would be tree farm (since we're running 80% economy) or that expensive military unit - we'd prototype missile weapon too that way in the small chance that we get lucky. Though research hospital is good for me too.

Ok for the prototype missile unit. Didn't check on the costs for military units since I thought those suggestions should come from the EAF for his hardware production.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Logic Loop, Apolyton Prime, Pi Square and Bolean Bay would be the best base to build TreeFarms

That's a good idea, I endorse it, but LL will have to finish that interceptor first. That has priority now since the unit transfer failed for some bug. BB can start it after the finishing of NA. Pi Square I would let it finish the seaformer first. That is also what we need.

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
We should look to create more formers and focus on building Mines in Rocky terrain (idealy places that already have roads),

Yes, currently we're working in that direction near Apolyton Prime and Zetaris.

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Mythical Matrix need a crawler to harvest the Nut bonus to the north. This will free up a worker to work the forest in the south to give the base some desent mineral output which has been stagnated for quite some time now.

Since we're collecting 'huge' amounts of energy, I suppose it's faster to quick build the RC production.

It looks like we have to make a priority list of what bases' production should be quick finished first.
More work...

[Impaler[WrG]]

Cant you switch control of this bothersome Air Unit next turn? We dont want to waste a bunch of Energy on making a Protype if we dont have too.

Can Googlie do anythink to correct the Bug in question like loading up our save and editing it some how?

[GeoModder]

You have to talk to Maniac for that. He already warned Googlie, wo has done some testing. He responded negatively for being able to transfer unit control at first instance. I'm not sure when, even if, Maniac plans to quick build that proto. We'll see.

[Maniac]

Any IAF suggestions for next year?

[GeoModder]

Thus PUT will receive 93 energy from CC? Well, I take a look what we can do with that...

Most bases are still under production...

Not much suggestions possible, but I'll try

[Impaler[WrG]]

If all goes acording to plan I will be back online next Friday and can return to regular Internal Affairs work. Likly though you will need to do this turn without my help.

I sugjest we start Tree Farms in as many of the Core Cycon Bases as possible. Logic Loop can scrap its Battle Ogree to build its Farm easily. Formers and Crawlers would be are next big priorites as we are going to need replace Crawlers used in constructing that next Secret Project. If their are still any captured Peace bases in need of pacification thats also a big priority, I hear some of them are starving.

[GeoModder]

Only one starved (Mega Reboot). The rest is growing or static. Calico has pacifism drones due to a rehomed cruiser that is outside our borders (northern part of atlantic sea)

I guess scrapping that Ogre is decided in your term, since it will take a turn to collect 10+ minerals in that base. Tomorrow I make a full proposal list.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler
Logic Loop can scrap its Battle Ogree to build its Farm easily.

I guess you know my opinion about scrapping that perfectly healthy and military still up-to-date unit. So I'd prefer a poll about that.

Originally posted by GeoModder
Thus PUT will receive 93 energy from CC? Well, I take a look what we can do with that...

I transmitted 90 ec, so CC would at least have some spare cash left. As for hurrying PUT production, I guess the only thing we can do is hurry the Cairns hospital production. But in the CC turn we should receive some 300 credits, so we can already start planning for that.

Btw, a question about the constant reshuffling of PUT crawlers and workers: Is it ok if I rehome the (83.29) crawler to Sunshine Coast, and send the new Sunshine crawler en route to the condenser on (76.34)? That will increase nutrient production in Sunshine and let it grow to size 3 fast. Once it is size 3, I was thinking - under the principle that for military production a few high-mineral bases are better than many low-mineral bases - we could let it work all three boreholes, get a very productive base as a result, build an aerospace complex and start producing air units.

[GeoModder]

PUT tentative orders MY 2158:

Gold Coast: start former production. I like some spare formers to build more sensor arrays in the north of the island.
Gardens Point: start Interceptor production
Kelvin Grove and Carseldine: Continue producing Plasma Garrisons.

I suggest moving the former in Gardens Point north and build sensor arrays on the top tiles.
For your suggestions about the Sunshine Crawler, I agree, as is with your plan to make that base a production center.

Some base site suggestions for the new cp's when they're ready:

93,37
86,31
87,45

Edit: CyCon Tentative orders MY 2158

Base productions:

- Binary Bastion: Recreation Commons
- Boolean Bay: start Neural Amplifier
- Liar's Lair: trance scout
- Logic Loop and Pi Square: Tree Farm
- Zetaris: Sea Former or Probe Foil

Hurry productions:

Rec Commons in MegabyteVille and Mythical Matrix

Unit upgrade:

Scout patrol to Trance Plasma Steel Garrison in Triplex

[Maniac]

I've started making a list of possibly hurry orders and see how cost-effective they are.

To calculate the approximate credit hurry cost, I do the following for PUT:
(facility mineral cost - 10 - (5/4 * base mineral production))*2
And the following for CyCon:
(facility mineral cost - 10 - (11/8 * base mineral production))*2

The reasoning is like this:
"facility mineral cost": Duh!
"-10": I guess we won't hurry unless at least 10 minerals are already accumulated.
"*2": It's two credits to hurry one mineral.
"x/x*base mineral production": If for example base production is 5 and you hurry something of 40 minerals, you only need to hurry up to 35 minerals. The other 5 will be added by the base mineral production and the facility will still be complete. So we can subtract the base production of the hurry cost. That doesn't explain the "5/4" and "11/8" though. That's to take into account the money we get from the stockpile energy bug. For PUT we get back in credits half the base mineral production whenever a facility is hurried, and for CyCon - due to the PEG - we get back 3/4. So that makes hurrying cheaper.

This list is calculated using the MY 2157 presend save. Costs change constantly of course due to changing base mineral production, and I can't predict everything perfectly. The list is of course not complete. Facilities that didn't seem very lucrative at first sight, I didn't bother to calculate more thoroughly.

PUT hurry calculations are presuming 70% labs energy allocation.

Kelvin Grove:
Tree Farm. Credit investment: 161. Return per year: +4 nuts, -1 credits (2 credit gain minus maintenance cost), +1 psych.

Gold Coast:
Hologram Theatre. Investment: 56. Return: one worker freed. Let's say it works a forest: +2 nuts, +2 mins, +3 labs, -3 credits, -1 psych.
Research Hospital. Investment: 164. Return: +12 labs, -3 credits.

Cairns:
Tree Farm. Investment: 170. Return: +4 nuts, -2 credits, +2 psych.

Caboolture:
Hologram Theatre. Investment: 64. Return: +2 nuts, +2 mins, -2 credits, +5 labs, -1 psych.
Research Hospital. Investment: 172. Return: +11 labs, -3 credits.

Other facilities that can't be easily expressed in economic benefits are aerospace complexes and a hab complex for Gardens Point. We should also keep an eye if it's possible to pop boom some PUT bases. Currently we have insufficient nutrients to do so, but after we get some tree farms it might become possible.

CyCon hurry calculations are presuming 80% economy energy allocation.

Logic Loop:
Hologram Theatre. Investment: 44. Return: With a hologram theatre this base could produce non-SAM aircraft without causing a drone riot. Without we'd need two doctors, which would cost 4 nuts, 3 mins and 3 credits.
Tree Farm. Investment: 152. Return: +3 nuts, +9 credits, +3 psych.

Apolyton Prime:
Tree Farm. Investment: 162. Return: +2 nuts, +7 credits, +3 psych.

Triplex:
Hologram Theatre. Investment: 54. Return: +1 nut, +2 mins, +1 credit.
Tree Farm. Investment: 162. Return: +4 credits, +2 psych.

Pi Square:
Tree Farm. Investment: 172. Return: +4 nuts, +6 credits, +3 psych.

Aurora:
Tree Farm. Investment: 178. Return: +4 nuts, +2 credits, +2 psych.

Megabyteville:
Rec Commons. Investment: 32. Return: +5 nuts, +1 credit, -2 psych.

Thermal Tassagrad:
Rec Commons. Investment: 42. Return: +3 nuts, +5 credits, -1 psych.

Mega Reboot:
Rec Commons. Investment: 44. Return: +3 nuts, +4 credits, -1 psych.

Calico Island:
Rec Commons. Investment: 42. Return: +3 nuts, +2 mins, -2 psych.

Abort Retry Fail(ed):
Rec Commons. Investment: 48. Return: +2 nuts, +2 mins, -2 psych.

Pamplona:
Rec Commons. Investment: 44. Return: +1 nuts, +2 mins, +4 credits, -2 psych.

Mythical Matrix:
Rec Commons. Investment: 44. Return: +1 nuts, +2 mins, +2 credits, -2 psych.

Casablanca:
Rec Commons. Investment: 44. Return: +2 nuts, +2 mins, +5 credits, -1 psych.

Binary Bastion:
Rec Commons. Investment: 42. Return: +1 nuts, +2 mins, +2 credits, -2 psych.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Just a few notes from a largely clueless member of the public:

Caboolture Holo Theater is the best bet, whereas for the Gold Coast a Research Hospital looks rather nice. A little hard to say too definitely without knowing whether extra pop could actually be used effectively in these bases (and others).

Logic Loop Tree Farm at some point looks too good to ignore.
(LOTS of credits and some nuts, with no downsides)

Megabyteville Rec Commons is an excellent choice for an early rush as long as it can handle the pop/could use new pop for good tiles.

Thermal Tass, Pamplona and Casablanca are, of the low-cost options at the end, clearly overall the best and should thus take some precedence over the others of around 42-44 EC rushes.

What do you think we need? Some bass could do with more pop, as there will be good land around to work, and they may be able to grow without Drones probs, whereas extra nuts for other places would be counterproductive. Also, will any of these -whatever Psych going to cause extra Drones to watch out for, or is it just a case of 'Build Rec Commons and thus we no longer need that Doctor', in which case -Psych is a bit misleading, as it won;t harm us in any way.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Gold Coast: start former production. I like some spare formers to build more sensor arrays in the north of the island.

Okay. Does that also count if Hive declares war on CC? And how about the Daintree & Longreach CP production in case of war?

Gardens Point: start Interceptor production

How about a missile needlejet instead, as according to the previous plan to attack a base on Yardarn Island? Due to having two talents, Gardens Point is currently also our only base that can produce non-SAM aircraft without causing drone riots, so I'd say we need to make the most use possible from that.

Kelvin Grove and Carseldine: Continue producing Plasma Garrisons.

Most definitely agreed!

I suggest moving the former in Gardens Point north and build sensor arrays on the top tiles.

How about a sensor array on (75.33) to protect Townsville, Cape York and Daintree, and another one on (79.39) to protect Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove?

- Binary Bastion: Recreation Commons

- Boolean Bay: start Neural Amplifier

- Liar's Lair: trance scout

- Logic Loop and Pi Square: Tree Farm
How about waiting until we have enough cash to hurry it at once? From the calculations I made above rec commons hurry orders, it would be more profitable to hurry those all first, so how about building some (sea) formers, crawlers, probe teams, transports or whatever else in the meanwhile while we're hurrying more profitable projects first?

Rec Commons in MegabyteVille and Mythical Matrix

MBV most definitely , but IIRC MM hasn't accumulated 10 mins yet. Better wait one more year then.

Unit upgrade:

Scout patrol to Trance Plasma Steel Garrison in Triplex

Why now?

[QUOTE] Originally posted by MWIA

I agree with your notes on what projects to hurry first.

What do you think we need? Some bass could do with more pop, as there will be good land around to work, and they may be able to grow without Drones probs, whereas extra nuts for other places would be counterproductive.

IIRC the rec commons solve the drone problems, making extra nuts no longer a problem.

Also, will any of these -whatever Psych going to cause extra Drones to watch out for, or is it just a case of 'Build Rec Commons and thus we no longer need that Doctor', in which case -Psych is a bit misleading, as it won;t harm us in any way.

It's indeed due to turning a doctor back to a worker. So I'd suggest ignoring the psych effects. I just added them for completeness' sake.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
Okay. Does that also count if Hive declares war on CC?

Definitely!! As said when we acquired control of PUT, it will be the prime target of Drones/Hive.

Originally posted by Maniac
How about a missile needlejet instead, as according to the previous plan to attack a base on Yardarn Island?

If you think drones are under control in that base.

Originally posted by Maniac
How about a sensor array on (75.33) to protect Townsville, Cape York and Daintree, and another one on (79.39) to protect Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove?

75,33 is a good location, 79,39 I advice delay till the north is scattered with sensors. I suggest them on 75,27 and 82,26. Futher more I advice to change production from crawlers to formers in Townsville and Cape York to help build sensors.

Originally posted by Maniac
- Logic Loop and Pi Square: Tree Farm
How about waiting until we have enough cash to hurry it at once? From the calculations I made above rec commons hurry orders, it would be more profitable to hurry those all first, so how about building some (sea) formers, crawlers, probe teams, transports or whatever else in the meanwhile while we're hurrying more profitable projects first?

So you suggest delaying building tree farms till ALL RC's in conquered bases are quickbuild? I can live with that, but Impaler probably won't. Sea formers instead ok, I prefer to build probe teams in bases with CC in. Idea for Logic Loop? 2 turns quick building it? Else Crawlers for LL or a TF.

Originally posted by Maniac MBV most definitely , but IIRC MM hasn't accumulated 10 mins yet. Better wait one more year then.

If only one RC is quick builded, then a TF can be started and quick builded next turn. The other bases with RC's under construction are only slowly accumulating 10 minerals, thus their is a energy surplus next turn...

Originally posted by Maniac
Unit upgrade:

Why now?

I like to send that unit to the front line because it has a higher morale (opportunity comes when a transport collects the probes). And upgraded it is of more use there. Triplex can always build a new defender since it has a CC.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I dont see any reason we cant be hurrying Rec Commons in our Concoured bases and TreeFarms in Our Core Cycon bases at the same time.

Pi Square, Logic Loop and Apolton Prime are the first places we want tree Farms as they will be imediatly profitable in energy Credits (enough to get a return on Energy Credit investment alone in perhaps a decade not to mention Pych and Nut bonuses).

With 300 Credits to work with we can Hurry 2 TreeFarms a turn or a greater number of Rec Commons.

If we scrap that Ogree as I sugjest then we can save aproimatly 100 Credits (its worth 5 rows of minerals when scraped).

We should scrap that Ogree because its reatched tecnological obsolesense, we have the tecnology to create units of equal fire power which will be REPARABLE after they recive battle damage unlike the Ogree which is a very poor combat unit now. Not to mention the Ogree is deep in our territory and could not be brought to any likly frontline area in a resonable period of time. Thus its only use is as a pile of minerals which should be invested imediatly rather then alowed to lay around unused.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
I dont see any reason we cant be hurrying Rec Commons in our Concoured bases and TreeFarms in Our Core Cycon bases at the same time.

The reason is we don't have enough credits to do it all at once.

Pi Square, Logic Loop and Apolton Prime are the first places we want tree Farms as they will be imediatly profitable in energy Credits (enough to get a return on Energy Credit investment alone in perhaps a decade not to mention Pych and Nut bonuses).

Have a look at one of my posts above where I made the calculations. Even in the most profitable base to build a tree farm, Logic Loop, it will still take more than a decade to win back the investment, while for ALL rec commons it takes less than ten years to win back the investment. The choice seems very obvious as far as I can see.

GeoModder:

The other bases with RC's under construction are only slowly accumulating 10 minerals, thus their is a energy surplus next turn...

I was thinking that for some bases we could perhaps hurry them a bit so that by next turn they have accumulated ten minerals, and we can hurry them then at the normal cost. Even with the extra cost it will still be more lucrative than the tree farms.

Anyway, personally I'd propose a poll for Logic Loop and Pi Square. I guess you know my opinion we need many more probes if we want to attempt a probe attack on the Hive or Drones. As for only building probes in bases with command centers, I think I recently have discovered that no matter the SE settings, the minimum morale for probe teams is always disciplined. This means that in bases without children's creches or command centers, normally morale should be very green under wealth, but due to this probe rule, it switches to disciplined. Now have a look at a base with a command center and a creche. Morale under wealth is normally very green, but due to the Creche and command center it switches to disciplined, but not higher. Result: still the same morale. So we can build equally powerful probes in any base we want so it seems.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
I was thinking that for some bases we could perhaps hurry them a bit so that by next turn they have accumulated ten minerals, and we can hurry them then at the normal cost. Even with the extra cost it will still be more lucrative than the tree farms.

That's a trick I didn't know, I can find myself in this.

Originally posted by Maniac
I think I recently have discovered that no matter the SE settings, the minimum morale for probe teams is always disciplined. This means that in bases without children's creches or command centers, normally morale should be very green under wealth, but due to this probe rule, it switches to disciplined.

If you have tested this, and it is like you say, then I have no objections against building probes in other bases. I didn't know how and where those were build, so I assumed the same rules for regular units.
So this means then that the rank of newly builded probe teams depends on your SE probe level and the number of probe increasing techs you have researched.

[GeoModder]

Tentative orders for civilian units:
(As temporary IAF till Impaler's back)

Former on 70.66: construct mine
Former on 68.60: construct solar collector
Former on 76.56: plant forest
Unity Rover on 80.58: to A/O Gate
Former on 81.65: construct road
Formers on 78.66: construct mine on 74.66
Formers on 79.77: construct mine on 69.75

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Former on 70.66: construct mine
Former on 68.60: construct solar collector
Former on 76.56: plant forest
Unity Rover on 80.58: to A/O Gate
Former on 81.65: construct road
Formers on 78.66: construct mine on 74.66
Formers on 79.77: construct mine on 69.75

There are a few coordinates where there isn't a former.

"Former on 68.60: construct solar collector"
It would cost 6 former turns, and the gain would be 1 energy. Wouldn't it be more efficient to build mines or plant forests instead? The return in extra productivity would be much higher.

[GeoModder]

Do as you see fit then.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I favor mines in rocky tiles for the imediate future, idealy they shoud be built by pairs of formers to speed up construction then crawled fr 4 minerals. Many of our bases could become more efficient production centers if they could more rapidly acumulate the 10 minerals needed to bring Hurry Costs down to resonable levels.

Also consider that we shuld begin building Condensors on our many Nut Bonues to rake in the Huge Nut outputs this type of terraforming can bring in. Nut production should be a high priority if we have the long term goal of aquiring the Cloning Vats.

[GeoModder]

Impaler, I hope you can take over IAF the next few days, as I won't have time for it this week.

Maniac, in case Impaler doesn't show in his office, do the IAF as you see fit, please.

I will be busy enough with MAF.

[Maniac]

No problem. Mostly it's just continuing to build mines anyway.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Have no fear Impaler is here!

Here are my tenative orders for Univerity

Cairns - New Production Crawler
Gold Coast - Hurry Formers or Switch Production to a AiroPlex (depending on Military needs)
Gargens Point - Start on Hab Complex, turn a 2/2/2 worker into a Librarian to slow growth 1 turn
Kelvin - Missle Rover or other Military Unit
Carseldine - Missle Rover or other Military Unit
Cape York - Hurry Formers 8 Credits
Daintree - Crawler or Former
Caboolture - Hurry Crawler 12 Credits
Townsville - Hurry (amount to be determined)
Long Reach - Hurry Colony Pod 12 Credits

Formers

(78/46) move South: Road
(83/35) move NE to (84/34): Mine
(82/32): Road
(76/28): Sensor
(75/31) move SE to (76/32): Mine

Crawlers

(75/31) Switch Home to Townsville, Return to Mine
(80/34) Switch Home to Daintree, Return to Forest and Crawl minerals.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Have no fear Impaler is here!

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Here are my tenative orders for Univerity

Gold Coast - Hurry Formers or Switch Production to a AiroPlex (depending on Military needs)
Kelvin - Missle Rover or other Military Unit
Carseldine - Missle Rover or other Military Unit

When the AC in sun coast is finished I'm happy for the moment.
I prefer Plasma Garrisons for Kelvin and Cars.
First defense!!

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Formers

(78/46) move South: Road
(83/35) move NE to (84/34): Mine
(82/32): Road
(76/28): Sensor
(75/31) move SE to (76/32): Mine

78.46: can PUT build roads in fungus? I thought Centauri Empathy was needed for that?
82.32: not necassary IMO
76.28: sensor --> for MAF purposes, I prefer 75.27, and another at 82.26. That way they look further ahead, and don't come in eachothers radius.
75.31: I planned to bring that one north as well to assist in sensor construction on 75.25. Those 2 formers on 75.33 are ready in 2 turns, why not use them for the mine construction?


Edit: Btw, Impaler, please use the Planetary University Bureau thread for posting about PUT domestic affairs.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Deleted - sorry realized that wont work without a higher growth rate.

[GeoModder]

A question, how about building an AC and CC in CyCon now? I propose in Apolyton Prime and Logic Loop

[Impaler[WrG]]

We basicaly have 4 Choices

Focus on Tree Farms, Military Units, Crawlers or Net Nodes in the Core Cycon territory. I would prefer TreeFarms and Crawlers followed by Nodes as we need to start closing the Build gap between us and our enemies. I would rather hold off on military production untill we are shure that war is inevitable.